I've been trying to find ways to incorporate the B-Wing into a good synergetic squad. I'm not a fan of 3 ship builds because I feel you can get overwhelmed pretty quickly with a Tie Swarm or a 4-5 Imp squad. My thought behind this build is to have Ibtisam stay behind Wedge and Gold and deal HLC from Range 3. Wedge would obviously be the focus for the enemy, but the Y-Wing would deal Ion damage to slow the enemy down. Any thoughts/advice/criticism are welcome.

100 points

I would like to know why you put squad leader into that. You will need every action on Wedge you can get, and if Ibti hangs back the only target for the spare action would be the Gold squadron. But then the action is better spent on Mr. Antilles himself!

I would like to know why you put squad leader into that. You will need every action on Wedge you can get, and if Ibti hangs back the only target for the spare action would be the Gold squadron. But then the action is better spent on Mr. Antilles himself!

Funny, right after I posted it, I asked myself the same question. I was thinking of switching out SL for Swarm Tactics.

Absolutely loving this thread thx

Just curious how you feel about these two squads.

Lando w/ swarm tactics

Jan ors w/blaster swarm tactics

Roark blaster

Or

Wedge w/ boost expose r2 astro

Biggs w/ shield r2f2

Jan ors w/ blaster determination

Absolutely loving this thread thx

Just curious how you feel about these two squads.

Lando w/ swarm tactics

Jan ors w/blaster swarm tactics

Roark blaster

Or

Wedge w/ boost expose r2 astro

Biggs w/ shield r2f2

Jan ors w/ blaster determination

Lando/Jan/Roark

Unfortunately I don't feel like Roark fits well in this squad. You have a sever lack of firepower (since the turrets require a focus) you have no defensive upgrades on your HWK's. The list most certainly isn't bad, and has great synergy (being able to fire 4 from the blaster turret)

The first list could work but you only get an additional action if Lando is at range 1 of one of the other ships plus did a green manoeuver. This makes your movement very predictable. But boosting a YT is a pretty good idea. Just a pity that there is so little points left for upgrades.

...it's not a real spam list, it's very synergetic actually.

Dutch with ion turret

Gold Y-Wing with blaster turret x2

Kyle with recon specialist and blaster turret

Idk if that was 100 points exactly as i don't have the list on me but if not insert a few R2 units on some of the Y-Wings.

This overcomes some of the blaster turrets problems as you can fire all 3 every turn and 2 of them boosted with a target lock too.

Granted it has only 3 blaster turets but it's far from being a bad list. The amount of shots you can dodge with this is just amazing. The firepower is decent and no matter what goes down first, you still have a chance.

3 B-Wing lists are also not really foolishness. B- Wings can support each other pretty well and the firepower is okay. Probably though you are better served with a mix of X and B-Wings.

You know just don't dismiss lists as rubbish so fast because someone will find a good use for them and then everybody will suddenly fly it after 2-3 tournament victories.

This list is porky pig spam! You MUST be joking?? It's blaster turret spam to the core! All you've done is take an all hawk list and sub all but one out for Y-Wings with the same loadout, and sub one blaster for an ion. It's horrible because each ship relies on the same mechanic (granted, the Y-Wings vastly improve the list over taking multiple hawks). What happens if I shoot you from range 3? You have horrible maneuverability. Dutch is a great choice, but his support team is crap. Try again. This list illustrates EXACTLY what I was talking about avoiding.

Wow - you come across to me as kind of elitist. I thought the point of the game was to win, not adhere to somebody else's sense of "honor" and "proper" play. If somebody can win by following the rules, then I don't see the problem.

ForceM, the issue with your list is that there is obvious target priority - start with Kyle, move on to Dutch, then clean up the rest. (I realise you might have to start with Dutch depending on board state) If your opponent can kill those two ships, the rest of the list disintegrates. A TIE swarm with Vader (crew upgrade in an OGP) will eat it alive, and lists that focus on maneuverability will likewise cause it fits.

...it's not a real spam list, it's very synergetic actually.

Dutch with ion turret

Gold Y-Wing with blaster turret x2

Kyle with recon specialist and blaster turret

Idk if that was 100 points exactly as i don't have the list on me but if not insert a few R2 units on some of the Y-Wings.

This overcomes some of the blaster turrets problems as you can fire all 3 every turn and 2 of them boosted with a target lock too.

Granted it has only 3 blaster turets but it's far from being a bad list. The amount of shots you can dodge with this is just amazing. The firepower is decent and no matter what goes down first, you still have a chance.

3 B-Wing lists are also not really foolishness. B- Wings can support each other pretty well and the firepower is okay. Probably though you are better served with a mix of X and B-Wings.

You know just don't dismiss lists as rubbish so fast because someone will find a good use for them and then everybody will suddenly fly it after 2-3 tournament victories.

This list is porky pig spam! You MUST be joking?? It's blaster turret spam to the core! All you've done is take an all hawk list and sub all but one out for Y-Wings with the same loadout, and sub one blaster for an ion. It's horrible because each ship relies on the same mechanic (granted, the Y-Wings vastly improve the list over taking multiple hawks). What happens if I shoot you from range 3? You have horrible maneuverability. Dutch is a great choice, but his support team is crap. Try again. This list illustrates EXACTLY what I was talking about avoiding.

Wow - you come across to me as kind of elitist. I thought the point of the game was to win, not adhere to somebody else's sense of "honor" and "proper" play. If somebody can win by following the rules, then I don't see the problem.

I think what he is saying is that this list sucks. In theory, it works ok. On the table, not getting focus actions to modify dice is terrible. it is like shooting a rookie pilot with no actions against anything all of the time. The X-Wing with focus > x-wing without focus. The Y-Wings don't carry blaster turrets very well because they can't all get TL+Focus or twin focus tokens.

Okay while we're back at my turret list yet again, don't worry i am okay with what davey said there. I think he knows this was a little harsh and he was very friendly afterwards XD

ForceM, the issue with your list is that there is obvious target priority - start with Kyle, move on to Dutch, then clean up the rest. (I realise you might have to start with Dutch depending on board state) If your opponent can kill those two ships, the rest of the list disintegrates. A TIE swarm with Vader (crew upgrade in an OGP) will eat it alive, and lists that focus on maneuverability will likewise cause it fits.

Just to give an example of what i mean: Nobody says Howlrunner is bad because her rerolls are lost if you lose her. Yeah of course they are but you hope that until then she caused a lot of damage. Same thing with my list.

Also swarms are not really this lists nemesis. You have complete freedom of movement with your 4 turrets. Granted a good swarm list is always hard to beat, but that's because the swarms have been very strong from day one of this game to now. Every list has more or less problems against swarms.

And movement lists, like 4 interceptors for example, well they are really not the problem because they rely on dodging firing arcs and against this list that's just nigh impossible. Generally those lists also are kinda glass cannon and if i get a good hit on them they die in just a few shots. I had a game where i thought inhad already lost but then finally i got a solit hit on Soontir and a Sabre in the same turn and just vaporized them, completely turning the table. But noteworthy is that i was constantly able to shoot them while they really were sonetimes guessing where i would go next. Even with boost and barrel roll, if you guess the wrong maneuver, no shooting for you...

I think what he is saying is that this list sucks. In theory, it works ok. On the table, not getting focus actions to modify dice is terrible. it is like shooting a rookie pilot with no actions against anything all of the time. The X-Wing with focus > x-wing without focus. The Y-Wings don't carry blaster turrets very well because they can't all get TL+Focus or twin focus tokens.

Finally i start to think that i must have done something right with this list because it polarizes people. Some seem to really hate it for some reason and others like it. So it must at least be interesting as an idea.

What about taking a hawk without secondary weapons and using the points elsewhere?

I'm not terribly fond of this idea either, but I came up with an interesting list.

Let's Get Critical!

Ten Numb (Marksmanship) 34

Chewbacca (Marksmanship, Mercenary Copilot) 47

Rebel Operative (Saboteur) 18

TOTAL 99

Can't figure out what's best for that last point, but whatever. The idea here is to deal as many face-up damage cards as possible. Chewbacca and Ten are the heavy hitters, and unfortunately they also have only 1 agility each. That's not very good. But it sounds like fun to totally disrupt the enemy with all the critical hit effects. I think this team's biggest fears are an opposing Chewbacca, and B-wings because they have so many shields.

I'm really interested to see how the Rebel Operative works out. I highly doubt he will be the priority target, so he ought to be free to fly around trying to flip the enemy's damage cards face up. He can also take pot shots with his wimpy primary weapon, but I don't expect any hits out of that.

Well i cant help it but i would just take a Prototype A-Wing instead of the operative then. You could say that Roark, Jan or Kyle still have something to do even if they have no turret. But the operative well he really has no other reason to exist except carrying a turret. The saboteur will not make a difference there if you ask me... And he is worth half a turret already.

I also dislike Mercenary Copilot, even on top of Marksmanship. I get the critical danage combo but i just always feel like getting a gunner instead. Okay you don't have the points here though because you can't drop marksmanship on Ten Numb either.

I hear you, but Gunner is just so...used. I mean it's in almost every YT-1300 list. That's probably because it's really good. I get that. But what other options/combos are we missing? I thought I'd try some out.

I usually don't post lists unless I've tried them, but I felt this was relevant to the conversation. I view Saboteur as a mini turret. The two things the Rebel Operative can do is Saboteur (obviously) and maybe even blocking high-skill enemies. After all, it's not like I need him to be pointed at the enemy.

This is one list I want to try just for the fun of it.

I am one of the minority that hates Gunner. Every time I have run it, it has been either completely useless or so nearly useless as makes no difference. It only kicks in if you MISS, which if I am using my Falcon/Slave 1 correctly does not happen. The only way it helps is if I have not done other things to make my hit more likely, for example maybe I don't use my focus or TL token in order to generate more hits (allowing them to evade my first shot). But that means my attempt to "use" Gunner requires me to use all my other abilities at less than their most effective manner.

Count the number of times Gunner successfully converts a complete miss into a hit, and compare that to the 5 points worth of other stuff you could have had instead. Gunner rarely (never in my case) seems to come out ahead.

I am one of the minority that hates Gunner. Every time I have run it, it has been either completely useless or so nearly useless as makes no difference. It only kicks in if you MISS, which if I am using my Falcon/Slave 1 correctly does not happen. The only way it helps is if I have not done other things to make my hit more likely, for example maybe I don't use my focus or TL token in order to generate more hits (allowing them to evade my first shot). But that means my attempt to "use" Gunner requires me to use all my other abilities at less than their most effective manner.

Count the number of times Gunner successfully converts a complete miss into a hit, and compare that to the 5 points worth of other stuff you could have had instead. Gunner rarely (never in my case) seems to come out ahead.

Gunner is nearly worthless on a Falcon in mirror matches, but it's good versus stealthed-up action stacking targets like Soontir with PTL or Vader.

Ive been messing with an alternate to Han shoots first using B-wings and dumping a ton of Hull Points/Shields on the board.

Kinetic, I have yet to see Gunner pay dividends as well.

Thinking of leaving it out.

Count the number of times Gunner successfully converts a complete miss into a hit, and compare that to the 5 points worth of other stuff you could have had instead.

I get what your saying. When I've run Han or Lando it seems that it so rare that I miss outright, that I seldom ever get much use out of Gunner.

But... In a typical Han Shot First list, there's not much else you could use those 5 points on. Maybe add a trop to one of the rookies? I view Gunner most as a insurance policy, since in the HSF lists, Han is the main source of damage, you want to make sure you can hit every time.

The whole point of this thread was to expose some of the goofy ideas floating around and discuss the meta of the game, especially concerning the changes with wave 3. So ya, I think we are all enjoying putting together "elitist" lists designed to play strategically and synergistically.
Anyway, you'll notice there haven't been any personal attacks, but rather vicious and bloody thirsty attacks on people's ideas. Nobody died.

I stand by my comments. The blaster turret spam lists don't work like you want them to. If you could fire the **** thing without having to spend a focus, it would be different (as Nimbadew so rightly pointed out). 360 arcs are great, but range 2 is limiting.

BTW, Why isn't anyone suggesting HSF lists with blaster turrets?

Here was the idea I had:

Han Solo

Swarm Tactics

Assault Missiles

Merc Co-Pilot

Falcon

56

B-Wing - Blue Squad

22

Y-Wing - Gold Squad

Turret Blaster

22

The theory here is a ton of Hull/Shield points. Also having Han and the Y-Wing both with 360 arc and if they fly together allowing the Y to shoot on 9 as well with Swarm.

It has 29 dmg points to eat through and some solid attack capabilities each turn.

DaveyDave...posted this before your last comment LOL

also I just took Assault Missiles for a solid opening shot on a Tie Swarm...you could spend that 5 points elsewhere or even dump it into the B-Wing for an upgrade.

GFulls - you beat me to the punch.

Interesting idea. I think a B-Wing fits well in this list.

Couple questions/critiques:

1. Why not a Hawk instead of the Y-Wing? Durability? What about the awesome buffs that Jan or Kyle give?

2. Why secondary weapons on the Falcon? I see what you are thinking with the merc co-pilot (get the range 3 crit with the missiles) but Han already shoots 3 dice with re-rolls and a focus at range 3, so you are paying 4 points to shoot one more die, but without a focus... not worth it? Or did I miss something (I seriously might have, not being facetious)?

3. Blue Squad B-Wing is cool, but can we give him some toys with the points we save after unloading Han? Maybe the targeting computer thing that keeps your target lock up (the name escapes me - adv targeting computery thing of target locking goodness)??

I like the direction of this list, but can it be optimized? I want more!

I think it can be optimized much more. Depending on upgrades and such...

1. Yes Y-wing is for pure durability purposes and...everyone ignores the Y-Wing!! Knowing the HWK's support capabilities that you had mentioned earlier plus the sheer dumb fact that it is a Wave 3 new and flashy model...people will just want to shoot at it. I have tried several versions of Kyle/Garven lists handing out focus tokens like candy, and while awesome, when the new Elite Guard pilots enter the game, with enhanced Dark Curse powers, well...forget those tokens.

2. I am a firm believer in having one deadly shot each game, win or lose I like keeping a decent weapon on at least one ship. Assault Missles....If just one missile gets thru...every ship at Range 1 takes 1 hit....every ship... so that Tie Cluster flying up the board just took a beating...now all 3 of my ships with 3 attack die each (Y-using the Turret) can basically cut them to pieces. So yes it is 5 points for 1 shot...but the damage can be worth it. 5 points to knock a Tie swarm down to 2 Hull Points in one shot...yes please

3. The B-Wing is a beast on its own. It is a Tank. I would say the best thing for this ship is the pure numbers...8 Hull/Shield points...and 3 attack dice. it does not need much more than that. Still...you could pull almost anything off Han and add it to the B-Wing...with Swarm Tactics Han can basically make the B-wing shoot on the 9. So what if it cannot move fast...

Hope that helps

Another idea is to go for one-shot kills, by getting a very threatening one-shot hit from our B-Wing.

Jan Ors (Squad Leader, Ion Turret) - 32

Biggs - 25

Blue Squadron Pilot (Fire Control System, Heavy Laser Cannon, Advanced Proton Torpedoes x 2) - 43

Jan in front, Biggs behind her, Blue behind him (not directly, obviously). Slowroll forwards, with Jan Ionizing targets to slow them down, and Biggs providing some cover to get them through that first pass. Sitting at range allows Blue to hammer away with 5 Dice HLC shots that have TL and Focus, closing range allows him to hit with 6 die APTs. Big ships will melt away with a couple shots at any range, small ships stand a very good chance of being one-shotted by Blue. Jan pins things down and provides a small increase in damage directly, indirectly she makes Blue more maneuverable (allowing him to Barrel Roll every turn in addition to TL and Focus) and/or if Biggs is still alive makes Biggs hit awfully hard as well. Even if she doesn't use her special, Biggs could easily have both TL and Focus every round and he is still flying an X-Wing.

Biggs, well Biggs dies. But if he can buy a couple turns for Blue to even the odds before he goes, and even better if he manages to deal some damage on the way, he should be worth his points.

Also: On my HSF lists I replace Gunner with an Assault Missile. Han makes those work, and they can make that 7 or 8 TIE swarm list that is so effective vs. HSF a much less difficult proposition. Sure, it misses sometimes, but at least I get to USE the thing, and in the meanwhile it messes with my opponent's decision making.

Here was the idea I had:

Han Solo

Swarm Tactics

Assault Missiles

Merc Co-Pilot

Falcon

56

B-Wing - Blue Squad

22

Y-Wing - Gold Squad

Turret Blaster

22

I don't know, that blaster turret still bothers me. I'd just as soon drop the Falcon title and make the turret a proper Ion Cannon Turret. I just haven't seen those Turrets do much damage. My philosophy has always been like this: when I shoot at a high-agility craft I'm likely to only get one hit through anyway. Might as well use that to my advantage and control their angles (which, admittedly, doesn't work as well against boosting ships); if they are low agility, then I can get behind them and reliably hit them turn after turn with impunity.

How does this work out on the tabletop? That depends on the meta in your locale. I will admit that Blaster Turrets seem to be a better investment against double falcon builds, unless you can get multiple ion weapons to lock them down. And against TIE swarms the ion cannon turret will never deal more than one damage, even when the opponent rolls all blanks, so you forfeit one-shot kills. It's give and take.

I think Mercenary Copilot is good to try here. If it doesn't work out, then you can drop it. I think it's an underestimated crew upgrade. Especially against swarms. Han's going to want to be at range 3 anyway in order to get the extra agility die when he experiences concentrated fire.

I think instead of Fire-Control System I would try to get Advanced Sensors in there so that even on a red maneuver the B-wing will have an action. Maybe drop Swarm Tactics and Millennium Falcon for it? Then you'd keep the Blaster Turret, but I guess there are worse things.

Oh, and I really like the Assault Missiles on Han. You can reroll if the first one is ugly.

Oh, and I really like the Assault Missiles on Han. You can reroll if the first one is ugly.

Bingo

Oh, and I really like the Assault Missiles on Han. You can reroll if the first one is ugly.

Bingo

Now I see - still not 100% on board, but I would like to test it. I never liked assault missiles because of my preference for concentrated fire, then again a 2 hull tie is VASTLY more one shotable.