Well i made the experience that especially against swarms the Han plus gunner plus marksmanship combo is better than anything else. If i want assault missiles with that i'll just swap an X for an A.

I understand that gunner is not as good against other rebel lists, but against swarms or even stealthed up imperial ships with multiple actions, it just gives you the punch you will need to get that desperately needed hit on Soontir for example. I find assault missiles too much of a gamble on the Falcon, and i often play against those super tough to hit lists with Dark curse, Soontir with PTL and all of them stealthed...

Therefore my experiences go exactly the opposite way, assault missiles have often missed and gunner won me a lot of games.

But the one upgrade that has never ever served me well is the mercenary pilot. Even 2 points is too much for only range 3. If i really need critical hits i would rather take marksmanship which is surprisingly reliable.

I don't think mercenary co-pilot is bad or overcosted but it does land into what I consider to be a priority four card. Generally when I look at a card I file it away as one of the following

1: something to build a squad around, Howlrunner, HSF, things of that nature. Powerful, and potentially game winning but might need the support of priority 2s or 3s to work. At least one should be in every list.

2: Helpers. Cards that will either improve the efficiency of ones or act as a useful wingman. Biggs is the best example as no matter what the core goal of a squad is he never really rises or lowers out of this level. Others might be squad leader or PTL on lists that aren't built around it. You generally want at least a few of these.

3: Insurance. Dark curse, Luke, Fell's wrath, Stealth device, and elusiveness all fall here. You'd be better off if it never gets used but if you need it you'll be glad you have it. I like to have at least one in case things go south in a bad way.

4: Throw it in. This is a card that, while not bad and occasionally useful, doesn't really make or break any list and will probably only be placed on a list if you have a few spare points floating around. Mercenary co-pilot, Blaster turret, Winged Gundark could all be considered this.

In the case of the co-pilot he does make range three more costly for the other team. He doesn't need an action or give stress either. I think he's best used against enemies with high agility or HLCs that are trying to stay at range three and snipe you to death since it tips the advantage towards you at long range and makes them want to close in more. That said he isn't going to win a game for you most of the time but if he scares someone into being sloppy then good job my scaly Rodian friend, you've helped!

I don't think mercenary co-pilot is bad or overcosted but it does land into what I consider to be a priority four card. Generally when I look at a card I file it away as one of the following

1: something to build a squad around, Howlrunner, HSF, things of that nature. Powerful, and potentially game winning but might need the support of priority 2s or 3s to work. At least one should be in every list.

2: Helpers. Cards that will either improve the efficiency of ones or act as a useful wingman. Biggs is the best example as no matter what the core goal of a squad is he never really rises or lowers out of this level. Others might be squad leader or PTL on lists that aren't built around it. You generally want at least a few of these.

3: Insurance. Dark curse, Luke, Fell's wrath, Stealth device, and elusiveness all fall here. You'd be better off if it never gets used but if you need it you'll be glad you have it. I like to have at least one in case things go south in a bad way.

4: Throw it in. This is a card that, while not bad and occasionally useful, doesn't really make or break any list and will probably only be placed on a list if you have a few spare points floating around. Mercenary co-pilot, Blaster turret, Winged Gundark could all be considered this.

In the case of the co-pilot he does make range three more costly for the other team. He doesn't need an action or give stress either. I think he's best used against enemies with high agility or HLCs that are trying to stay at range three and snipe you to death since it tips the advantage towards you at long range and makes them want to close in more. That said he isn't going to win a game for you most of the time but if he scares someone into being sloppy then good job my scaly Rodian friend, you've helped!

I subscribe to the same way of thinking. By prioritizing cards you can start to add the ones which pay for themselves in the context of your list (as determined by the category 1 choices). It's like writing a paper. I ask, "does this ship/upgrade work with the others before it to support the main thesis (core pilot/upgrade/combo the squad is built around)? If not, it might not be worth its points to me at the moment, even though it could be an extremely awesome card/pilot in the context of a different list.

Very well said Von. You always make great points.

I'm building an Omicron tie swarm list and can't decide between two options.

List #1

Omicron + Sensor Jammer, Auto Blaster, Flight Instructor, Rebel captive*, Anti pursuit lasers

*also considering Vader instead of rebel captive

Howlrunner + Stealth Device

Dark Curse

Alpha Squad pilot + Stealth device

or

Omicron + Sensor Jammer, Auto Blaster, Flight Instructor, Anti pursuit lasers

Howlrunner + Stealth Device

Alpha Squad Pilot + Stealth Device x 2

Basically I want to use the shuttle to clog up the middle with either the ties and ints flanking or ties helping to clog and ints picking off targets from the flank.

Well i made the experience that especially against swarms the Han plus gunner plus marksmanship combo is better than anything else. If i want assault missiles with that i'll just swap an X for an A.

I understand that gunner is not as good against other rebel lists, but against swarms or even stealthed up imperial ships with multiple actions, it just gives you the punch you will need to get that desperately needed hit on Soontir for example. I find assault missiles too much of a gamble on the Falcon, and i often play against those super tough to hit lists with Dark curse, Soontir with PTL and all of them stealthed...

Therefore my experiences go exactly the opposite way, assault missiles have often missed and gunner won me a lot of games.

But the one upgrade that has never ever served me well is the mercenary pilot. Even 2 points is too much for only range 3. If i really need critical hits i would rather take marksmanship which is surprisingly reliable.

I ran Han like this in a tourny with Luke and chewie Only time i didn't win was a double KO Against the same build but with PTL instead of markmanship.

I'm building an Omicron tie swarm list and can't decide between two options.

List #1

Omicron + Sensor Jammer, Auto Blaster, Flight Instructor, Rebel captive*, Anti pursuit lasers

*also considering Vader instead of rebel captive

Howlrunner + Stealth Device

Dark Curse

Alpha Squad pilot + Stealth device

or

Omicron + Sensor Jammer, Auto Blaster, Flight Instructor, Anti pursuit lasers

Howlrunner + Stealth Device

Alpha Squad Pilot + Stealth Device x 2

Basically I want to use the shuttle to clog up the middle with either the ties and ints flanking or ties helping to clog and ints picking off targets from the flank.

I would personally lean toward the second one. Though with some slight modifications to the Lambda's loadout. If you want to block up the enemy the Navigator would be great for you. I would consider exchanging the flight instructor for a Navigator/intelligence agent combo. Autoblaster could be good if you ever fall short on an attempted block but Ion cannon might give you a bit more control of the opponent's movement and free up some points for an Elite Talent on Howlrunner.

I think it could probably stand as is though.

I don't think mercenary co-pilot is bad or overcosted but it does land into what I consider to be a priority four card. Generally when I look at a card I file it away as one of the following

1: something to build a squad around, Howlrunner, HSF, things of that nature. Powerful, and potentially game winning but might need the support of priority 2s or 3s to work. At least one should be in every list.

2: Helpers. Cards that will either improve the efficiency of ones or act as a useful wingman. Biggs is the best example as no matter what the core goal of a squad is he never really rises or lowers out of this level. Others might be squad leader or PTL on lists that aren't built around it. You generally want at least a few of these.

3: Insurance. Dark curse, Luke, Fell's wrath, Stealth device, and elusiveness all fall here. You'd be better off if it never gets used but if you need it you'll be glad you have it. I like to have at least one in case things go south in a bad way.

4: Throw it in. This is a card that, while not bad and occasionally useful, doesn't really make or break any list and will probably only be placed on a list if you have a few spare points floating around. Mercenary co-pilot, Blaster turret, Winged Gundark could all be considered this.

In the case of the co-pilot he does make range three more costly for the other team. He doesn't need an action or give stress either. I think he's best used against enemies with high agility or HLCs that are trying to stay at range three and snipe you to death since it tips the advantage towards you at long range and makes them want to close in more. That said he isn't going to win a game for you most of the time but if he scares someone into being sloppy then good job my scaly Rodian friend, you've helped!

I ran it on Kath Scarlet for example with expert handling, just to assure staying at range 3 for longer but marksmanship with gunner just is the better option if you want to abuse her ability. Okay its also more costly though.

On Krassis i ran it because there was no way else to get criticals on HLC for her.

In both configurations it was a pretty disappointing experience.

i think merc co-pilot is terrible on the big ships, because they move way too fast.

the exception is falcon, because it can move on the edges of a battle very easily, because it has the 360

so merc not even worth considering on anything but falcon

i think merc co-pilot is terrible on the big ships, because they move way too fast.

the exception is falcon, because it can move on the edges of a battle very easily, because it has the 360

so merc not even worth considering on anything but falcon

I can see your point, but that's what the rear arc is for on the Firespray-31, right? I guess that depends on how you fly it.

The other thing the YT-1300 has going for it is 2 crew slots, so you're not taking up precious space for Gunner/Luke.

So which one's worse: Mercenary Copilot for 2 points, or "Winged Gundark" for 15?

Personally I'd really like to try Merc co-pilot with autoblaster. They can't be used in the same attack but they give the target a very small optimal band to fly in. might work, though it would be tricky. Remember folks, sometimes the psychological effect of an upgrade is better than the mechanical one. Even if you never get to use a card if it radically changes the opposing strategy then it still helped you out.

You are correct about the psychological value of some upgrades. I won a tournament Saturday with a 4 x TIE Bomber list that has 3 Assault Missiles and 4 Seismic Charges. My opponents consistently spread their forces out, and engaged my squadron one at a time so they could avoid splash damage. This let me meet them in a series of 4 on 1 engagements, which far more than anything else explained my success for the day. My Seismic Charges also forced them to make less than optimum choices after the first pass, choosing to bank far around the outside rather than K-Turn or make hard turns, which again helped me far more than the few points of damage the Seismic Charges dealt would have indicated.

Although in terms of raw numbers my Assault Missiles were far less successful than any of the other missile types would have been, especially since I often took splash damage on my own ships in order to use them, the way they dictated my opponent's play was decisive and would not have been a factor had I used other more numerically effective missiles. There is a lot to be said for playing both sides of the table, and abilities/upgrades that allow you to dictate your opponents moves are much more valuable than mathematical theorycrafting would lead you to believe.

Lastly, on list building.

There are two methods to creating an effective squadron. Choose one when you start to build a squadron, and stick to it.

1 - The Generalist: This is where diversity and flexibility shine. The goal is to create a squadron that will minimize its weaknesses. For example, Han shoots first. A large ship gives you good strength vs. an alpha strike, since it is almost impossible to kill a 13 hit point ship in one pass. Two Rookies provides you with some needed firepower in order to drop an opponent's large ship faster than he drops yours. Han's accuracy and 360 turret provides protection vs. high maneuverability/agility lists. HSF is a good list because it lacks any major weaknesses.

2 - The Specialist: This is where focus and maximization comes into play. The goal is to create a squadron that does one thing so well, that it can eliminate an opponent before its weaknesses can be exploited. For example, the Saber squadron (4 x Sabers with PTL and Stealth). This squadron plays to the maneuverability and high agility of Interceptors in order to maximize their defense. By getting high PS Sabers and using PTL, you are hoping to be able to consistently put your ships in positions where they cannot be shot at. Adding Stealth works well with the Sabers natural 3 agility and the possibility of an evade token from PTL to make them difficult targets to hit when they are shot at. This is a good list because no matter who you face you are a difficult target to hit.

When playing HSF, you will want to alter your play style based on what you meet. If you meet another large ship list, you will want to maneuver your big ship in front and allow it to combine fire with your two Rookies in order to put out more damage per turn than your opponent. Ideally, you will eliminate your opponent's support ships first in order to create an even greater imbalance in damage output, since dropping them is the quickest way to degrade your opponent's damage output. If you meet a swarm, you will want to use your Rookies to screen your Falcon. Han is your greatest asset against Agility 3 ships, so you will want to keep as much damage off him as you can while he puts accurate shots past your opponents defenses.

When playing Sabers, you want to maximize your defense no matter who you are playing against. The mistake I see people running this list (or others like it) make, is trying to play the list offensively. Specialist lists like this one must do everything they can to maximize their own strengths, not overcome weaknesses. So, if you use your PTL to boost and focus for a point blank shot on a Falcon, you will lose because you are not leveraging your strength. What will happen there is you will do 3 or 4 points of damage, and your opponent will shoot back and vaporize your tokenless Saber. On the other hand, if you accepted the Range 2 shot, but put focus and an evade on (and didn't use focus for offense), you will deal 1 or 2 points of damage but receive zero or 1 damage in return. Doing the math, it should be clear that 4 damage once is less effective than 2 damage over 3 turns.

When you make a list, know whether you are making a generalist list or a specialist list. Then, make every ship and upgrade work towards that end. Finally, when playing the list remember what kind of list it is and play it that way. Do not try to fly a generalist list the same way against everyone, and don't try to fly a specialist defensive list as an offensive juggernaut.

Having said all that, all lists are not equal. HSF is a better list than Sabers, because Han is very, very good at being a generalist and Sabers are only pretty good at defense. But by sticking to your design philosophy, you can make sure that each list is as good as it can be.

this is not really a reply more of question i need help build a really good 50 point list for league i want to use an a-wing a b-wing and an x-wing

this is not really a reply more of question i need help build a really good 50 point list for league i want to use an a-wing a b-wing and an x-wing

Those are 60 points total at the cheapest (58 if you give the A-Wing Chardaan Refit), so I don't see it happening.