Greetings, brethern.

After going through some of the published mission material

- Shattered Hope
- Edge of Darkness
- Maggots in the Meat
- All Adventure for "Purge the Unclean"
- House of Dust and Ash

me recognizes that their was not much use for "Drive" or "Pilot" skills.

While I understand that it is not a good choice to make them a "life-or-death" thing, I wonder how to allow them at least some meaning.

Have you ever incorporated drive/pilot skill checks in your game? If so, how?

Actually, I am (finally!) running "Edge of Darkness" with a group of three. While non of them have any driving, I could imagine the following

!WARNING! EDGE OF DARKNESS SPOILERS AHEAD!
I plan to "equip" the enforcer station with small-but-sturdy hover vehicle (two front seat; another four as an enclosed back cabin) and adding a ground patrol car in addtion to the mentioned "hidden transporter" of the Logicians.

When they enter the Lair of the "Churgeon", he will contact the remaing enforcers via Vox. Perhabs calling in assistance as she starts to overload the the plasma reactor. As the pc leave the building (perhabs in pursuit of the Churgeon) the patrol car (or the hover) will come in with three or four "enforcers". If the pc manage to "dispatch" the enforcers, they have access to a vehicle and some CommUnits with VoxTraffic telling them about a flight in an armoured transporter...

By the way, this might keep them from persuaing the Churgeon any further (which will take a different road into the ruins of Coscarla District)

You are completely right to cite the complete lack of Drive / Pilot options in the published scenarios - I think I recall the only bit of driving that happened with my group was then the Feral World assassin drove a Cargo-8 truck across the wastelands of Iocanthus during the scenario 'Illumination.' This journey did lead to my group repeatedly asking me to imitate the sounds of a moving oil drum in every single scenario after this - but it was a very good impersonation of an oil drum!

I think that there is the opportunity of some driving combat / action within 'Illumination' - the Shale Crows could attack the party inside the truck, perhaps after they leave their conference with Esha Raine, dive bombing into the windows to break through into the meat inside? The rough terrain of these badlands could be exploited if the PCs are trying to drive rapidly at the same time as this assault. Several drive rolls would need to be made, and the truck kept on the road, while other PCs would need to lean out to blaze away at the crows - could make for a slightly more exciting combat than the one published in the scenario?

I'm running a play by post game of Illumination currently. The feral guardsman, in the first round of combat, ran over 8 fanatics with the truck they rode in on.

In general, yeah, pilot and drive aren't used much. I think the problem is that if a group doesn't have those skills and they find themselves in a situation where they need them then the results are often a TPK or similarly severe alternative. Another reason might be because scenes involving vehicles often puts alot of focus on the character driving/piloting and neglects everyone else. This is especially true with aircraft, since there's often no way to lean out the window and snap off pot shots. That said, there's always guns to man, systems to monitor and communications to manage.

Actually, both the groups I've run have used Pilot (Military Craft). The current group decided to make an entrance to the Alabaster Court, and took an Aquilla Lander instead of the local limo-equivalent. They then used the leaving Aquilla to insert the uninvited members of their team to the upper floor. Admittedly, the actual pilot was an NPC hireling, but I let them roll for it.

The previous group hijacked an Eagle assault shuttle (a lighter version of the Shark assault boat, capable of atmospheric insertion) that they were imprisoned on. They weren't particularly good of flying it, but they did rather well until the Navy Highport station decided enough was enough and hit them with a lance strike.

Last session, everyone suddenly bought Drive Ground Vehicle since they needed to drive crawlers across a barren desert planet and couldnt trust an NPC driver.

Yes, you'll never need Drive or pilot in a hive or space ship campaign. But Acolytes need to go anywhere, do anything to get the mission done. That will include driving all manner or vehicles. Personally I can see our Sister of battle learning Drive Rhino soon...

SJE

How odd.

In my campaign we've had mutiple car chases, flying various aircraft throught lethal storms, getting shot dow by anti-aircraft fire and road rage incidents. Drive (ground), Pilot (both military and civilain), and ride have all been used at one point or another. One character has become the groups regular "wheel man." I think everyone on the team has either a drive skill or a pilot skill of some type.

I dont know if this has been said but you could try make up a mission that includes a vehicle as the 'main thing' like driving & defending a rihno with a captive in it or having to hijack a vehicle those sorts of missions rely hevilly on the driving skill.

Thanks for your repleys.

The "8-wheeler on Iocanthos" thing seems quiet nice. I might come back to this "shale-crow-attack" later.

@SJE
I disagree about never needing a driver inside of hive. Like mentioned, I think there could be use for one in "Edge of Darkness". And after I found out that our Sinophian Penal Legionair (Guardsman) does have them, I really think about offering them a chase after the "armoured transporter" mentioned in the scenario "as published".

Talking "Air/Space-Combat"
Yep, everyone unable to handle heavy weapons wil have a down time during a dogfight. But on the other hand, so does the standard adept as long as nobody needs to know something from him.
But the point is true, indeed. What could a non-pilot/non-gunner pc be doing onboard a guncutter during space fight with some smaller fighter-type vehicle?

If he/she has "Tech-Use", I could give him some damage to be repaired
"Energy of my Laser Turret is done to halve!! - "Give me five minutes.." - "HURRY!!!"

But what else?

Talking "TPK"
Does not need to be that harsh. I am rather thinking about situations along the line of "benefit if you know the skill" instead of "doomed if you don´t". Like this loader sentinel in the ware house area where the pc will have this run-in with this big beast . Might "distract" it long enough for the guys with guns to take aim...

Or something as simple as "you need to get to X really fast in order to interrupt Y before all this Y´s creates more and more of opponent Z. The faster you go, the less Z´s are between you and Y. Added with some "Yeah, there is this huge agri-field-pesticide-sprayer-flyer. Any pilots? And remember, its rainstorm-season. Perhabs you better take that supply truck and take the serpentine road through the mountain-side woods.. what?! Take the arbites hoverspeeder and go through the woods top speed? If you insist.." This could of course boil down to " nope, do not have any pilots and/or drivers. We get ourself a driver from the locals working for the agri-kombine. Our trustet chainblades and hellguns will do the rest! without killing off the whole group per se. Just two more opponents for being two hours late.

A "supstitue combat for another skill"-Situation, so to speak.

Talking "Air/Space-Combat"
Yep, everyone unable to handle heavy weapons wil have a down time during a dogfight. But on the other hand, so does the standard adept as long as nobody needs to know something from him.
But the point is true, indeed. What could a non-pilot/non-gunner pc be doing onboard a guncutter during space fight with some smaller fighter-type vehicle?

If he/she has "Tech-Use", I could give him some damage to be repaired
"Energy of my Laser Turret is done to halve!! - "Give me five minutes.." - "HURRY!!!"

But what else?

As you already mentioned, tech-use can be used to Aid another character if you've got access to the machine room (or at least a cogitator bank with access to the machines). Otherwise, coordinating the whole bunch (and possibly outside assistance) would likely be practical, so you've got a "commander" role.

In the game I play in we have had three vehicle scenes.

The first was an abandoned Arbites Rhino that had a Stormbolter mounted on the top. The Tech priest manned the SB and took care of the attacking guard units while my tech guard drove. Eventually I ended up playing chicken with and in chase through a guard regiments temporary shelters outside a space port with a Chimera. Several very lucky rolls and “trusting in the strength and resolve of the machine spirit”, I plowed through a few dozen hab shelters and side swiped a few bigger structures. We managed to get the space port before our ship left. Regrettably we had to abandon the Rhino. I did liberate an Arbites combat shotgun and a case of ammo from it. The Tech Priest later “purified” the shotgun (removed the Arbities insignia).

The second was an investigation on an agri-world (“dirt ball” to my forge worlder). We rented a car to get to a gang controlled area. After “interviewing” an arms dealer we found he owned several warehouses and that he was trying to arrange a quick shipment off world. With our subtle investigation style we took off for the warehouse at high speed. The gangers didn’t like a car driving through their territory and started shooting us up. A few really good rolls later, by the grace of the Omnisiaha, I managed to get us through the maze of debris with only the car being damaged. With smoke billowing from the engine I decided that we would be direct with getting into the warehouse, directly through the closed garage door. It was a strong spirited car that gave its life for a righteous cause.

The third came after we were limping out of the warehouse. I was severely wounded and running on a cocktail of combat drugs the Tech Priest had pumped me with. Evading the gangers and an unknown group of mercenaries we stumbled upon another Arbities Rhino that had been sealed and abandoned in the gang controlled territory. The Tech Priest was able get it running after we scrounged up a barrel of promethium. The now raging warehouse fire and explosions had drawn the attention of the Arbites. As we got the Rhino running two fully loaded Rhinos opened fire on us as they came up the street. Near blind in the Rhino I decided to play chicken again and split the gap between the two oncoming Rhinos. One very good roll followed by one very bad roll led to clearing the gap between the oncoming Rhinos then blowing the last engine. The two Arbites Rhinos failed their drive checks turning into each other and buying us some time. While they were trying to untangle their Rhinos I dumped the reaming barrel of promethium over adding to the already leaking fuel lines. We jumped out the opposite side of the Rhino tossing a grenade into the open hatch. The ensuing gas enhanced explosion gave us cover to get out of the streets and away from the Arbites. Unfortunately a squad of carapace armored Arbites were killed in the explosion. This lead to an all out Arbites “sweep and clean” of the gang controlled city sector.

I have now invested in drive + 10 and + 20 after these incidents. This has also lead to the GM stating that we will be getting our own Rhino assigned to us from now on.

One other note. When renting any vehicle, always, ALWAYS get the full insurance.

What I meant to say is: In my group we have found drive skills to be usefull. But we are very ready and willing to steal and destroy in the name of the Inquisition. Even though we have never played the =I= card.

Cifer said:

Any suggestions for some Attributes / Skill checks to be rolled? My players like playing, but they REALLY feel that "it is on!" when they are allowed to throw some dice

Possibly someone running auspex? That'd be another Tech-use, admittedly, but might make sense on an extra-atmospheric craft, or a large armoured vehicle.
Aside from that, gunners and loaders are possible roles needing filling, although not always appropriate (I'd have the players make a Per or Int roll first off if they haven't been trained as loaders, with maybe a S check for the actual action). If it's a land vehicle and the driver's getting fancy you could always have the players throw their weight about to help him keep it under control/stop the vehicle from overturning. Maybe call that a strength check as well.

To be perfectly honest, I don't have a problem with PCs who aren't driving feeling useless- I just remind them to strap in, put their head between their legs, and get ready to kiss their arses goodbye, because quite frankly, that seems more realistic

If they have windows or roof top hatches they can always stick their heads out and shoot.

Any suggestions for some Attributes / Skill checks to be rolled? My players like playing, but they REALLY feel that "it is on!" when they are allowed to throw some dice

Let's see... *flips open the skill chapter*

Awareness could come in handy to notice that something is wrong with your own craft (see: Creatures Anathema, page 100...)

Climb could be used for the classic daring "Something is on the roof and trying to tear our propulsion system to pieces. Who wants to go out and deal with it?"

Command is employed for relaying instructions and coordinating gunner and pilot positions.

Common, Scholastic and Forbidden Lores can be used to find out stuff about the enemy, like weaknesses in his craft's armour or dead spots.

Drive is obvious.

Invocation... well, flinging spaceships will likely have to wait until the next two expansions, but the enterprising psyker would certainly find a few useful powers.

Medicae is very useful when after a particularly severe case of Explosive Instrumentation (because noone ever heard anything of circuit breakers...) your gunner is lying on the floor bleeding.

Navigation can prove useful to determine good routes to either evade combat or provide hints on how to maneuvre into an advantageous position.

Pilot is equally obvious, with perhaps one exception: A slightly unstable Sister Militant might be willing to use her Jetpack to get into melee range with the enemy and introduce his vehicle to her Melta...

Shadowing is obviously less useful in a combat, but can explicitly be used against vehicles.

Tech-Use has a thousand and one uses, as already described.

Aircraft crash does not have to be TPK.

It all depends on how hard the craft goes down and under what conditions.

Our cell was on an aircraft that lost half a wing due to lascannon fire, but the pilot made a 02 piloting roll and kept the thing semi-almost upside up when it hit dirt. Using the speed and crashing rules from the vehicles apocrypha, I determined the damage from such a crash (then doubled it due to the situation). After determining damage to the aircraft (significant) then applied it to the characters. Due to (most of them) being strapped in, combined with some luck, they managed to only get extremely mangled in the crash. Injuries ranged from none (extremely lucky combined with armor/TB combined w/ rolling a 5 when use a fate point to reduce wounds) to 6 or 7 levels of crit (Pilot ended up alive but impaled on steering mechanism)

I admit I haven't seen much use of the drive or pilot skills in my campaign so far. However, there were a couple points where it was used. The first was more along the lines of a handy skill to have in a tight spot, whereas the second was a pivotal moment. My players are running around during a crusade to reclaim worlds under attack by the Tyranid forces. One this such occasion had them following another inquisitor (theirs is in a coma) down into the broodhive to "assassinate" the Dominatrix. (Yes, it was a suicide mission.) At any rate, they get the Dominatrix's attention, have their "holy feth" moment as fate points are burned, and clammor onto a jeep to head for the surface, the bio-titan in tow.

While driving, the player had to maneuver around large tyranids and wreckage that got in the way, dodge attacks from the Dominatrix, and compensate steering for driving on ripper swarms. (The last the player was actually smart enough to keep both hands glued on the wheel, even as rippers fell onto him from above. Many insanity points were had.) Each of these instances called for a drive ground vehicle check, difficulty dependant upon the difficulty of the maneuver. The experience proved very fulfilling for the players as they found their lives depended on each roll. It's really refreshing to see them hold their breath as they let the dice roll.

Having seen this, I made note to include more scenes like this in the future, as there's just something about a high speed chase, where just the slightest wrong turn of the wheel could send the players to their doom that really just pumps the adrenaline. For use in more urban settings, I'd say it's more than likely the acolytes could find them either in pursuit of heretics in a single or multiple vehicles. Being chased by daemons, or whole cults could also be fun.

ItsUncertainWho said:

The arbitrators around here seem to leave a lot of rhinos just lying around....

The first Rhino was on a different planet. It's occupants were killed by an IG army that was in open conflict with a different IG army. We just took advantage of the keys being in the ignition, so to speak.

The second had been abandoned for years in the gang controlled sector of the city. The Aribities are being paid well by the xeno tech smugglers to stay out of the way and make sure no one asks questions. So any Arbites who are not corrupt are sent out to the gang controlled sections of the city where they are never to be seen again. Any of the Arbities that had been on the fence got in line quickly with the payoffs. Of course the xeno tech smugglers are being paid well by the Eldar to keep the portals hidden under the warehouses in the gang lands.

Our Inquisitor wouldn't allow us to withdraw and virus bomb the planet without more "proof". For some reason our word wasn't good enough.

Since I've just stumbled upon the news posting: Rogue Trader will have so-called Extended Actions for the main crew posts that are made precisely for allowing everyone to have something to do during a fight. The medical officer can set up a triage to reduce casualties, the confessor can motivate the rest of the crew, etc.

Sounds like it might be interesting...

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=482