My last session yesterday went out of step. I got one droid in my party. My plan is to treat this role as any "normal" species to give my player the same opportunity to upgrade his character as anyone else. But the other players more and more think of a "super computer" since the droid is ought to be a highly developed technology. So the droid should always have a data pad, a unlimited recording system, perfect in lockpicking and thousands other things. No matter what the next situation demands. Best I got then was a very angry comment: "I expect that a droid got more features than a standard smart-phone"... That was the point I thought about to stop the session yesterday.

So how would you deal with such things? Is it wrong to say, that such features also have to build in? I think there are always different droid types in the Star Wars universe. Some very high developed, some at an intelligence level of a common toaster. So I think, players have to accept which one the GM drops into the game and not expect R2-D2s every meter on their way through the adventure.

Boy, that absolutely was no fun yesterday.

cu

Gargi

Droids in Star Wars tend to be specialised in certain tasks, hence the numerous different models and degrees. They are not programmed nor equipped with everything (except R2D2 in the prequels).

A player of a droid should have to buy equipment like any other player, beyond what would be reasonable as standard for their model as the GM allows.

Sounds like, from your post, your players expect the droid together answer to all things. How familiar are they with Star Wars, if you don't mind me asking?

Could be worse, my players wondered about reprogramming a character who was a full cyborg (think Grevious) as a sex droid!

As the Droid is played by a player, why is it your task as a GM to explain anything to the other characters?

Shouldn't it be the task of the player ("I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid that I can't do that")?

And yes, he can always try to throw his single green die to hack the computer, but ...

Anything that the player buys can be noted as a built-in component. If they didn't buy it (toolkit, night vision, datapad, etc.) then they don't have it. If they don't have something that should be standard for their model, then that component is broken and in need of replacement (so, back to "buy it if you want it"). Droids don't get gear for free.

Anything that the player buys can be noted as a built-in component. If they didn't buy it (toolkit, night vision, datapad, etc.) then they don't have it. If they don't have something that should be standard for their model, then that component is broken and in need of replacement (so, back to "buy it if you want it"). Droids don't get gear for free.

Exactly this - a droid could have all these things - if they bought them. Even R2 and 3PO needed to carry comlinks on them (and if they want canon sources for that- Episode 3 (R2 on The Hidden Hand's hangar) and 4 (3PO and the garbage compactor).

Another big point - droids and modern real world tech are not the same at all and trying to apply modern world expectations to the Star Wars universe is a road to madness. Computers are a lot more limited apparently in the Star Wars universe (why that is can be handwaved or fluffed up any way you want, the meta-EU stuff like the History of Warfare book have some ideas). They are not built like we build smart phones and tablets and more like how we build the robots that work on assembly lines in factories or roombas that clean our floors and transport cats in shark costumes (they don't have cellular phones, full office application suites, etc).

"I expect that a droid got more features than a standard smart-phone".

At that point, I would have called up the specs for a super sexy top of the line Ipad and the bottom end cheapest version out there. Point to Sexy "This is where you're aspiring to" point to Frumpy "This is where you are. You want to be sexy, it'll cost you 5 times the money"

This is the way I thought it is. In "Depts to Pay" there is a rusty tech droid at the side on the landing pad rotting. First thing was, hey, we go to that machine, it surely has a console and watch the log files. It is for sure connected to the computer system and we will see what is going on here. If not, we can see what he did last. A "there is no console at this machine" gave me players rolling eyes. "This droid is nothing more than a refilling machine for landing ships" - "So what about the log files ?" Okay, that was not the big thing, and I told that there are some ships logged in it's system.

I have understood it as you did here: Droids are machines designed to do special jobs. Droids have a limited memory being erased every time it is sold to another "master" as far as I read yesterday and I remember Episode IV as C3-PO and R2-D2 should be erased too after Owen Skywalker bought them for his farm. They are fit with things they need for their work and nothing more. I also think that they are not to be upgraded by software, the Star Wars - Complete Visual Dictionary book tells about special processors for their duties.

That also will lead me to the fact that additional technical stuff could cost system strain for the droid. A 3D holo recording system needs energy. And batteries are also not unlimited.

I see, I have to make some things clear before my player will proceed the next session Last time I was not really sure and ran in this discussion

Honestly, if your players roll their eyes and go "that can't be right" whenever you make a ruling as GM (whether it involves droids not having handy access terminals or anything else really) I think you have a larger issue in your gaming group than Droids.

It kinda sounds like your players doesn't trust your judgement, or maybe they have a vastly different impression of the Star Wars setting than the one you are presenting to them. If so, you should probably consider sitting them down and discussing what the problem is. If they think you are "doing it wrong", then maybe one of them should try their hands at GMing a scenario.

Ultimately, if they do want you to GM for them, then they have to accept your vision of things and just go with it. It's almost impossible to GM someone else's impression of a setting, so at the end of the day they have to accept your take on things, or do something else.

Droids in Star Wars tend to be specialised in certain tasks, hence the numerous different models and degrees. They are not programmed nor equipped with everything (except R2D2 in the prequels).

^Yes, this.

"Dammit, Luke. I'm a Doctor, not a lockpick!" - 2-1B

Regarding a droid being a walking search engine, there are a few approaches.

The one I would go with is this. In our "real world", the internet can access all of this information because it is made available to all. In the Star Wars universe, this is not the case. Information is protected, kept secret. Especially in the Empire, no one posts all information on a public page. A scout who invested his time and ship costs into mapping out a sector isn't going to make that information available for free. Someone else may have paid for the files, and posted them, but that won't be as easy to find, or runs the risk of being shut down if the original owner finds it first.

So, even if the player characters' technology includes network searching, the Imperial technology being used to keep systems isolated and control information is even farther advanced.

The opposite extreme is that the droid's search capability is equal to a standard smart phone, but it now has a galaxy's worth of information to sift through, and the difficulty roll is to determine whether he can recognize the needed information before his system crashes from overflow.

In metagame terms, the limitation is there to keep the game balanced. Of the 3 Star Wars RPGs I've played, this one makes droids the most accessible as a player option. They are still going to be a cut above the average droid of their make, especially since they are autonomous. Part of making this work is going to be coming to agreements between player and GM about what is included. For example, just picking Astromech as a body type does not mean you have all of the attachments R2-D2 has. He could fly/hover during the Clone Wars, but is struggling down stairs in Mos Eisley. This would indicate that the rockets were an attachment (device) that was probably later removed or replaced with another system.

A droid is only going to be as good as it's equipment and programming. Thinking that the best lockpicking and computer slicing upgrades are going to come standard is presumptious at best.

Even "knowledge" droids are specialized equipment. C3PO was a well upgraded and equipped droid, programmed with a multitude of languages and protocol, and was able to serve in diplomatic functions because of it (High presense, with knowledge skills for language and customs). He was incapable of repairing the falcon or slicing the blast door on Endor's moon. He was pretty useless in combat, and was nearly a liabilty in it as well.

As for equipment that is a "built-in" compenent, unless the book already has a statement on this that I missed, I'd make the player pay an installation premium for having equipment built-in, because it offers advantages over carried equipment. It could be concealed, not count against the player's carried weight (forgetting the actual term there), unlikely to be dropped or confiscated (being a part of the droid), etc. I'd base this premium upon how large, complex, and critical I think the equipment is.

It sounds like you might have a group of min-maxers to deal with, placing annoying obstacles in front of thier attempts to break the game is one way of dealing with them. Enforcing the "how much you can carry" rules is another. Surprise ambush can also be another way to break an arguement.

Players begin making inane argument about why they think thier arguement is valid .

GM: "Roll vigilance."

Players roll, succeed

GM: "You hear a group of quick moving boots approaching from the distance."

Players either continue to argue to move into combat .

and the session is either over ( because they want to argue more then play ) or continues from there ( they enter combat ).

You can even use the combat situation to resolve what the arguement began with. " My droid should be able to pick that lock! " becomes they find a key on one of the approaching guards. You've resolved their situation, and you can point back to the incident any time the player tries to bring it up in the future (unless they've made the appropriate expenditures in experience or credits to resolve it). You dodge the arguement, keep the game moving, and set yourself up later to show consistency.

Feel free to use or discard anything here. All I'm presenting are options.

Droids in Star Wars tend to be specialised in certain tasks, hence the numerous different models and degrees. They are not programmed nor equipped with everything (except R2D2 in the prequels).

^Yes, this.

"Dammit, Luke. I'm a Doctor, not a lockpick!" - 2-1B

Regarding a droid being a walking search engine, there are a few approaches.

The one I would go with is this. In our "real world", the internet can access all of this information because it is made available to all. In the Star Wars universe, this is not the case. Information is protected, kept secret. Especially in the Empire, no one posts all information on a public page. A scout who invested his time and ship costs into mapping out a sector isn't going to make that information available for free. Someone else may have paid for the files, and posted them, but that won't be as easy to find, or runs the risk of being shut down if the original owner finds it first.

So, even if the player characters' technology includes network searching, the Imperial technology being used to keep systems isolated and control information is even farther advanced.

The opposite extreme is that the droid's search capability is equal to a standard smart phone, but it now has a galaxy's worth of information to sift through, and the difficulty roll is to determine whether he can recognize the needed information before his system crashes from overflow.

In metagame terms, the limitation is there to keep the game balanced. Of the 3 Star Wars RPGs I've played, this one makes droids the most accessible as a player option. They are still going to be a cut above the average droid of their make, especially since they are autonomous. Part of making this work is going to be coming to agreements between player and GM about what is included. For example, just picking Astromech as a body type does not mean you have all of the attachments R2-D2 has. He could fly/hover during the Clone Wars, but is struggling down stairs in Mos Eisley. This would indicate that the rockets were an attachment (device) that was probably later removed or replaced with another system.

The absence of an internet is important to note - the Holonet was shut down for most of the Galactic Civil War, or heavily monitored and censored. It also wasn't a true 'internet' in nature (partly due to the 1970s era in which the concept was created) but more like a wire news service mixed with a long distance holographic communications network (for those who remember those things, for the younger crowd, imagine a RSS feed-like system but where input is restricted, no Web 2.0 for the citizens of the Empire).

HAN: Well, why don't you use your divine influence and get us out of this?

THREEPIO: I beg your pardon, General Solo, but that just wouldn't be proper.

HAN: Proper?!

THREEPIO: It's against my programming to impersonate a deity.

I had player wanting to be a Thief/Mechanic type. Good at fixing things but also small, overlooked and good at sneaking. Wanted to play a Jawa, and my first reaction was "Why would you want to do that?" then it was suggested a cross between and R2 unit and a Bumblebee. Most every Maintenance droid, or astromech droid is not known for it's sneakyness. But I can understand some players thinking they can do anything with a droid.

Finally suggested playing a Chadra-Fan.

There are a lot of good hints and options you are presenting here! Thanks for that! I have to say, that I really was overrun a bit in this session, but now I see, my ideas about droids were right. I'm a Star Wars viewer since Return of the Jedi came to the theaters, played Star Wars years ago (D6 system I think, but not for sure) for 3 or 4 times, but there are still many things to care about in order not to run into such discussions.

Most important thing to me is, that playing RPGs should make fun for everyone. But gaining such points sometimes I have the impression players are disappointed or get a bit angry. So it uses some talents to move along this without ruining the complete evening

But this is also a good chance for my next session to show them that there is no need for being pissed and they also can trust my interpretations after presenting the results of my researchs. Maybe they will find out better to drop the attitude to compare SW technology with our real world to gain more fun

As mentioned, you should discuss problems like this with the group prior to playing, even let them read this thread if you want. It is easier to diffuse hard feelings then, than at the moment when the player has his brilliant idea vetoed by the GM. They need to trust you and understand that a RPG game is a cooperative story telling experience (with dice) and not a competition between players and GM. Once they trust that you're not out to "get them" they might fight your decisions less. I have a similar issue with one player that knows the Star Wars universe much better than me, and he's often throwing stuff at me to counter decisions I make. I give him some, but when it will affect the story and game play adversely, I stick with my ruling. He sometimes gets bent out of shape but he does get over it and we move on.

As mentioned, you should discuss problems like this with the group prior to playing, even let them read this thread if you want. It is easier to diffuse hard feelings then, than at the moment when the player has his brilliant idea vetoed by the GM. They need to trust you and understand that a RPG game is a cooperative story telling experience (with dice) and not a competition between players and GM. Once they trust that your not out to "get them" they might fight your decisions less. I have a similar issue with one player that knows the Star Wars universe much better than me, and he's often throwing stuff at me to counter decisions I make. I give him some, but when it will affect the story and game play adversely, I stick with my ruling. He sometimes gets bent out of shape but he does get over it and we move on.

As mentioned, you should discuss problems like this with the group prior to playing, even let them read this thread if you want. It is easier to diffuse hard feelings then, than at the moment when the player has his brilliant idea vetoed by the GM. They need to trust you and understand that a RPG game is a cooperative story telling experience (with dice) and not a competition between players and GM. Once they trust that your not out to "get them" they might fight your decisions less. I have a similar issue with one player that knows the Star Wars universe much better than me, and he's often throwing stuff at me to counter decisions I make. I give him some, but when it will affect the story and game play adversely, I stick with my ruling. He sometimes gets bent out of shape but he does get over it and we move on.

"I am altering the Canon. Pray I don't alter it any further!" -Darth Stark

This is one approach to a player that argues with a GM ruling. If the Star Wars knowledge that the player is using to support his arguments comes from Expanded Universe, it's even easier. But even if he's referencing the films, those are mutable too. (Han shot first!)

IceBear brings up a great point. It helps to remind the players that RPG is not a "GM vs Players" game. Instead, you are creating a story "based on" the events and settings in the Star Wars Canon. I came up with a question to ask my players, and luckily have not had to use it. It might help you. "Would you pay ten bucks to see a movie where everything is that easy for the hero?"

Another thought:

It's been mentioned on other threads that there are groups where everyone wants to play, and no one wants to GM. If this is the case in your game, and you have a player that keeps bringing up examples from his vast knowledge of Extended Universe material, suggest that he take on the duty of GM. Otherwise, just as Lucas himself had to give Irvin Kershner a little (but not much) artistic control in directing "Empire," if they want you to run the game, you're going to do it your way.

I think one way of looking at it is that Star Wars technology seems to be based off what we had in the 1980s. You know, before smart phones and apps, all computer images were still wireframe.

So if they use the smart phone analogy pull up a picture of one of the old back-pack supported mobile phones that city workers used to carry and ask how that could be upgraded to connect with facebook.

I think one way of looking at it is that Star Wars technology seems to be based off what we had in the 1980s. You know, before smart phones and apps, all computer images were still wireframe.

So if they use the smart phone analogy pull up a picture of one of the old back-pack supported mobile phones that city workers used to carry and ask how that could be upgraded to connect with facebook.

I hadn't thought of that angle, but you're right. You wouldn't have micro-chips in a Steampunk game. Star Wars has a similar dynamic going on. It's "retro-futuristic." OK, now I have to go deal with the realization that I just used that term for films that were released in my lifetime. *sigh*

As lupex says. technology in the Star Wars universe is not along the same lines as Star Trek or our own world, or other hard sci-fi universes.

For instance I do not allow wi-fi connections everywhere, perhaps on Coruscant and some other civilised and high-tech worlds, but mostly any connections have to be done with connectors of some kind. Comlinks are not iphones or smartphones, they're more like walkie-talkies. Star Wars droids are not Terminators or I, Robot type androids.

I think one way of looking at it is that Star Wars technology seems to be based off what we had in the 1980s. You know, before smart phones and apps, all computer images were still wireframe.

So if they use the smart phone analogy pull up a picture of one of the old back-pack supported mobile phones that city workers used to carry and ask how that could be upgraded to connect with facebook.

I hadn't thought of that angle, but you're right. You wouldn't have micro-chips in a Steampunk game. Star Wars has a similar dynamic going on. It's "retro-futuristic." OK, now I have to go deal with the realization that I just used that term for films that were released in my lifetime. *sigh*

That's awesome. "Retro-futuristic". I love it, consider it stolen!

I have a regular player who was in my FATE Firefly game I was running, but now we are doing Star Wars he doesn't want to play because "the tech is totally incongruent with its usage".... Huh?

That's awesome. "Retro-futuristic". I love it, consider it stolen!

I have a regular player who was in my FATE Firefly game I was running, but now we are doing Star Wars he doesn't want to play because "the tech is totally incongruent with its usage".... Huh?

Funny. The same guy that gave me the term "retro-futuristic" also makes frequent use of the word "incongruent." I don't think it's the same person, although he is a Firefly and Steampunk fan. He's just pretty busy with his theater group. Since "in my experience, there's no such thing as luck" I figure this coincidence might warrant a should out for the group: www.terramysterium.com. The group does use Steampunk elements, with Victorian settings, retro-futuristic costuming, and instances of time-travel.

Just to add up on the "droid should have more features than a smartphone". Agreed, but out of the box, you only got what is required for the task, phone app and calendar (for example), if you want more apps, you need to install them (and pay for them, in some/most cases).

It's the same with the droids, they have been built for a task, but they can expand over their current tasks. If you pay for the upgrades.

The book considers gear purchased by droids to be easily installed and thus easy to change. The player of a human Colonist/Doctor would need to spend starting money to have a medical kit. The same is true for a droid of the same profession.

"But wouldn't a medical droid already have the basics installed?" the player asks.

"Yes," Gm calmly replies. "Unless he traded it for something else, like that armor plating you have."

I personally love that FFG made droids a playable "race." In previous systems, there have been separate rules or entire sourcebooks dealing with them. They worked, but it was almost like droid players were part of a different game system. In EotE, droids work like the other playable races. For example, a droid with a high Perception can be assumed to have advanced "integrated" sensors, and enough experiential data to recognize and be aware of the environment or behavioral cues of NPCs. A droid with Computers skill will have the ability to interface with computers, so if it's not humanoid and able to use a keyboard, it probably has a SCOMP-link like Artoo-Deetoo.

In narrative terms, a droid that wants to improve itself (which PC droids could be assumed to be) would be constantly picking up data packets or bits of gear. However, data can sometimes be redundant, and upgraded equipment may need to be used a few times before a droid can adapt it to full use.

The way I see it, a droid may spend "down time" adding gear, and allowing the heuristic processor to 'figure it out.' When the player invests XP to increase a skill, this represents either an adaptation being complete, or the droid's own "learning processor" reaching a benchmark in understanding.

Attaching gear is the same as buying gear. Note that gear either makes a check possible (right tool for the job) or allows a Boost bonus, or reduction in Setback. It does not increase a characteristic or skill. (and thus, gear does not increase the chances of using a Proficiency (yellow) die. A droid could by an upgrade in Brawn, but this would be a Cybernetic Implant, which is where the droid's implant cap of 6 is of benefit.

Having mentioned Artoo earlier, it's also important to decide a few things about the basic model when the character is created. Most droids will either walk or roll. Some might have the ability to hover over any surface (except metal grates as Tom Servo has taught us) I think I'd allow a simple choice of walking or rolling. I might allow a hover option if it makes sense, and the Stats supported it. If a player increases the droid's Brawn and leaves Agility at 1, I probably wouldn't allow it to be "hovering." On the R2 models, they probably would have magnetic feet, but it wouldn't necessarily allow EVA to be automatic. R2 could move along the surface of the Naboo Royal Starship easily, because of the smooth surface. A YT-1300 would be a challenge.

My last session yesterday went out of step. I got one droid in my party. My plan is to treat this role as any "normal" species to give my player the same opportunity to upgrade his character as anyone else. But the other players more and more think of a "super computer" since the droid is ought to be a highly developed technology. So the droid should always have a data pad, a unlimited recording system, perfect in lockpicking and thousands other things. No matter what the next situation demands. Best I got then was a very angry comment: "I expect that a droid got more features than a standard smart-phone"... That was the point I thought about to stop the session yesterday.

So how would you deal with such things? Is it wrong to say, that such features also have to build in? I think there are always different droid types in the Star Wars universe. Some very high developed, some at an intelligence level of a common toaster. So I think, players have to accept which one the GM drops into the game and not expect R2-D2s every meter on their way through the adventure.

Boy, that absolutely was no fun yesterday.

cu

Gargi

I wouldn't try to justify it in Star Wars universe terms your just setting yourself up for "its unrealistic" arguments which you will never win. Simply put, your players are right, Star Wars droids make absolutely no sense at all in realistic terms. Why would someone program a droid to be able to speak billions of forms of communications but not have a built in com link? Or why make a humanoid droid made of gold to begin with when you have powerful futuristic metals? If you start looking at the Star Wars universe with any sense of logic you are going to find many obvious flaws. Its a fantasy world, not really a science-fiction one. More importantly its one created to tell a very specific story, not one designed to exist outside of that story.

You simply have to get your players to accept that its a game, not a science fiction simulator. They have to accept the Star Wars universe as it was created and that its governed by rules designed to be used in a role-playing game in which droids are not perfect lockpickers even though strictly speaking they probobly logically should be.

I wouldn't try to justify it in Star Wars universe terms your just setting yourself up for "its unrealistic" arguments which you will never win. Simply put, your players are right, Star Wars droids make absolutely no sense at all in realistic terms. Why would someone program a droid to be able to speak billions of forms of communications but not have a built in com link?

Some protocol droids are equipped with them. Others add it aftermarket or as an upgrade option at time of purchase and some are sold explicitly without a comlink and marketed as being more secure (because an integral comlink can make your protocol droid into a walking security violation - see Death Star protocol droids and the ISB backdoors).

Why was C-3PO golden coloured? Well, in his case, being owned by pretty wealthy folks once he left Tatooine.

In setting there can be a lot of reasons for any given incongruity (cost savings, optional add-ons, etc). Out of game the reason is simple - the droid player needs to buy the resources just like a non-droid PC, they just get the ability to call it an internal component. You don't get to say "I'm a 3PO unit" and get all of his stuff for free and then build your character from there.