This is a subject that is close to the hearts of my group and me. FFG has a really bad habit of making PDFs that run slowly and poorly on computers and tablets. This has been the case for multiple game lines, and rule books for board games. I remember almost laughing about how well the black and white only war pdf worked in comparison. FFG also has, to my knowledge the most expensive PDFs on the market. I want people to take a moment to watch this:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=biBxNCZ1d1s&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbiBxNCZ1d1s

This PDF was made by one person, has incredible functionality, looks gorgeous, and was made by one person. It costs less than 15 dollars. FFG needs to take note of this. It is almost unconscionable what FFG charges for these PDFs in comparison to the final product. This is not even to mention that many game companies just give the PDF away for free with purchase of a physical copy (AND update the PDF with errata). Would anyone else like to see some change for this?

Thanks for sharing this Nimsim!

I totally agree.

I agree as well.

Wait, are you saying that those who buy the corebook paper copy do not get a link to the PDF or a download of it!?

Also, I would be very shocked if they did not have basic PDF uses or in hopes of something similar to what these guys did. As I have several customer created PDFs of the DH1 books and users linked and tagged them. It just seems either lazy or simply crass towards one's own product to not put some effort into it, even if its just PDF.

The Savage Worlds PDF lets you toggle the background and images layers so that the PDF becomes printer friendly. I'd like that as an option/

Wow that 'go back to where you were before' button is great. It would be amazing if FFG wholesale stole these ideas.

Wow that 'go back to where you were before' button is great. It would be amazing if FFG wholesale stole these ideas.

You can do that with regular pdf files as well (using adobe acrobat reader). Just press alt + left/right arrow.

Wow that 'go back to where you were before' button is great. It would be amazing if FFG wholesale stole these ideas.

You can do that with regular pdf files as well (using adobe acrobat reader). Just press alt + left/right arrow.

Wow that's super handy. Thanks.

I don't like to print my PDFs. I put them on a 12" screen Ultra-Light Laptop. It is quite portable with a twist screen that will go into tablet mode. It is a little heavy for three finger use at 4 lbs.

I do not like buying paper books.

What gets me with the FFG .pdf:s is the uneven quality. It appears almost random as if you're getting it made as, say, the terrible quality of Stars of Inequity, or the superb quality of Enemies of the Imperium. Sometimes, it loads quickly and you can take out all the art assets with zero problem, and in the next .pdf, every single piece of the .pdf is broken up into 5-10 smaller pieces, each piece loading individually and being impossible to use.

The PDF in the OP kinda blew me away, though. I wonder if there's any load issues. It's hard to tell, because I have no idea what he's running it on.

I run it with Goodreader on an iPad 2 which loads each page one at a time as you use it it in order to increase speed. It can take a few seconds for intensive pages but in general most clicks and page turns take less than a second or are at the "I don't notice this" point.

Now imagine how fast it would be if it was html. And the infinitely superior navigation that would offer.

I can't imagine why any RPG publishers use pdf. Never mind that they're almost universally built to be as slow to load and render, problematic to rescale and hard to navigate as the format can get. The format itself is a laughably bad choice in the first place, and no currently existing hand-held device is better that aggravatingly bad at handling it.

I'm not saying properly userfriendly pdf's wouldn't be a million times better than the sorry stuff just about every publisher thinks is acceptable. But if it's any kind of incentive for FFG to break with the industry standard of sucking fail, I'd ... not be happy, but certainly willing to pay dead tree prices for properly done html.

Now imagine how fast it would be if it was html. And the infinitely superior navigation that would offer.

I can't imagine why any RPG publishers use pdf. Never mind that they're almost universally built to be as slow to load and render, problematic to rescale and hard to navigate as the format can get. The format itself is a laughably bad choice in the first place, and no currently existing hand-held device is better that aggravatingly bad at handling it.

I'm not saying properly userfriendly pdf's wouldn't be a million times better than the sorry stuff just about every publisher thinks is acceptable. But if it's any kind of incentive for FFG to break with the industry standard of sucking fail, I'd ... not be happy, but certainly willing to pay dead tree prices for properly done html.

PDFs are in one file. It is far more easier to manage PDFs than HTMLs. I have dealt with a couple documents on my computer in HTML format and it was a pain in the backside.

For the publishers, the PDFs has non-intrusive DRM built in. It is not so easy to do with HTML. They can encode the images, but text files are not so easy.

PDFs are in one file. It is far more easier to manage PDFs than HTMLs. I have dealt with a couple documents on my computer in HTML format and it was a pain in the backside.

In both cases there's only 1 file or shortcut you would need or want to click on, so I'm having a hard time seeing the difference.

For the publishers, the PDFs has non-intrusive DRM built in. It is not so easy to do with HTML. They can encode the images, but text files are not so easy.

Define "non-intrusive". The possibility of crippled functionality isn't an advantage of the medium to anyone who uses the product. And I'll be pretty shocked if it doesn't take me less than half as many keystrokes & clicks to find a drm-stripped pirate version of just about any pdf'ed RPG product that has ever been legally distributed digitally, than it takes me to buy such a product via Drivethru.

Meaning that for publishers it's not just wasted effort, drm most likely reduces overall sales since they can't compete on convenience and adding drm makes them unable to compete on quality.

Besides, if copy protection was a major concern I'm sure FFG would issue unique serials you'd have to register here to access the community functionality. Because that actually works, and unlike pdf drm it is absurdly difficult to circumvent.

As it is, FFG uses what everyone uses, and everyone uses that simply because it is the done thing. It's not something anyone does because they've ever thought about it, at all. It's pure herd mentality reflex.

... Not that I care to have the drm debate. It's too incendiary for whatever unreason, and at most waaay tangential to the topic. After all, we're not discussing how to get quality drm, but how to get quality game products.

PDFs are in one file. It is far more easier to manage PDFs than HTMLs. I have dealt with a couple documents on my computer in HTML format and it was a pain in the backside.

In both cases there's only 1 file or shortcut you would need or want to click on, so I'm having a hard time seeing the difference.

For the publishers, the PDFs has non-intrusive DRM built in. It is not so easy to do with HTML. They can encode the images, but text files are not so easy.

Define "non-intrusive". The possibility of crippled functionality isn't an advantage of the medium to anyone who uses the product. And I'll be pretty shocked if it doesn't take me less than half as many keystrokes & clicks to find a drm-stripped pirate version of just about any pdf'ed RPG product that has ever been legally distributed digitally, than it takes me to buy such a product via Drivethru.

Meaning that for publishers it's not just wasted effort, drm most likely reduces overall sales since they can't compete on convenience and adding drm makes them unable to compete on quality.

Besides, if copy protection was a major concern I'm sure FFG would issue unique serials you'd have to register here to access the community functionality. Because that actually works, and unlike pdf drm it is absurdly difficult to circumvent.

As it is, FFG uses what everyone uses, and everyone uses that simply because it is the done thing. It's not something anyone does because they've ever thought about it, at all. It's pure herd mentality reflex.

... Not that I care to have the drm debate. It's too incendiary for whatever unreason, and at most waaay tangential to the topic. After all, we're not discussing how to get quality drm, but how to get quality game products.

I have probably purchased over a thousand PDFs over the last decade. Managing those files in the directory structure I have is much simpler if I don't have a bunch of needless directories cluttering my existing directories. Renaming files is much easier with PDFs because you don't need to update all the files that reference as well. If I want to save some pages to my drive, I will save them as PDFs then combine them into one PDF.

PDFs allow the addition of sticky notes that you can copy and paste errata in right where it is supposed to go. A simple mouse over will display them.

PDFs have bookmarks that are the equivalent to frames with a navigation bar. Generally I find the navigation bar frames lacking in detail on web pages. Now I will agree that some publishers do not put bookmarks in, but FFG does. They have good bookmarking.

PDFs allow for vector graphics. Now I don't think FFG has used that feature, but I have purchased PDFs with charts and maps done in vector graphics that I can export to PNG at incredibly high resolutions. This allows me to add additional notes to the maps.

PDF pages are formatted to the size of paper, so if you need to print it out, it will print nicely.

The DRM used that I support is watermarking. It does not disable the PDF, only encodes some digital bits that can identify the purchaser of the PDF. Maybe they can strip this, maybe not. It is not important to me. I think that the fact that it is still used tells me that the stripping is not all that effective to remove all traces of digital watermarking. My guess is that scanning the book is easier.

Now I will admit that with surfing the web, I prefer to view HTML. I kind of dislike hitting a PDF on the web. I generally right click and "save as" as opposed to opening in a web page to read them.

EDIT: PDFs also support hyperlinking. FFG uses this feature as well.

I have probably purchased over a thousand PDFs over the last decade. Managing those files in the directory structure I have is much simpler if I don't have a bunch of needless directories cluttering my existing directories. Renaming files is much easier with PDFs because you don't need to update all the files that reference as well.

With HTML5, entire websites can be combined into a single file.

PDFs allow the addition of sticky notes that you can copy and paste errata in right where it is supposed to go. A simple mouse over will display them.

HTML files can be easily modified through a simple download, eliminating the need for separate errata files to begin with.

PDFs have bookmarks that are the equivalent to frames with a navigation bar. Generally I find the navigation bar frames lacking in detail on web pages. Now I will agree that some publishers do not put bookmarks in, but FFG does. They have good bookmarking.

HTML pages can have nested navigation, just like a pdf's bookmarks.

PDFs allow for vector graphics. Now I don't think FFG has used that feature, but I have purchased PDFs with charts and maps done in vector graphics that I can export to PNG at incredibly high resolutions. This allows me to add additional notes to the maps.

HTML5 allows for scalable vector graphics. Additionally, there's also the potential for animated SVGs.

PDF pages are formatted to the size of paper, so if you need to print it out, it will print nicely.

HTML pages can be coded to print on standard size paper.

The DRM used that I support is watermarking. It does not disable the PDF, only encodes some digital bits that can identify the purchaser of the PDF. Maybe they can strip this, maybe not. It is not important to me. I think that the fact that it is still used tells me that the stripping is not all that effective to remove all traces of digital watermarking. My guess is that scanning the book is easier.

There's debate over whether to include DRM in HTML, and if so to what extent, so I can't really say if it would be better. DRM can pretty much always be defeated, though.

Watermarking may not be effective but that's not really important. It's more important that companies are seen to be taking steps to protect their property. Think of how an insurance company might not pay out your policy if you're burgled and don't have good locks on your house.

EDIT: PDFs also support hyperlinking. FFG uses this feature as well.

I don't think I need to answer this point.

All in all, there's not really much that HTML can't do these days. With HTML5, the W3C have aimed to make it as inclusive as possible. HTML is also widely accessible across a huge number of The biggest hurdle is that committing a rulebook to HTML is not as simple as with a pdf (especially if you don't optimise the pdf, like FFG).

I'd honestly prefer if the concept of 'books' for digital RPG content was dumped entirely. Keep books for print media, but when it comes to digital, there's so much more potential for convenience. A large, searchable database which compiles all rules from all books with automatically added errata would be brilliant. I don't see why more developers aren't playing to the strengths of the digital medium honestly.

I'd honestly prefer if the concept of 'books' for digital RPG content was dumped entirely. Keep books for print media, but when it comes to digital, there's so much more potential for convenience. A large, searchable database which compiles all rules from all books with automatically added errata would be brilliant. I don't see why more developers aren't playing to the strengths of the digital medium honestly.

This. So much this.

Why developers haven't started working more closely with things like Roll20 also baffles me. Imagine if FFG facilitated the creation of digital tilesets and such to be bundled alongside features that you describe.

A unified continuously developed overreaching ruleset, a number of system subsets, all digitized, properly formatted and properly errata:d, available online and offline, with web functionality or interfacing with other platforms that do have web functionality (such as Roll20).

I'm throwing my money at the monitor but nothing is happening!

I'd honestly prefer if the concept of 'books' for digital RPG content was dumped entirely. Keep books for print media, but when it comes to digital, there's so much more potential for convenience. A large, searchable database which compiles all rules from all books with automatically added errata would be brilliant. I don't see why more developers aren't playing to the strengths of the digital medium honestly.

This. So much this.

Why developers haven't started working more closely with things like Roll20 also baffles me. Imagine if FFG facilitated the creation of digital tilesets and such to be bundled alongside features that you describe.

A unified continuously developed overreaching ruleset, a number of system subsets, all digitized, properly formatted and properly errata:d, available online and offline, with web functionality or interfacing with other platforms that do have web functionality (such as Roll20).

I'm throwing my money at the monitor but nothing is happening!

Thirded!

But even something as basic as this would be infinitely preferable to a very theoretical "ideal pdf".

I'd honestly prefer if the concept of 'books' for digital RPG content was dumped entirely. Keep books for print media, but when it comes to digital, there's so much more potential for convenience. A large, searchable database which compiles all rules from all books with automatically added errata would be brilliant. I don't see why more developers aren't playing to the strengths of the digital medium honestly.

This. So much this.

Why developers haven't started working more closely with things like Roll20 also baffles me. Imagine if FFG facilitated the creation of digital tilesets and such to be bundled alongside features that you describe.

A unified continuously developed overreaching ruleset, a number of system subsets, all digitized, properly formatted and properly errata:d, available online and offline, with web functionality or interfacing with other platforms that do have web functionality (such as Roll20).

I'm throwing my money at the monitor but nothing is happening!

Thirded!

But even something as basic as this would be infinitely preferable to a very theoretical "ideal pdf".

The entire body is a table. It is an abomination.

(and wouldn't work well on tablets)

The entire body is a table. It is an abomination.

(and wouldn't work well on tablets)

And yet, despite not being particularly great and being designed without tablets etc. in mind, it's still infinitely superior to any pdf I've ever seen, whether we're talking about using desktops, mobile phones or anything in between. Hence the link.

Please don't get me wrong here, ideally I want the same thing Tom Cruise wants. But man... Even something that's just equal to the SRD, I'd give my left arm for. Or at least pay good money for.

As things are, the industry standard for digital RPG products (which FFG happens to subscribe to) results in products that can't compete with their dead tree versions. Which is completely absurd. I do love a nice bookshelf full of game books, but for actual playing, books are a terrible format.