I screwed up my XP and weapon economy

By sabata00, in Game Masters

I know, I just got carried away with it.

Your point should be well taken though. No player character is invincible, and some of these ideas can be used slightly less lethally.

I really like the set up thing - makes for a good plot (or hell, campaign). Now the PCs need to make friends out of at least one enemy really fast or exceptionally bad things are going to happen to them.

I know, I just got carried away with it.

Your point should be well taken though. No player character is invincible, and some of these ideas can be used slightly less lethally.

I really like the set up thing - makes for a good plot (or hell, campaign). Now the PCs need to make friends out of at least one enemy really fast or exceptionally bad things are going to happen to them.

They are cool ideas but that's not what I made the post for.

I think stun is a very good idea. I haven't been using it and that's definitely a weapon quality which would make a difference. My players often take voluntary strain and so this would be a good method of punishing their over exertion.

Edited by sabata00

You also mentioned that they didn't like concealing weapons.

Why does that matter? There will be places that they can either choose to hide the weapons or relinquish them. It is a good way to strip them temporarily of their weapons to add to the challenge. Especially once you start reminding them of their reputation.

"Oh, crap Jim...its that bunch again. C'mon, lets go grab their weapons before they shoot up Bob's Cantina again."

If they stay under the radar they may get them back. If they break the law and have to run for it, they help to pay for the damages.

What the others have been saying is good, but I think your main problem here is too much focus on combat. Let the combat characters shine, but also hit them where they're weak so that your other characters can shine too, and get the big guns out of sticky situations.

I don't consider the campaign too combat focused. Besides these 3 combat characters, there is a scholar/slicer and a smuggler. The group as a whole is very well rounded.

My issue is that combat feels shallow and uninteresting. It's a fight for first initiative slot, and little else.

Okay..but you said this:

This is my fault, and I know it. I gave out too much XP, put too much emphasis on combat, and gave them access to too awesome weapons.

Just trying to give helpful advice based on your own stated concerns ;)

Further, if they have low WT then don't be afraid to dish out the damage (and as others have said, Stun damage can be even more effective since a lot of combat-focused characters have quite a low Strain threshold). If they've built glass cannons, EXPLOIT THE WEAKNESS. It's not a jerk GM move to take your PCs down in a fight, especially since it looks like they enjoy getting into fights in the first place (what with never wanting to conceal weapons, and general combat-wise builds taken into consideration).

All the comments around changing the setting are apt; how many good fights in Star Wars took place in a wide open field? Only a couple and they still didn't kill enough Gungans!

But the best battles (in my opinion) were in locales where the opponent wasn't the most dangerous variable in the situation; steaming cauldrons of molten metal, a Sith Lord force-throwing pieces of equipment ripped off the wall, a slippery fight in a downpour on a landing pad - THOSE elements made the fight more interesting, not what weapons were used or how many stormtroopers showed up.

One of the great things about being the GM is you can rip off anything and everything you've ever seen or read for your story, and your players will love it! Don't be afraid to steal liberally; your players will probably see the connection - but instead of groans and eye-rolling, you'll likely get some more engaged excitement because they can visualize the action.

Okay..but you said this:

This is my fault, and I know it. I gave out too much XP, put too much emphasis on combat, and gave them access to too awesome weapons.

That's a good point. Let me retract.

Combat is a big part. The players love it and I don't want to take it away. I've focused on it in a sense that it's a large part of each session, but that isn't coming at the expense of non-combat encounters.

This looks like an example of the classic min-max problem, one trick ponies that are basically useless when it comes to anything but combat. They do it really well but: "If you're a hammer every problem looks like a nail"

Since it's too late to change the characters and they seem to be at close to their combat potential anyway I'd advise having the next few adventures have some serious non-combat challenges mixed in with your normal combat ones. Make sure that challenges can't be overcome with combat skills and/or equipment and don't hand wave anything. If your players come up with great ideas let them try but don't help them out if they don't have the stats/skills to make those ideas work. Also don't let them roll skills until they succeed , make them change the situation before they can roll a skill check again, a failure means failure.

Also as others have said they've been around for a while now and likely have a reputation, use it and counter their combat strengths and implants with ion weapons, traps, stuns etc. but mostly use challenges that require other skills. No need to kill them but let them FAIL to save the princess (or whatever) because they don't have the proper skill set.

Another tactic would be to split the party. I know this is generally not advised and it can be difficult to manage but if you lure the three Combat Monsters into a situation where their skills are worthless for part of an adventure they may begin to see that they need more than combat skills.

Hopefully they will start spending some of their new EP on other skills.

Edited by FuriousGreg

What about the setting? They're obvious combat monsters, but what if their skills are required on a Core World that has rather draconian weapons laws? Picking a fight with law enforcement is usually not a good idea, and push it too far and they might find themselves trying to break out of the spice mines on Kessel... or even the impossibility of the Star's End Prison.

Their skill set is obvious combat oriented, but how does that skill set work in space?

In addition, how large are the minion groups you're using right now? For a group that is that tricked out, I'd be sending cluster groups of minions of at least six working together as a team. Stormtroopers in such groups would be shooting with 2 green and 3 yellow dice. A group of eight stormtroopers would be 4 green 3 yellow... (I think, I've not seen a truly maximum skill limit, Hutts have Resilience of 8)...

In addition, I'd throw this complication at them: FEAR. It certainly will make their skill checks more of a challenge. They've tricked out their weapons, but not adapted their Cool or Discipline skills in order to prevent them from wetting their gear if an angry Rancor is bearing down on them. You could push them into a horror type scenario (Aliens, the Blackwing Virus), where suddenly all the blaster skill in the galaxy isn't going to help them keep calm. Think Private Hudson freaking out and yelling "Game Over Man!" despite all of his combat skills...

There are ways to making things more challenge, but also to redirect them into using the skill that they haven't tricked out...

I would suggest allowing them to continue being combat gods, with few peers in the galaxy. What you as the GM should do then is to give them hard choices as to how to direct this power.

Look at their Motivations and Obligations. Is there something that a character cherishes? Put it at risk and if they want to save it, they have to give up something else cherished (or hurt it in the fallout). There should be no easy outs, it's time to see what these guys really stand for.

They have all the power they need to make the things they want happen. It's time to make them question what they want.

There are a lot of good options on this post. Let me recommend a couple more.

First, let the players indulge in their love of combat. If they like it, fine, but what you appear to be saying is that these guys can do sick amounts of damage and so you're finding it difficult to present them with a challenge. So give them minion groups to turn into hamburger.

Second, give your players two or three nemeses. Maybe a Black Sun vigo who binds them into debt or owing him a 15-point favor on the Obligation table? He could send the PCs running to take care of minor skirmishes or doing something truly undesirable, such as helping a slaving ring put down a revolt or shaking down poor old shopkeepers for protection money. Another good idea is an Imperial customs agent who patrols a sector of space and wants to make life miserable for PCs. You could also use a sector ranger, the Star Wars equivalent of a U.S. Marshal, and have her persue the characters. You might also stat out a rival group, a mercenary group, who competes with the PCs to get jobs. If you're feeling *really* mean, then look at the stats for the Fallen Jedi and let your players experience the pants-wetting fear of confronting someone who can rip their weapons away from them and who wields a weapon that can kill most players. I think the first time one of your players experiences a 100+ level critical by a lightsaber they'll be very aware they're not as powerful as they think. Come up with storylines involving these nemeses and throw them at the players.

Third, come up with ways where combat is one option, but it's not always the best option. For instance, when the Millenium Falcon was getting tractored into the Death Star. The heroes could have fought against the stormtroopers for as long as they could, but it was a wiser move to hide in their smuggling compartments. When the Millenium Falcon was being chased by three Star Destroyers and several TIE Fighters, Han could have turned the ship around to fight, but he chose to run. Take some inspiration from that. Sure, the heroes can rush the Imperial garrison and they could probably take out a ton of stormtroopers, but they're going to get hurt. Why not use Charm or Deception instead?

Fourth, come up with adventures where combat isn't the biggest challenge. This is building on what I talked about in the previous paragraph. Have the characters have to discover a lost planet or discover what really happened in that abandoned mine. Give the players some social challenges to work with, like how to overcome their obligations. One of my personal favorite adventures for combat and equipment oriented players is to strip them completely. Take away their custom equipment, their ship, etc. Leave them stuck on a nowhere planet with a small starport and see what they do. This is a good old-fashioned revenge storyline, where the players have to acquire a ship, follow one or two convenient clues left by the GM, and track down whoever robbed them and get their stuff back. Another good idea is to place the group as having to oppose the Empire somehow. With Age of Rebellion coming out, now is the perfect time for your crew to do some gunrunning. Have their ship get boarded by a customs officer who is meticulous about his job and wants to hassle the PCs while his customs corvette is. (Your PCs may choose to fight the corvette, the customs officer and the squad of stormtroopers he brings on board, but if they do that start printing up new character sheets.) Make the exchange, give the crew an offer to do more work, and then have them beset by thugs who want to rob the PCs of their credits or have the deal go sour. Fight off stormtroopers first, then stormtroopers led by sergeants, along with any armored vehicles you have in mind to let the PCs know it's time to leave this planet. You can have them fleeing a Star Destroyer as they leave for added effect.

Hopefully these ideas give you a decent starting point. Good luck!