Helloes.

Me and the gang really like Warhammer 40K and Fantasy, and being able to roleplay in its glorious Universe is a Emperor sent blessing...

But sometimes we feel like playing humans, all the time, is just a little bit lacklustering. Especcially when we all know there are so many cool races out there in the galaxy to purge, I mean play.

To cut short: Please, why not release an edition where you can actually play more then just humans. LIke this little list?

• Abhumans: Descendants of humans, modified in various ways by mutation and the environmental conditions on the planets on which they have evolved.

• Beastmen: A human subspecies characterized by bestial features, normally heads and legs.
• Ogryn: A human subspecies characterized by larger muscles and smaller brains.
• Ratling: A subspecies of human who are short and specialize in sniping.

• Barghesi: Aggressive race near the Grendl stars. No other data is known.
• Caradochian: Winged race often appearing as mercenaries.
• Chuffian: Use a characteristic Power Maul weapon. No other data is known.
• C'tan: The race that doomed the Necrontyr to live eternally as machines (Necrons).
• Demiurg: A race of short humanoids, allied with the Tau. May or may not be related to Squats.
• Deamon: Foul creatures made entirely of Warp material. The favourite servants of the Chaos Gods.
• Drugh: Large larval invertebrates with advanced psionic capability. Stem from the world of Pyrus I.
• Enslavers: Parasitical warp-based lifeforms that look for psychic hosts to transform into living Warp portals.
• Galg: Green, scaled, frog-like creatures rumored to be Tau-allies.
• Galthite: Xenos from the Oenorian Inner Systems.
• Hrud: A race of near-invisible scavenger aliens who infest several areas of the galaxy. Commonly considered to be little more than vermin.
• Jokaero: Resemble orangutans. They are famous for their instinctive technical brilliance.
• Kathap: A race using what appears to be organic weaponry.
• Khrave: Alien mind-eaters.
• K'Nib: Described as "festering clawed fiends", have 10 limbs.
• Kroot: Reptilian hunter species allied with the Tau.
• Lacrymole: A race of shape-shifters.
• Loxatl: Amphibian quadrupeds who communicate through infrasound. Grey-skinned and foul-smelling. They are known to smell like rancid milk and mint.
• Nicassar: A psychic race allied with the Tau.
• Necrontyr: The race that became the Necrons.
• Nekulli: Little known about the Nekulli race, apart from their Whisperlance technology.
• Old Ones: An ancient race who fought the C'tan.
• Psy-Gore: From Perseus; makers of crystalline firearms.
• Q'Orl: An insectoid species, whose empire is centered on the swarmworld of Loqiit.
• Scythian: Martial species devoted to the art of combat.
• Slann: An ancient reptilian species, connected to the Old Ones.
• Stryxis: Nomadic creatures said to resemble a humanoid canine embryo, with no young or gender differences ever reported. Voracious traders, their culture is eccentric and obscure, although they despise the Eldar .
• Tallerian: Reptiloid mercenary allies of the Tau.
• Thyrrus: A squid-like race with color-changing skin.
• Umbra: A species of floating spheres with a hard, black carapace.
• Vespid: Winged insectoids allied with the Tau.
• Viskeon: Huge, muscled humanoid creatures, when part of their body is cut off, a fetus forms from it, feeding off its nutrients to eventually become a fully formed Viskeon.
• Xenarch: An isolationist, Warp-worshiping species from the Galactic north.
• Yu'vath: A race of warp-worshipping sorcerer-slavers from the Koronus Expanse, apparently annihilated in the 39th millennium during the Angevin Crusade, although remnants of their empire persist.
• Zoat: Large, strange, centaur-like creatures that were conquered by the Tyranids. The Zoats were used as a slave race for the hive mind and its followers, and many revolts by the Zoats (brutally put down by the Tyranids) led to the near extinction of their race. Eradicated by the Imperium upon their arrival in Human space.

I know it is a copy/paste from Wikipedia - but it just shines to the possibilities then just play a human. All the time.

While a 40k RPG where you play as Xeno and Chaos races WOULD be interesting, it really has no place in Dark Heresy. DH is a game with very specific theme and purpose, and playing as the things you're supposed to be fighting hugely undermines that.

It's also a matter of what Games Workshop will let FFG do.

Helloes.

Me and the gang really like Warhammer 40K and Fantasy, and being able to roleplay in its glorious Universe is a Emperor sent blessing...

But sometimes we feel like playing humans, all the time, is just a little bit lacklustering. Especcially when we all know there are so many cool races out there in the galaxy to purge, I mean play.

<snip>

I know it is a copy/paste from Wikipedia - but it just shines to the possibilities then just play a human. All the time.

I think we got us a heretic here. This post is seething with heresy. Somebody needs to send the Inquisitor to speak with him.

Playing as some of those would be wrong. C'tan and Enslavers for example.

While a 40k RPG where you play as Xeno and Chaos races WOULD be interesting, it really has no place in Dark Heresy. DH is a game with very specific theme and purpose, and playing as the things you're supposed to be fighting hugely undermines that.

It's also a matter of what Games Workshop will let FFG do.

I'm not so sure that abhumans and xenos PC's should be completely absent from DH (extreme radicals im looking at you) they certainly should be a rare occurance, about as common as Daemon Hosts.

The biggest challenge these sorts of PC's would face is practicality - the imperium at large will not tolerate a xenos in there midst, and abhumans are going to be, at best, treated as animals. Now in alot of campaigns this problem makes it impossible to have xenos in a group - and difficult to have abhumans - but I think there are certain situations that could warrant the inclusion of a xeno or abhuman PC.

In short I would love to see xeno's PC's, but I feel they are more likely to be included as a suppliament.

And the GW comment - I 110% agree with you Tom

Regards

Surak

My take: this is 40K, not Star Trek.

Also, generally I've found that most "non-human" races in sci-fi and fantasy are really just humans with a couple of exaggerated traits and/or an "exotic" culture. You can therefor accomplish much the same things narratively by making a human character who happens to come from a homeworld with exaggerated or exotic traits.

Edit: Mind you, if they ever make a Tau Empire RPG, that might be cool.

I am definitely pro-xenos in DH2, but your list is...well...in many parts too far vrom whats "realistic"

Dark Eldar, Eldar, Tau, Demiurg, Ogryns, Squats & Ratlings definitely could be valid options for radical Inquisitors.

Other options like playong daemons or necrontyr are very very very very out of place in dh. I mean - very.

Some others again are rather difficult but in theory something which could somehow be possible with a lot of good will.

Like Kroot, Loxatl and Orks. Although I am very sceptical about Orks they wouldnt be really...quiet...or subtle.

If Xenos are introduced, it wpuld be best to chose 3-4 rather subtle options which could blend into society without instantly being outed as what they are. Eldar and their dark cousins, with a good disguise also Tau.

I just want to cast some light on that there are other races out there - some fully playable and some not so much. I just think it is sad that FFG boxed themselfs with the whole Only Humans line when there are so much roleplaying potential in several other races aswell.

Main point is. Why make a second edition out of DH and simply make the rules better. Why not make a true Warhammer 40k ruleset and let the players/GM descide if they want to play acolytes, Specc Mahrines or anything in between, why limit it to the Inquisition.

I just see that there is so much more in the 40K universe to be used, explored and taken advantage of and FFG is simply making a remake of an already good game. It is a tad sad actually.

While a 40k RPG where you play as Xeno and Chaos races WOULD be interesting, it really has no place in Dark Heresy. DH is a game with very specific theme and purpose, and playing as the things you're supposed to be fighting hugely undermines that.

It's also a matter of what Games Workshop will let FFG do.

I'm not so sure that abhumans and xenos PC's should be completely absent from DH (extreme radicals im looking at you) they certainly should be a rare occurance, about as common as Daemon Hosts.

The big problem with alien PCs isn't so much the viability of them existing at all, but the viability of them actually tagging along humans in search for heresy. Even Inquisitors willing to enter into longer arrangements with various xenos are unlikely to simply set them loose upon the populace, as such a team containing a xeno would be extremely conspicuous and likely would have ended up killed on obvious charges of consorting with the abominable.

Other games, Rogue Trader mostly, are somewhat better fit for dealing with playable xenos.

Let's play as alien members of an organization with a major division devoted to seeking out and killing aliens.

Good idea. We'll be from a hive world where the pollution makes people green seeking out an ork infestation while simultaneously trying to not let on that we are orks. I feel like there's got to be a comedy movie that has done this plot.

I just want to cast some light on that there are other races out there - some fully playable and some not so much. I just think it is sad that FFG boxed themselfs with the whole Only Humans line when there are so much roleplaying potential in several other races aswell.

Main point is. Why make a second edition out of DH and simply make the rules better. Why not make a true Warhammer 40k ruleset and let the players/GM descide if they want to play acolytes, Specc Mahrines or anything in between, why limit it to the Inquisition.

I just see that there is so much more in the 40K universe to be used, explored and taken advantage of and FFG is simply making a remake of an already good game. It is a tad sad actually.

I think it's very erroneous to assume it's all up to FFG here. They are, after all, working with a license that isn't theirs, and Games Workshop tend to be very controlling over what they allow to be published under their name. FFG are, I imagine, working within very strict guidelines here.

Let's play as alien members of an organization with a major division devoted to seeking out and killing aliens.

Good idea. We'll be from a hive world where the pollution makes people green seeking out an ork infestation while simultaneously trying to not let on that we are orks. I feel like there's got to be a comedy movie that has done this plot.

Not with those exact parameters, but it's pretty much a classic setup for any comedy of errors. Outside of movie format, there's Deffwotch - almost exactly like your example.

Still, as much as I agree with the conclusion, I'm inclined to question the premise - the view of the Inquisition you present is rather simplistic, and there are many reasons for Inquisitors, even those counting themselves among the ranks of Ordo Xenos, to enter various compacts with aliens.

It's just, I'm not seeing the point where these potential compacts take the exact shape of "cover those ears under the hood, my Eldar friend, you and my other Acolytes will go out hunting heretics in the underhive". It seems like a very silly way to lose both human acolytes and the Eldar "associate" (quote-unquote because exact nature of mutual relation can vary greatly).

Maybe the promised "Reinforcements" system will allow playing selected xenos in a more palatable form? I don't see aliens tagging along humans for investigation, but I can see an Inquisitor unleashing his Kroot Mercenary alongside his storm troopers squad for a clean-cut extermination operation.

Save any sort of xeno play(if there must be any) for radicals handbook.

That said, please make more supplements like creatures anethema and disciples of the dark gods.

I could see Abhumans as a PC option being included in a later supplement, but not xenos in DH . So, if you want to play xenos with existing rules, you are limited to Rogue Trader , which has rules for PC Orks, Kroot, and Dark Eldar.

And people have been asking for an all-Eldar RPG since the dawn of the WH40KRP system, so I wouldn't be too surprised if one was announced by FFG at some point.

I could see Abhumans as a PC option being included in a later supplement, but not xenos in DH . So, if you want to play xenos with existing rules, you are limited to Rogue Trader , which has rules for PC Orks, Kroot, and Dark Eldar.

And people have been asking for an all-Eldar RPG since the dawn of the WH40KRP system, so I wouldn't be too surprised if one was announced by FFG at some point.

That would be great if they really did an own "craftworld agent" RPG where you can play a tream of aspect warriors ;D

Seriously - I'd buy it.

Wouldnt in any way prevent the inclusion of a Ranger into an Inquisitors cadre as ally.

Playing as Eldar was my big dream ever since I've read about 40k RPG being made. I'd buy such a game in an instant.

Wouldnt in any way prevent the inclusion of a Ranger into an Inquisitors cadre as ally.

Depending on how it was done, perhaps, but I can't stress enough that I see zero reasons for any xeno accompanying your usual cell on an investigation - he'd stick out like a sore thumb and probably gotten the whole team killed by loyalist forces in a matter of hours.

I see this as excellent material for a future sourcebook. Eldar, Abhuman and Hive mutant backgrounds would be great but are only really appropriate for some campaigns. Maybe there could be an Ordo Sourcebook that has rules for various Radical companions that would be common to the various Ordos. Xenos for Xenos, obviously. Mutants and Wyrds for Hereticus and maybe Daemonhosts for Malleus. Just a thought, anyway.

I think it could be cool to play as abhumans or even mutants and beastmen, but Xenos feels wrong for me. Xenos should be uttlerly inhuman in their motives and actions, and so it would be very, very difficult to actually roleplay something which don't really have any connecting emotional and intellectual points with humans.

Save any sort of xeno play(if there must be any) for radicals handbook.

That said, please make more supplements like creatures anethema and disciples of the dark gods.

This. I'd love more critter compendiums, especially ones even more inspired by the WFRP2e bestiary than Creatures Anathema was (though CA was great).

Playable non-humans belong in either their own supplement entirely, or in a Radical's Handbook type supplement. It's an Imperium-centric game, and the modern day Imperium is very much humans only. Which is a total copout coming from me, actually, since I tend to mix my RPG fluff with a hefty dose of 1st & 2nd edition wargame fluff (where the Imperium was almost as multi-species as your average D&D campaign setting). But uhm... I don't like non-humans and I don't want the books I buy to waste page space on them

- A lot of people do though, so books for that sort of thing would undoubtedly be a really good idea.

I think it could be cool to play as abhumans or even mutants and beastmen, but Xenos feels wrong for me. Xenos should be uttlerly inhuman in their motives and actions, and so it would be very, very difficult to actually roleplay something which don't really have any connecting emotional and intellectual points with humans.

You certainly sound like an Imperial speaker.

I think it could be cool to play as abhumans or even mutants and beastmen, but Xenos feels wrong for me. Xenos should be uttlerly inhuman in their motives and actions, and so it would be very, very difficult to actually roleplay something which don't really have any connecting emotional and intellectual points with humans.

This is the problem with non-human PCs in any RPG: they tend to be simplified down to a couple enhanced physical stats and a sharply narrowed range of human personality traits.

I think it could be cool to play as abhumans or even mutants and beastmen, but Xenos feels wrong for me. Xenos should be uttlerly inhuman in their motives and actions, and so it would be very, very difficult to actually roleplay something which don't really have any connecting emotional and intellectual points with humans.

People keep repeating that about 40k xenos. The fact of the matter, though, is that all xeno races were invented by humans, and all info we have on them was written by humans. And that makes them inherently understandable, because the human mind is incapable of imagining something it cannot comprehend.

Frankly, I actually find the idea of 40k xenos being hard to play particularly preposterous, because what passes for human in 40k already operates on a pretty alien mindset from our contemporary perspective. If you can get into the mind of a superstitious bigot who accepts every command from his superiors as literal word of god enough to play him, you'll be fine playing a stuck up, pointy-eared guy who believes in destiny and is willing to commit any atrocity for the survival of his race.

Helloes.

Me and the gang really like Warhammer 40K and Fantasy, and being able to roleplay in its glorious Universe is a Emperor sent blessing...

But sometimes we feel like playing humans, all the time, is just a little bit lacklustering. Especcially when we all know there are so many cool races out there in the galaxy to purge, I mean play.

<snip>

I know it is a copy/paste from Wikipedia - but it just shines to the possibilities then just play a human. All the time.

I think we got us a heretic here. This post is seething with heresy. Somebody needs to send the Inquisitor to speak with him.

I think it could be cool to play as abhumans or even mutants and beastmen, but Xenos feels wrong for me. Xenos should be uttlerly inhuman in their motives and actions, and so it would be very, very difficult to actually roleplay something which don't really have any connecting emotional and intellectual points with humans.

People keep repeating that about 40k xenos. The fact of the matter, though, is that all xeno races were invented by humans, and all info we have on them was written by humans. And that makes them inherently understandable, because the human mind is incapable of imagining something it cannot comprehend.

Frankly, I actually find the idea of 40k xenos being hard to play particularly preposterous, because what passes for human in 40k already operates on a pretty alien mindset from our contemporary perspective. If you can get into the mind of a superstitious bigot who accepts every command from his superiors as literal word of god enough to play him, you'll be fine playing a stuck up, pointy-eared guy who believes in destiny and is willing to commit any atrocity for the survival of his race.

Yeah...

40k is already a setting of caricature and larger-than-life or out-of-this-world figures in some respects. I am not certain that there is much difference, and certainly if people want to play xenos they should. The reality is the concept of xenos in 40k is not particularly more complex than how any given group of roleplayers might manage anyhow. Eldar pretty much are a narrowly exaggerated band of human traits. As are orks, etc. Yes, a convincingly alien portrayal might be a challenge, but that is not a good reason to deny people the opportunity.

That said, I don't have much interest in doing so myself. I feel like the Imperium is far more developed and that playing as a xenos would stretch my interpretation of the setting rather a lot. It would have to be well-packaged and supported for me to consider.

The exception would be BC I suppose, playing a xenos Chaos adherent in a Chaos warband seems way more plausible than most other shoehorned explanations for it, and also easier to support without having an entire convincing infrastructure for the xenos.