Curious if this would work.

No.

No.

Could I get a bit of an explanation? There was 3 questions I asked.

No to all 3. If you don't take the action right then, you miss you opportunity. Otherwise you can argue that you can wait until the last thing in the round (such as during attacks) then use it. It's not a sensible reading.

No to all 3. If you don't take the action right then, you miss you opportunity. Otherwise you can argue that you can wait until the last thing in the round (such as during attacks) then use it. It's not a sensible reading.

So what you are saying is that PTL, although not specifically saying that it would take place immediately after the initial action, does in fact take place at that time. The problem I see with that is there are some abilities and effects in this game that do state that they happen at an immediate time but this one does not.

It might not say it's immediate, but if you make your maneuver, it is now "after executing your maneuver" or something along those lines, no longer 'after you perform an action." By your logic you could wait until the middle of the other player executing his ship's turn (extreme tongue in cheek example) and suddenly take an action, because it is "after" you took your action.

It's not always clear why they specify some things are immediate and others are not, but whatever you just did last, that's what <whatever> is happening "after." If you do an action, then move, it is now after you moved, not after you took an action. Otherwise the turn order starts to fall apart in a hurry,

Also, you called it a "boost left maneuver." Very important to note that boosts and barrel rolls are actions - not maneuvers by any definition. This is confounded a little bit with the ruling that they set off proximity mines, which they will hopefully be clearing up a bit better in the next FAQ. But for most, at least, if not all intents and purposes, it is a boost action, not a boost maneuver.

That's an important distinction because with the exception of the prox mines ruling, boost and barrel roll are affected by anything using the action keyword, but not the maneuver one. I know in your example you used it as an action, but you called it a maneuver and that's a bad habit to get into because it can lead to a lot of confusion in how it interacts with other rules.

Hopefully that helps.

Oh, and you CAN use PTL with Advanced Sensors - you just have to take both actions before executing your maneuver.

But as has been raised elsewhere, one neat trick with advanced sensors is to select a green maneuver. You do your action from advanced sensors, do a second action with PTL, take a stress token, then execute your green move and immediately CLEAR the stress token. Unless you're Ibtisam, in which case you probably want to keep it.

Any time the trigger condition for an ability is met, that ability goes off right then - you can't bank that effect for later. Since every effect is, essentially, immediate, the actual use of immediate becomes a timing discriminator - if two effects go off with the same trigger, effects which specify "immediately" go first.

If you could save your second action from PtL until after your maneuver, why not until after all other ships have moved? Why couldn't you save it until next turn? Why not put R2-D2 on an X-wing, start with 3 green maneuvers, but hold the abilities to use once you've taken damage?

The rules, honestly, don't spell this out as directly as we might like... but the alternative is pretty silly, and it's not COMPLETELY unsupported. For example, page 9: Card abilities without the “Action:” header may be resolved when specified on the card and do not count as the ship’s action. The trigger condition indicates when the ability should be resolved; it's not just something that has to happen to "load" the ability for later use.

Editing to add: This really isn't anything new with Push the Limit. It could always trigger from an action that happened at an odd time. Possibilities include Lando or Squad Leader passing an action, Turr's ability, and now Advanced Sensors. Nothing new, and certainly not in need of an errata.

It might not say it's immediate, but if you make your maneuver, it is now "after executing your maneuver" or something along those lines, no longer 'after you perform an action." By your logic you could wait until the middle of the other player executing his ship's turn (extreme tongue in cheek example) and suddenly take an action, because it is "after" you took your action.

It's not always clear why they specify some things are immediate and others are not, but whatever you just did last, that's what <whatever> is happening "after." If you do an action, then move, it is now after you moved, not after you took an action. Otherwise the turn order starts to fall apart in a hurry.

Well that does make sense and it was how I thought it would be ruled for my ship's turn, obviously if it isn't my ship's turn I wouldn't be performing actions or anything.

Also, you called it a "boost left maneuver." Very important to note that boosts and barrel rolls are actions - not maneuvers by any definition. This is confounded a little bit with the ruling that they set off proximity mines, which they will hopefully be clearing up a bit better in the next FAQ. But for most, at least, if not all intents and purposes, it is a boost action, not a boost maneuver.

That's an important distinction because with the exception of the prox mines ruling, boost and barrel roll are affected by anything using the action keyword, but not the maneuver one. I know in your example you used it as an action, but you called it a maneuver and that's a bad habit to get into because it can lead to a lot of confusion in how it interacts with other rules.

I miss-typed that part about a boost maneuver as it is past 2am here. I already knew that boosts and barrel rolls were not maneuvers but actions. Not really what I asked and a bit off-topic.

Hopefully that helps.

Ty.

Any time the trigger condition for an ability is met, that ability goes off right then - you can't bank that effect for later. Since every effect is, essentially, immediate, the actual use of immediate becomes a timing discriminator - if two effects go off with the same trigger, effects which specify "immediately" go first.

If you could save your second action from PtL until after your maneuver, why not until after all other ships have moved? Why couldn't you save it until next turn? Why not put R2-D2 on an X-wing, start with 3 green maneuvers, but hold the abilities to use once you've taken damage?

The rules, honestly, don't spell this out as directly as we might like... but the alternative is pretty silly, and it's not COMPLETELY unsupported. For example, page 9: Card abilities without the “Action:” header may be resolved when specified on the card and do not count as the ship’s action. The trigger condition indicates when the ability should be resolved; it's not just something that has to happen to "load" the ability for later use.

Editing to add: This really isn't anything new with Push the Limit. It could always trigger from an action that happened at an odd time. Possibilities include Lando or Squad Leader passing an action, Turr's ability, and now Advanced Sensors. Nothing new, and certainly not in need of an errata.

Actual Turr is a great example as to why this would happen. This is a free action done after the the action phase, but allows the use of PTL. Also R2-D2 is another great example, it allows you to spend him before or after an asteriod hit. The time tables they have given us just help with wanting to know the definition to this. What this really comes down to is, not storing the point, not holding an action, but during a ships allotted movement/action turn, would he not be able to take the action after the maneuver, its a free action, giving another free action? As the OP stated before, there are cards that explicitly state IMMEDIATE, IE right after the situation it states.

Don't derail this to saving for during other ships movement, or a few turns down the line, this is a question about timing during one persons allotted period for a ship. I personally believe that the movement would break this combo, but there is no hard rule saying it does, no where does it state this either, just how normal turn flow would go. If you start to try to say that is reasonable for it to be that way, well half the things in this game arent reasonable, but they work via rules and the environment they build IE stealth device not breaking due to environmental or AoE damage but only direct attacks.

I personally really would like to know of this because this was brought up in my game tonight as well. I told the other player that I would allow it if he wanted to because by the reading of the rules, it makes sense, but at the same time it doesnt.

This guy gets it. I'm not saying I want to necessarily do this or whathaveyou, I just have a question about the wording and timing of the game pertaining to this situation and would like evidence as to why it would or why it would not be allowed. I personally think it should not be allowed but I am a curious person and would like to have definitive proof regarding this question.

If you have two abilities that go off after performing an action, you get to choose the order unless one specifies immediately. You don't get to wait longer than that.

Because then you have this situation as well. If the B or lambda in question is stressed, and has advanced sensors, it should still be able to do its action, which then can trigger PTL because all of that is based on free actions.

If we go off the fact that the FAQ trumps the original rule book of no actions/free or otherwise while stressed; With Adv sensors, you MAY get a free action outside the perform an action step, then PTL can chain off that, which makes it an amazing 4 point card. You basically just got Tycho in a B-wing.

Before I derail this to much I just wanted to use this as another example on the "reasonability" of this game, you can see how the rules they state dont simply make sense sometime when it obviously should be one way. That B-wing shouldn't be allowed to take 2 more actions when its stressed, but it just did. So I don't see why it wouldn't be reasonable to be pushing the limit on a fighter to perform another action after maneuvering, because the wording is there to allow this to happen. No where does it state if two actions happen, they have to follow each other, just that they have to happen before the ship is done with its turn. The reason for that, is because till now, that wasn't an issue.

Stress doesn't make you skip the "perform actions" step, it prevents actions, even free ones.

Stress doesn't make you skip the "perform actions" step, it prevents actions, even free ones.

Tell me how Lando is ruled to give a free action to his stressed out buddies then.

Tell me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0YCt_fUwGE

That's a new one to me. I don't see it in the FAQ.

That's a new one to me. I don't see it in the FAQ.

Pg 2 under section "General" third question in the furthest left Collumn.

Stress doesn't make you skip the "perform actions" step, it prevents actions, even free ones.

Ok, so you are then stating that the FAQ means nothing and that the rule corrections stated in it are completely worthless? Or is it that you don't read what others say before posting your blatantly dry and none helpful replies? Fair enough.

As I have stated,

You see that little part, that says:

IF YOU USE THIS ABILITY, YOU MUST SKIP YOUR "PERFORM ACTION" STEP DURING THIS ROUND.

Thus meaning, this is all taking place outside of the perform action step, which then brings us back to the FAQ that reads as:

Q: If a ship is required to skip its “Perform

I know that some of the text is small, and you might of missed it when i posted it before. So I made it a little bigger for your ease.

I understand that stress disallows free actions, but the wording on this card, and the FAQ make it seem like you are allowed to perform that, even though the stress should disallow it. I apologize if I am getting a bit rambunctious at this late hour.

I fail to see where it says you get to ignore the effect of stress. You're stretching that ruling too far.

Edit: Again, you're ignoring what stress actually does. It specifically removes your ability to take actions, even free ones. It does NOT make you skip the Perform Actions step. That ruling has zero relevance to this situation.

I will agree that it is indeed stretching it. Like I said, I don't personally believe it should be done that way due to stress canceling it out. How the rules state it, and how you can interpret the rules can cause an infinite loop that can cause issues like this to happen.

You have to agree though, there is no where that says actions have to play out a certain way if there is no immediate after it, just that they have to before that ship is done with its personal allotted turn, whether or not there is a movement in between them caused by adv sensors.

Edit: Holy jebus fish my spelling goes down hill quickly at this hour.

You have to agree though, there is no were that says actions have to play out a certain way if there is no immediate after it, just that they have to before that ship is done with its personal allotted turn, whether or not there is a movement in between them caused by adv sensors.

I don't have to agree with that. It makes no sense to do so.

Then please state where in the rule book or FAQ, its says, When using Adv. Sensors, one must use a PTL action BEFORE movement is done. For all actions must follow another action, with no immediate interruption, when the card does not state it is to follow immediately. Or something similar will work as well. Please and thank you.

Edit: On the subject of stress: I always seem to make an arse of myself when I derail a thread then later look at the derailed comment and have to laugh, but either way the wording on some of this stuff sucks. And I apologize to the OP for derailing it cause I didn't understand a wording. Fun game though.

Edit Edit: Or even that PTL is an immediate event after an action was performed would be good as well. As it stands the card says after performing an action, which you have done with that ship via the word YOU, but before performing the maneuver you had assigned to the ship.

I mean, why limit it to its own turn? If we're going to assume you can bank actions as long as you like unless very specifically indicated otherwise, why limit it to your ship's specific turn?

I mean, why limit it to its own turn? If we're going to assume you can bank actions as long as you like unless very specifically indicated otherwise, why limit it to your ship's specific turn?

Seriously dude, have I not stated this blatantly enough for you, I do not want to bank anything, this is going off the wording of this card. I am not trying to do anything out side of the ships turn, nor am I wanting to. I have a question on when a card can be triggered due to wording on a chain combo effect card. By all means and rules in this game, PTL is not an immediate action, you have performed an action before a maneuver, which just means that it was done one step before hand. Once the ship has had its turn, all open actions, whether you took them or not, are gone, all is final.

I find it hilarious that you keep bring that up, which is something I nor the OP have never stated wanting to know about and the ruling on that is quite clear that once a ships turn is done, it is done, even if it has not had an action assigned to it, thus meaning you can no longer chain off it.

Normal:

Maneuver -> Action -> PTL if available -> End of ship's turn, continue to next PS level

Adv Sensor:

Action -> maneuver -> Skipped action phase -> Since it still is technically following a action: PTL if available -> End of ship's turn, continue to next PS level

There is no ruling right now, stating that PTL could not be used, while still being in the ships designated turn, but after a maneuver instead of after a action, but with an action being used that turn on that ship. Though neither is there a ruling saying it can. I personally want to know if there is any rule, stating that this is acceptable or not.