Why doesn't the standard Y-wing allow for a named gunner (i.e. a second crew member, a la gunner extraordinaire Wes Janson?)

Maybe I am mis-remembering the cards (not in front of me right now)

The same reason General Horton Salm, one of the biggest studs of the Star Wars EU, doesn't have an Elite Pilot Talent. The reason is.... there is no reason. The Y-Wing should have a crew slot, and Salm (at least) should have an EPT.

Well the lack of crew slot does have a valid reason. That being it wasn't a type of upgrade that existed yet. Sure they could have put it out earlier but maybe they though that since the Y-wing was already getting one as of then unique upgrade type with the turret that it would be a balance issue.

I agree that Horton should have an elite talent though. And unlike the crew issue we are unlikely to see it fixed when FFG announces their Y-wing Aces pack.

Game balance. Crew slot + astromech slot + elite slot + torpedoes + turret = pretty silly.

This game is an ABSTRACTION.

Also, though the EU does feature 2 seaters, the movies all portrayed Y-Wings as one crew joint strike fighters.

It's possible that a title could come out allowing for a crew slot. Imagine Chewie in the back seat... "It's getting a little stuffy in here..."

I don't think it would be that silly. Filling all those slots, even with the cheapest choices available so far, would be 15 points, and that's with the cheapest things you can get. The Y-wing was pretty easy to mod which was why it stayed in use decades after it was supposed to be phased out. I don't think giving it that aspect in the game would break anything, especially since the Y-wing is generally considered one of the weaker ships in the game.

It is most certainly NOT silly to have two people in a two-seater.

The game is not that much of an abstraction.

Most everything else, ship-wise, was baked into the rules.

It's not that you would stack it out with one of each, that's far too expensive. The issue is the combinations you could create on one ship because of having access to any type of upgrade. Imagine Dutch with the weapons engi, for example.

Having a generic crew slot for the Y wing would be weird. It would need to have a specific "Y wing only" clause. I would love it if it allowed a turret weapon (I am looking at you blaster turret!) to fire without costing focus to use. That woud be worth at least 2 points. It would reflect the fact that the pilot is concentrating more on flying and the gunner's sole job is to "focus" on shooting. If used with an Ion cannon turret it could have some other benefit, maybe allowing the pilot and gunner to fire separately at the same time as an "Action", so neither could use focus or target lock (unless given by a third party).

It's not a tumor!

It's not a two seater! (In the movies)

There is apparently a sub-model that is according to some EU BS.

Actually, I had thought about a Y-Wing only title "BTL-S3"

BTL-S3

The BTL-S3 has a weapons officer seated directly behind the pilot. The Weapons Officer handles the electronic warfare systems and allows the pilot to concentrate on piloting the ship. The Y-Wing may acquire a free target lock at the beginning of the Combat phase.

Just a thought.

And as for Horton? Easy. The next FAQ says "Horton Salm's card has a misprint, and should have had a *medal* included in the upgrade bar. Horton Salm may take an Elite Pilot Talent.

And as for Horton? Easy. The next FAQ says "Horton Salm's card has a misprint, and should have had a *medal* included in the upgrade bar. Horton Salm may take an Elite Pilot Talent.

They could just release a 'Commander Horton Salm' or a 'Horton Salm, Grey Leader' as alternative Hortons with a different set of abilities.

If they did they'd probably use the same name since they've already established that Luke, Vader, and Chewie can be either pilots or crew but can't be both in one battle. So an "early career" and "Veteran" version of pilots is possible.

The thing with giving it crew, I could see it having a Gunner.. I couldn't see it having a Weapons Engineer or many of the other options, crammed in that little extra seat.

I think a simple Title that proclaims the Y-Wing to have a secondary gunner would do the job much better than a Crew slot.

Something along the lines of, Title: Y-Wing with Gunner (yeah we can think of something better), cost 3, May change one EYE into a Critical.

This is an easy fix and I'll almost guarantee we see it in the next year. They just do a Y-wing only title or, more likely, modification that is called Turret Gunner or something, and adds a die to turret attack rolls, or lets you change something to something more useful, or extends turrets to range 3. Something along those lines.

They could also add a Title card of "Veteran" or something where a pilot with a PS above 5 or 7 or whatever can take an EPS.

A gunner Title would also be nice

It's not a two seater! (In the movies)

I think you are wrong.

Even if not specifically in the movies, it was in WEG RPG material, which is some of the best, most thoroughly researched and official stuff out there.

The standard BTL-S3 has two seats, the BTL-A4 was single seat, as was the sensor-loaded "Longprobe" version.

I should correct myself.

According to Wookieepedia :

The BTL-A4 was a one-man version of the S3, which removed the gunner position and locked down the overhead ion cannon.

It was used commonly by pirate, mercenary, and private defense forces, and therefore was also used by the early Rebel Alliance as the primary starfighter for bombing and disabling roles. As the BTL-S3 became the primary Y-wing variant of the Rebel forces, the A4 was still kept in many units as a supplementary craft. However, Red and Gold Squadrons favored ^[16] the A4 variant of the Y-wing and used it with distinction in several climactic battles, such as the Battle of Yavin , the capture of the Death Star II plans from the Imperial freighter Suprosa ^{[17] [18]} , and the subsequent Battle of Endor .

However, by the Battle of Endor (also according to Wookieepedia ), it appears the change-over to the S3 was complete, as Horton Salm is listed specifically as having Kin Kian as his gunner.

The Gold Squadron Pilot card in the X-Wing game specifically mentions the BTL-A4 (single seater).

Gold Squadron was said to have fought at the Battle of Yavin, while Gray Squadron was not formed until after the Battle of Hoth.

Perhaps we will see the BTL-S3 as a new card in the future, with the option of adding a second crew member.

I would love that, personally.

Horton was grey leader however. So if it was Gold the favored the single seaters and Grey used the "standard" two seat configuration then that has no real bearing.

There were two versions of the y wing.

The Btl-s3 version which was introduced later had a two seater version.

The developers said they wanted to add a two seater version personally I rather they just create new pilot cards for the repaint versions and not make it a title. There is also no reason they can't just make a two seater Horton version and give him elite talents this time around. Maybe the newer version was just easier to maneuver. Also they could make a bomber modification for a y wing since that was another version as well. The lack of manueverabilty of the y wing was made up for by extensive modifications Allowed on a y wing.

the two seater was not a later 'upgrade' though.

anakin flew a Y wing (full cowl with 'snips' as gunner) during the clone wars...... and funnily is probably the reason we see yellow, white and grey versions in the films. (i know its just coincidence that it worked that way, but ani's squad in CW was in 'his' naboo fighter colours that he used in most of his ships till the azure angel 1@2 were made and then used again on his eta 2).

so two seater's make more sense, though the model is definitely the single seat fixed cannon variant.... but easily modded to have bubble turret.

Just because the Y-Wing does not have a "Crew" slot in the game doesn't mean that it is necessarilly a single or two-seater. In the game, the Ion Turret is an option and has 360-degree fire. This sounds like a "gunner" is included (who else is operating the turret? A Droid? (no, Astromechs have to be purchased seperately but are not required for turret use) The Millenium Falcon (YT-1300) can fire its two quad-laser turrets 360-degrees even if you don't purchase any "Crew". Again, somebody is firing those guns. If the ship's computer van do it, then why did Han and Luke (an untrained gunner) have to man the turrets?

Yeah, its a game design thing but just because there is no "Crew" slot, does not meant that there is no "crew", itg is simply listed in the capabilities of the weapon upgrade itself.

And, yeah, the good Colonel got screwed out of an elite pilot tallent (unless you consider the text he already has as a "built-in" EPT that you don't have to pay extra for).

My two cents...

Chris

I don't think it would be that silly. Filling all those slots, even with the cheapest choices available so far, would be 15 points, and that's with the cheapest things you can get. The Y-wing was pretty easy to mod which was why it stayed in use decades after it was supposed to be phased out. I don't think giving it that aspect in the game would break anything, especially since the Y-wing is generally considered one of the weaker ships in the game.

But i agree the Y-Wing should have Crew upgrade and Salm should have an elite slot. Absolutely no doubt about it.

The lack io crew can be explained because those slots were not present on any ship until wave 2. So its just bad timing or something like that. The missing elite talent has no explanation though

Technically it is a three seater.... droids have feelings too!

I don't think it would be that silly. Filling all those slots, even with the cheapest choices available so far, would be 15 points, and that's with the cheapest things you can get. The Y-wing was pretty easy to mod which was why it stayed in use decades after it was supposed to be phased out. I don't think giving it that aspect in the game would break anything, especially since the Y-wing is generally considered one of the weaker ships in the game.

That's right. The Y-Wing would not be too powerful if he had a crew slot. Okay when i see Wave 3 now i would prefer the Y-Wing over the hawk if it had a crew slot. The good thing is that it sets the 2 ships apart.

But i agree the Y-Wing should have Crew upgrade and Salm should have an elite slot. Absolutely no doubt about it.

The lack io crew can be explained because those slots were not present on any ship until wave 2. So its just bad timing or something like that. The missing elite talent has no explanation though

Well the Hwk is cheaper, harder to hit, and it's named pilots all have much better range on their abilities than dutch so it would still have a place in the grand scheme of things. Plus the Y-wing just looks cooler anyway which is half the reason I've always loved them since my first watching of Ep IV.

Technically it is a three seater.... droids have feelings too!

But astromechs have no butts and therefore can't use seats