How can a man who has done all this:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kir_Kanos

NOT have the option of an Elite Pilot talent? That's what I want to know...

my only issue with Kanos is those three naked dice aren't reliable enough to make his ability worthwhile. He has to evade often for his ability to work, but rarely will you get more than 1-2 hits out if those three dice. I like this squad:

Carnor Jax

+ Push the Limit

Howlrunner

+ Squad Leader

Kir Kanos

+ Stealth Device

2 Academies

@kineticoperator mentioned something like this, too. This way, he flies around as part of the Swarmlet, gets a reroll and focus from Howlrunner, and spends his evade for 4 damage while Jax denies tokens. If he doesn't need that focus, keep it for his defense. Let the Swarmlet close in a bit and let him being up the rear so he stays at range for extra defense and because his ability doesn't work at range 1 anyway.

I don't agree with what was said about Carnor.

We have several threads on Jax, but to me Kir Kanos has much more potential for his cost. Jax's ability to preventing the use of a focus / evade token is likely to allow one more point through (less on low agility ships) on the first shot of the round, but after that is fairly meaningless. A ship that takes fire from multiple sources generally doesn't have a focus/evade available to guard against the later attacks anyway.

Kir Kanos on the other hand, can add the same net damage, do so consistently, and most importantly do it AFTER seeing whether it will do him any good to do so.

.

Lets look at the cards first.

24 Points for Kir Kanos no EPT and his ability that affects only him. PS 6

26 Points for Carnor Jax, EPT, ability that affects enemy ships. PS8

To me if I have the points I would rather go with Carnor for the EPT or drop down to a royal guard and gain the EPT. Without it interceptors are not worth their points as they are just as fragile as a tie fighter.

Lets look at Carnors ability.

Any enemy ship at range one cannot take the evade/focus action and cannot spend evade/focus tokens in combat.

Interceptors are the kings of dogfighting. Their template is greater than almost any ship (other than yt1300). What part of Carnors ability do you not like? I don't understand how you would only get to use his ability in the first round. You need to work on your piloting if this is the case. The other part is how you said they normally burn their focus/evade, well with Carnor they DON'T GET TO PERIOD. Which not only destroys their evade dice, but their attack dice as well. If there are 2 Ships within Carnor Jax's ability in my mind you have already paid for his ability over Kir Kanos. If you are going against a high PS squad like Wedge/Biggs/Luke, or any combination for that matter, denying focus can easily be the difference between life and death.

On the right wing bonus end of Carnors ability, you deny any of the HWK or Y-wing blaster turrets their use, making them try to float at range 2 which can be difficult with their dials. You deny anyone using Deadeye or APT. You can also deny the use of PTL if a ship only has TL/Focus, well then they don't get to PTL because they can't focus, or they use it get in range 1 and are now stressed for no reason.

Compare all this to Kir Kanos. While Kanos can use an evade to add 1 hit, most of the talk here is as if I'm going to roll 3/4 hits naturally. Kanos is reliable on not only rerolls but squad leader as well. Meaning you will have to pair him with Howlrunner, period. His ability isn't as great as Jax either. Sure saving your evade token is great or using it for damage. But what happens when you roll 3 Eyeballs on evade? To me evade actions are alway secondary to focus and I see Kir Kanos being a primary focus for enemy ships to take out, simply because his ability boasts not using focus.

Now what is the difference between Kir Kanos at range 2-3 and Carnor at range 1? Well Carnor can maneuver around and even if action denied still make a difference and a possibility at 4 damage. Avoids most ordinance including the new ion torps and flechette missiles.

After the end all I only find myself going with Carnor or a Royal Guard over Kir Kanos any day

Kir just needs to get an additional focus somehow - and he is fine.

The downside is on the imperial side that apart of 'Squad Leader' there is no chance to hand a focus.

So, Vader comes in handy.

honestly I ready think the mobility- based pilots will get the most play, particularly Tetran Cowall, but that's another thread.

Kanos is pretty bad. Sure he has the capability of four hits but when compared to another interceptor using a focus when attacking your hot potential will be about the same. Meanwhile your stuck with a pilot that has no ept.

Id play him Kir+SD, Mauler Mithel + Squad Leader, Howlrunner, and 3 APs. I think thatd make him pretty useful.

Even just pairing him with Mauler + SL would be nice. Kir is sort of like a bomber in that regards, except you dont have to worry about him getting initiative and TL and things, so more flexible.

Maybe he'll be useful for Jendon...

... if Jendon's ability wouln'd be THAT limited.

Am I the only one who has thought of:

Carnor Jax (26)

Kir Kanos (24)

2x RGI + PtL (50)

Sure it may not be competitive, but Carnor and Kir are made for each other IMO.

Kanos is interesting, and a nice get for the cost, but Jax has an area debuff that could make him a ubiquitous choice in Empire list.

Jax is also better (IMO) because he is seen as a primary target. You simply can't ignore him like you can Kir. Pairing Jax with another primary threat is where he will shine IMO.

Jax - PTL, Stealth

Krassis - HLC

Is going to be one of my favorite pairings in the entire game. Ignore either one for too long and the other will tear you up.

Jax is also better (IMO) because he is seen as a primary target. You simply can't ignore him like you can Kir. Pairing Jax with another primary threat is where he will shine IMO.

Jax - PTL, Stealth

Krassis - HLC

Is going to be one of my favorite pairings in the entire game. Ignore either one for too long and the other will tear you up.

While I definitely agree here, the point of Kir is that he wants to be ignored, so he can burn that Evade offensively. Pairing him up with Jax, who will prevent the defender from modding his dice and I think he would shine.

Jax is also better (IMO) because he is seen as a primary target. You simply can't ignore him like you can Kir. Pairing Jax with another primary threat is where he will shine IMO.

Jax - PTL, Stealth

Krassis - HLC

Is going to be one of my favorite pairings in the entire game. Ignore either one for too long and the other will tear you up.

While I definitely agree here, the point of Kir is that he wants to be ignored, so he can burn that Evade offensively. Pairing him up with Jax, who will prevent the defender from modding his dice and I think he would shine.

The interceptor's best defense is its maneuverability. If you're not making judicious use of Boost and Barrel Roll, then you're likely leaving yourself open to unnecessary attacks. Kanos requires that you give up the best feature of the Interceptor for an Evade, on the off chance that higher PS pilots don't strip it from him before he gets a chance to use it.

Without an EPT, I think Kanos is meh at best. He's certainly got some "big play" potential, but the risk is too high to justify the reward.

Welcome to the point if imperial aces. In the January article, they spoke specifically about the high-risk involved in playing each of its pilots. Kanos definitely has a place in some competitive lists but it's not in a flanking role like Soontir or Jax or a pseudo jousting role like Turr, it is as a part of a swarmlet next to a higher- priority target like Howlrunner and/or a Firespray.

While I definitely agree here, the point of Kir is that he wants to be ignored, so he can burn that Evade offensively. Pairing him up with Jax, who will prevent the defender from modding his dice and I think he would shine.

Very true about ignoring kir. But the problem with that is Jax will not survive long being the only choice of a primary target. Jax cannot be the only main threat or its too easy to focus him into space dust.

Maybe Kir + Jax + BH or something?

While I definitely agree here, the point of Kir is that he wants to be ignored, so he can burn that Evade offensively. Pairing him up with Jax, who will prevent the defender from modding his dice and I think he would shine.

Very true about ignoring kir. But the problem with that is Jax will not survive long being the only choice of a primary target. Jax cannot be the only main threat or its too easy to focus him into space dust.

Maybe Kir + Jax + BH or something?

Why won't he survive? If he's being flown as he should, he's on a flank and making it difficult for your opponent to target him. If he does go after him with a concentrated effort, the rest of the squadron should get good position and be able to rip into the enemy squadron.

While I definitely agree here, the point of Kir is that he wants to be ignored, so he can burn that Evade offensively. Pairing him up with Jax, who will prevent the defender from modding his dice and I think he would shine.

Very true about ignoring kir. But the problem with that is Jax will not survive long being the only choice of a primary target. Jax cannot be the only main threat or its too easy to focus him into space dust.

Maybe Kir + Jax + BH or something?

Why won't he survive? If he's being flown as he should, he's on a flank and making it difficult for your opponent to target him. If he does go after him with a concentrated effort, the rest of the squadron should get good position and be able to rip into the enemy squadron.

Well you lie into a problem at point cost, sure jax has boost/barrel roll but what people are saying is he doesn't have both. (meaning PTL) that is where his flaw lies. He can easily be disrupted by a swarm or large ship at the hands of a good/decent player. I would actually prefer to take him out first for the main reason that it would be easiest.

What if you ran Kir Kanos as a flanker/decoy and have the main fleet be howlrunner+academy pilots or alpha squadrons

While I definitely agree here, the point of Kir is that he wants to be ignored, so he can burn that Evade offensively. Pairing him up with Jax, who will prevent the defender from modding his dice and I think he would shine.

Very true about ignoring kir. But the problem with that is Jax will not survive long being the only choice of a primary target. Jax cannot be the only main threat or its too easy to focus him into space dust.

Maybe Kir + Jax + BH or something?

Why won't he survive? If he's being flown as he should, he's on a flank and making it difficult for your opponent to target him. If he does go after him with a concentrated effort, the rest of the squadron should get good position and be able to rip into the enemy squadron.

Being the primary target means he won't be flanking much of anything. If Jax is in fact the largest threat (not to mention he makes the rest of the squad better every turn he is alive, ala howlrunner), you would focus on him to take him out ASAP.

Well you lie into a problem at point cost, sure jax has boost/barrel roll but what people are saying is he doesn't have both. (meaning PTL) that is where his flaw lies. He can easily be disrupted by a swarm or large ship at the hands of a good/decent player. I would actually prefer to take him out first for the main reason that it would be easiest.

Jax can have both. See below for my response to the rest.

Being the primary target means he won't be flanking much of anything. If Jax is in fact the largest threat (not to mention he makes the rest of the squad better every turn he is alive, ala howlrunner), you would focus on him to take him out ASAP.

Assigning a ship your highest target priority doesn't mean it will be easy, especially in the case of an interceptor, unless two opponents are simply set up to play a jousting game, and if you're doing that with interceptors, well that's very bad, imo.

He deploys at PS 8, so if a player can't position him on a flank of the enemy, they're playing against an incredibly small force. Assuming you can correctly predict your opponent's flank, your opponent has to decide how badly he wants Jax. If he commits heavily, he's exposing himself to the rest of your force. Jax, or any interceptor can make the hunt a challenge, especially if he has PTL -- he can maneuver out of position and/or turtle, even in close. If your opponent doesn't do either of those and tries to send a single ship over to interdict Jax, there's not many ships that will be successful in that regard on their own, and very likely cost more points, so you again, should have superiority in the other area.

Also, he doesn't actually make his own squad better. He makes the other squad worse. So, it's different than Howlrunner. He needs to be close to the enemy to do so, and keeping him near your own forces is irrelevant, and, imo, a bad idea since as many people point out, he WOULD be a priority target and you allow all of your opponent's ships to point their guns in the same area if all your ships are together.

The central premise was that Kir Kanos has much more potential for his cost, and I just don't agree, even though this discussion changed into how easy/difficult to kill Jax, that's mostly what I was addressing. If you can kill Jax, you can kill Kanos, and that two points is not that big of a deal -- not to mention I think the benefits of Jax far more than make up for the point cost.

I'm going to go a step further and say I think a Saber or Royal Guard with Opportunist or Expose *might* be a better choice than Kanos, whose ability costs the use, and then misuse, of an action.

Well you lie into a problem at point cost, sure jax has boost/barrel roll but what people are saying is he doesn't have both. (meaning PTL) that is where his flaw lies. He can easily be disrupted by a swarm or large ship at the hands of a good/decent player. I would actually prefer to take him out first for the main reason that it would be easiest.

Jax can have both. See below for my response to the rest.

Being the primary target means he won't be flanking much of anything. If Jax is in fact the largest threat (not to mention he makes the rest of the squad better every turn he is alive, ala howlrunner), you would focus on him to take him out ASAP.

Assigning a ship your highest target priority doesn't mean it will be easy, especially in the case of an interceptor, unless two opponents are simply set up to play a jousting game, and if you're doing that with interceptors, well that's very bad, imo.

He deploys at PS 8, so if a player can't position him on a flank of the enemy, they're playing against an incredibly small force. Assuming you can correctly predict your opponent's flank, your opponent has to decide how badly he wants Jax. If he commits heavily, he's exposing himself to the rest of your force. Jax, or any interceptor can make the hunt a challenge, especially if he has PTL -- he can maneuver out of position and/or turtle, even in close. If your opponent doesn't do either of those and tries to send a single ship over to interdict Jax, there's not many ships that will be successful in that regard on their own, and very likely cost more points, so you again, should have superiority in the other area.

Also, he doesn't actually make his own squad better. He makes the other squad worse. So, it's different than Howlrunner. He needs to be close to the enemy to do so, and keeping him near your own forces is irrelevant, and, imo, a bad idea since as many people point out, he WOULD be a priority target and you allow all of your opponent's ships to point their guns in the same area if all your ships are together.

The central premise was that Kir Kanos has much more potential for his cost, and I just don't agree, even though this discussion changed into how easy/difficult to kill Jax, that's mostly what I was addressing. If you can kill Jax, you can kill Kanos, and that two points is not that big of a deal -- not to mention I think the benefits of Jax far more than make up for the point cost.

I'm going to go a step further and say I think a Saber or Royal Guard with Opportunist or Expose *might* be a better choice than Kanos, whose ability costs the use, and then misuse, of an action.

I do understand the flanking aspect of interceptors, that's about all I will run once aces is legal. However I am ok with taking 1 round of a flank from a guy that would only take an evade to add a damage. Aside from a hot roll at range 2/3 you can expect about 2/3 damage with his evade token. if the other force is centralized you would of course go for that, however after the joust you can start to position your fleet to go after their flank threat as ships start to disperse and movement could/will be limited.

Prioritizing based on opponent setup is important, not just declaring a single ship a threat at the beginning.

In short I feel you could treat him as a royal guard pilot and put him in a secondary kill goal after your primary.

I do understand the flanking aspect of interceptors, that's about all I will run once aces is legal. However I am ok with taking 1 round of a flank from a guy that would only take an evade to add a damage. Aside from a hot roll at range 2/3 you can expect about 2/3 damage with his evade token. if the other force is centralized you would of course go for that, however after the joust you can start to position your fleet to go after their flank threat as ships start to disperse and movement could/will be limited.

Prioritizing based on opponent setup is important, not just declaring a single ship a threat at the beginning.

Yes wires were crossed, and down went the executor