hi there,

can a character at generation get 3 ranks in a skill if they have a racial skill?

example a twilek politico has a racial rank in charm, then has access to charm as a colonist and further excess to charm as a politico.

thanks

nope, sorry

nope, sorry

I concur.

don't apologise. as the gm i was running a guy through creation and it was a question that came up.

thanks for the answers.

Page 92: Skill Training says ... Regardless of any species or career bonuses, no skill can start higher than 2.

Of course its your game and you can do what you all agree on.

You can't get a 3 with species, career, and/or specialization alone, but you can have a 3 before you roll your first test. If you can get to a 2 during character generation and have saved 15 XP, all you have to do is wait until the moment play begins and then spend it to raise the skill to 3 (assuming that group Obligation hasn't hit 100).

You can't get a 3 with species, career, and/or specialization alone, but you can have a 3 before you roll your first test. If you can get to a 2 during character generation and have saved 15 XP, all you have to do is wait until the moment play begins and then spend it to raise the skill to 3 (assuming that group Obligation hasn't hit 100).

Only if the GM allows it and since that, in my opinion, goes against the spirit of the rules I'd say no. If you could do that there really is no point saying max starting ranks is 2. Any saved exp from character generation can't be used until after the first session.

You can't get a 3 with species, career, and/or specialization alone, but you can have a 3 before you roll your first test. If you can get to a 2 during character generation and have saved 15 XP, all you have to do is wait until the moment play begins and then spend it to raise the skill to 3 (assuming that group Obligation hasn't hit 100).

Only if the GM allows it and since that, in my opinion, goes against the spirit of the rules I'd say no. If you could do that there really is no point saying max starting ranks is 2. Any saved exp from character generation can't be used until after the first session.

The point in the restriction is preventing 'free ranks' from adding up above 3. This is because the 'free ranks' are effectively providing more benefit in terms of XP if they are stacked. If two ranks both go into one Career skill, it's worth 15 XP while one rank in each of two Career skills is only worth 10 XP. If it were allowable to stack up to three ranks in one skill, it would be worth 30 XP compared to 15 XP, and that's stretching things a bit more.

I don't think that there is anything in the rules limiting XP expenditure to between sessions.

You can't get a 3 with species, career, and/or specialization alone, but you can have a 3 before you roll your first test. If you can get to a 2 during character generation and have saved 15 XP, all you have to do is wait until the moment play begins and then spend it to raise the skill to 3 (assuming that group Obligation hasn't hit 100).

Only if the GM allows it and since that, in my opinion, goes against the spirit of the rules I'd say no. If you could do that there really is no point saying max starting ranks is 2. Any saved exp from character generation can't be used until after the first session.

The point in the restriction is preventing 'free ranks' from adding up above 3. This is because the 'free ranks' are effectively providing more benefit in terms of XP if they are stacked. If two ranks both go into one Career skill, it's worth 15 XP while one rank in each of two Career skills is only worth 10 XP. If it were allowable to stack up to three ranks in one skill, it would be worth 30 XP compared to 15 XP, and that's stretching things a bit more.

I don't think that there is anything in the rules limiting XP expenditure to between sessions.

The rules suggest that there are proper times and places for training (leveling), otherwise being over obligation wouldn't hinder it.

Also the suggestion that one should wait till starting the game them BAM a skill up to three would be munchkin, and the game is intended to avoid this.

That would just leave a bad taste in my mouth, talk about sending up red flags.

I need some wine to go with this cheese. Any suggestions?

Happydaze is completely correct. If they have saved 15 xp from the character creation process, as soon as play starts they can increase their career skill they put two ranks into during character creation to rank 3. Pg. 93 "Characters may purchase ranks in skills during character creation or later during gameplay". I don't know what this lot is going on about regarding red flags or cheese or whatnot. This is the most openly jerky to crunch RPG forum I've ever seen, as soon as they sniff anything vaguely crunch based it is all "not in muh game you won't" or "muh immersions". It is bizarre. Ignore them, and tell your player he is well within his rights.

Happydaze is completely correct. If they have saved 15 xp from the character creation process, as soon as play starts they can increase their career skill they put two ranks into during character creation to rank 3. Pg. 93 "Characters may purchase ranks in skills during character creation or later during gameplay". I don't know what this lot is going on about regarding red flags or cheese or whatnot. This is the most openly jerky to crunch RPG forum I've ever seen, as soon as they sniff anything vaguely crunch based it is all "not in muh game you won't" or "muh immersions". It is bizarre. Ignore them, and tell your player he is well within his rights.

The fact that this game is designed to be narrative tends to attract people who are into narrative games such as FATE and those who run even "crunchy" games with narrative flair and requirements. That is why when someone starts talking about being silly with the narrative that people get defensive and upset. It doesn't compute with the seeming concept behind the game.

So, groups should do what they want with the game. Crunchy, not crunchy. Whatever. I wouldn't be surprised about people acting weird about the concept on the forums though when the game concept is seemingly corrupted.

It would be like complaining that Rolemaster or Battlelords needs to be more free-form and open.

Sure, they just don't have to be such jerks about it. Op has a rules question, happydaze explains how to do what they want by the rules of the game, and people race to see who can be the first person to tell him off. It is hostile and off putting to say the least.

The rules suggest that there are proper times and places for training (leveling), otherwise being over obligation wouldn't hinder it.

Also the suggestion that one should wait till starting the game them BAM a skill up to three would be munchkin, and the game is intended to avoid this.

That would just leave a bad taste in my mouth, talk about sending up red flags.

I need some wine to go with this cheese. Any suggestions?

Neither of this really seems to be that hostile.

Shamrock is simply stating a preference and saying that a player asking him to do such would send up red flags for him as a GM. And MouthyMerc, while perhaps a bit rough, is stating that he believes that the improvement without the proper narrative is cheesy. Although, I might find it more insulting if it was reversed. I wonder why that would be? Is saying someone is whining more offensive? Perhaps because the whining is directed at a person rather than the desire?

Frankly, I agree with him. Narrative games can be easily broken if the GM isn't firm on making things make narrative sense. So while I would stand up for anyone to play the game the way their group wants to, I would be quick to deny that to my players.

Later during play is a pretty vague way to put it. I normally only allow XP expenditure between adventures, or possibly during large periods of downtime. That being said, I don't see why you couldn't do it differently if you want, it is not forbidden in the rules (not that you can't just ignore the rules anyway).

I will say it doesn't make sense to cap Skills at 2 if the intent is to allow players to raise to 3 or more the very second Character Creation is over. No need for a cap at all if that is the intent.

Fang and Bobus are right on here. The intention and spirit of character creation is crystal clear. XP during creation is much better spent improving attributes anyway. /shrug

Fang and Bobus are right on here. The intention and spirit of character creation is crystal clear. XP during creation is much better spent improving attributes anyway. /shrug

I was simply stating my preference. House Rules are made to make gaming groups happier.

By RAW, no, 2 is the max to start with.

But I personally wouldn't see it as game-breaking if a Rodian started with Survival 3 or a Bothan with Streetwise 3... *shrug*

Someone mentioned Fate above, and when I led my players through character generation last week for a game that we haven't actually started yet, I took a bit of inspiration from Fate and the players briefly name an adventure they had in their back story. Each player then described the role their character played in the adventure named by the player to his left. We only had three players at the table, so I only did one round. This tied each character to both of the others and gave some small background "hook" for each. I awarded 5 XP per "prior" adventure, for a total of 10 points, but didn't treat it as Character Creation XP, so it can't be used to raise Characteristics. If I'd had 4 or more players, I would have done a second round of "what role did you play" for a total of 15 XP, and in that case I would have allowed that XP to be spent to raise a single career skill from 2 to 3.

Someone mentioned Fate above, and when I led my players through character generation last week for a game that we haven't actually started yet, I took a bit of inspiration from Fate and the players briefly name an adventure they had in their back story. Each player then described the role their character played in the adventure named by the player to his left. We only had three players at the table, so I only did one round. This tied each character to both of the others and gave some small background "hook" for each. I awarded 5 XP per "prior" adventure, for a total of 10 points, but didn't treat it as Character Creation XP, so it can't be used to raise Characteristics. If I'd had 4 or more players, I would have done a second round of "what role did you play" for a total of 15 XP, and in that case I would have allowed that XP to be spent to raise a single career skill from 2 to 3.

Sounds like a fun house rule to get players linked up.

Sounds like a fun house rule to get players linked up.

That's the "stealth" purpose. It pushes the question of why these people adventure together into the background, but still leaves the answer to that question in player hands.

Why stop there, then? At character creation start. What would prevent a player from hording xp and waiting to see what they needed and spending it "on the fly" to get exactly the skill they needed?

"What the target is too far for my pistol?" "No body is able to shoot that rifle proficiently?" "BAM, I just learned heavy" "Give me the rifle".

While you "could" do that, how does that help the spirit of the game? I couldn't see an argument against it, given the aforementioned "learn on the fly" notation.

GM: You guys find this broken down freighter

Players: Loot it.

Just started Doc: Glad I know how to fly and mechanics. I'm putting my points into them currently. I fix it and fly away.

I'm sorry if some of you more sensitive types found my rather mundane post "hostile". I’m not sure how I could have placed it more pleasantly. Perhaps offering some tea, and a crumpet to go with it? Maybe hold your hand while we discuss it.

In my games I require a bit “more” from a player then I pluck skills out of midair. I would view that as an insult. If I’m spending my time working with and creating adventures, the least a player could do is to put forth the littlest bit of effort.

In some manner I usually account for training, even if left unsaid, with it occurring between adventures or at key points in the game where it seems logical. “you guys are meeting a client at X gun range. Anyone want to polish up some shooter skills?”.

The whole point of "experience" is learning through living. If a character hasn't lived beyond the creation point, there isn't anything to learn from. That's just how I see it. Sorry if it doesn't jell with your views, which I find offensive, by the way, because they are too D20 (Jest),

Regardless, play how makes you happy. Run how makes you happy. If you don't want the opinions of others, or others to share their "experiences" with you, then don't post in a public area and invite criticism/discussion. At the very least caveat it with a "if you don't agree with me, you are wrong. I don't care what you have to say I'm just here to spout off" or something else to let me know that interactions with you are a waste of my time.

(Notice: this isn't addressed to anyone, it's not quoting anyone, it's just being thrown out there..l. if it applies to you, then that's on you.)

Someone mentioned Fate above, and when I led my players through character generation last week for a game that we haven't actually started yet, I took a bit of inspiration from Fate and the players briefly name an adventure they had in their back story.

You're doing it wrong! Stop that at once! That has no place in a narrative game like EoE!

And awarding extra XP will completely destroy the balance of the game and force FFG to raid your house and take your books away for gross misuse!

if that's not obvious...)

Why stop there, then? At character creation start. What would prevent a player from hording xp and waiting to see what they needed and spending it "on the fly" to get exactly the skill they needed?

I don't think I'd want that for every game, but it's not necessarily such a bad idea. In effect, you'd just be playing character generation rather than doing it before play starts.

"What the target is too far for my pistol?" "No body is able to shoot that rifle proficiently?" "BAM, I just learned heavy" "GIve me the rifle". While you "could" do that, how does that help the spirit of the game? I couldn't see an argument against it, given the aforementioned "learn on the fly" notation.

You wouldn't necessarily need to characterize that as learn on the fly. It might just be a revelation of skill the character already possessed.

Player A: "Nobody is able to shoot that rifle proficiently?"

Player B: <Marks off 5 xp> "I am. We all hunted womp rats back on Tatooine. Give me the rifle."

i like tea.