Hey folks,

I noticed that the upgrade on the Sense Power tree that allows you to commit a Force die in order to upgrade the Difficulty of a combat check against you is repeated. Assuming the character buys this upgrade both times, does this mean that he can upgrade a since attack against him twice , or does it mean that he can upgrade two separate attacks against him once ?

One of them is for attacks against the force user, the other is for attacks made by the force user (the latter one).

AH! Thanks for the clarification, Doc.

Also, was wondering if the upgrade that allows for the pool to be updated twice applies to both the defensive and offensive ongoing effect. The offensive upgrade is after the double it upgrade and specifically states once. Not sure if it was intended to be used only once or if it states only once so that the previous upgrade doubles it to a max of two.

The way I'm reading it, the Strength upgrade refers to "Sense's ongoing effects" (plural), so that would apply to either the defensive effect or the offensive one.

But I also think that each one, defense and offense, is a separate Commit. So if you're Force Rating 1, you can only choose one or the other. If you're Force Rating 2, you can commit to both.

That's how I'm reading it, too.

That's how I read it too.

The big question is can you use the 2nd application on the same roll as the first. I'd say no.

What that leaves you with if you max it out and commit 2 Force Dice is 2 upgrades on 2 different rolls for both offense and defense (really defense, because you only have 1 attack roll a turn).

Nice to see I'm not alone with this dilemma and some clarification is direly needed. Especially when you are reminded to read FFGs rules by the letter. Is there some official clarification though?

If you are force level 2 and you commit both dice to both ongoing effect, passive and offensive, you have two ongoing effects running. Is each commitment and effect one action or does the usage of the force power cover every effect within this power?

Now you have both ongoing effect running and duration states that the ongoing effects can be triggered one additional time. Does this mean each of both control upgrades can be triggered twice (making this 4 triggers) or every triggers once and then you can decide on a third trigger either offensive OR defensive (making this 3 triggers in one round, one control upgrade twice and the other once)?

Now we bring strength into play. You are allowed to upgrade dice pooles of your ongoing effects twice. Does this mean each ongoing effect upgrades, offensive AND your defensive or do I have to choose on which one? If regardig duration in addition, does every trigger upgrade twice (making this three or four triggers the same round depending on how duration works)?

The way I read it is you I have the 3 upgrades (offense, defense, and 2nd use) it would take 2 force dice for the commitment and you would going the benefit on 2 separate actions. Meaning if you ate attack twice in a round you can upgrade one die on both attacks, you can not upgrade 2 dice on one attack.

That's my reading comprehension of it.

The way I read it is you I have the 3 upgrades (offense, defense, and 2nd use) it would take 2 force dice for the commitment and you would going the benefit on 2 separate actions. Meaning if you ate attack twice in a round you can upgrade one die on both attacks, you can not upgrade 2 dice on one attack.

That's my reading comprehension of it.

There is also an upgrade that gives you 2 dice for the 1 FD invested.

I think that upgrade actually makes it all clear. If the "use twice" upgrade could be used on the same roll, then there wouldn't be the one that actually doubles the effect.

While we're on the topic of Ongoing Force Powers, I have a question. Is there any sort of an action to turn one on? Do you have to wait for your turn in combat to turn in on or can you turn it on at any time?

While we're on the topic of Ongoing Force Powers, I have a question. Is there any sort of an action to turn one on? Do you have to wait for your turn in combat to turn in on or can you turn it on at any time?

It's an Action to activate an Ongoing Effect, the same as using any other Force Powers. Switching it off is an Incidental. And both of which would have to be done on your turn in the round.

However, if you suspect that combat is imminent, you can inform your GM that you're activating an Ongoing Effect before initiative rolls are called for. I've done this a few times in a Skype game I'm in, with my Force-Sensitive street rat going into "combat mode" when it looks like we're about to get into a fire-fight.

As I said on another topic ( https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/100882-can-you-trigger-senses-duration-upgrade-twice-against-the-same-attack/ ), my view is, that the Duration upgrade simply means, that substitute the "once per round" with "twice per round" on both ongoing effects.

Yes, you can upgrade the same pool twice:

1) There is no rule prohibiting you from doing it

2) Otherwise there was no possibility to use it on the offensive control upgrade.

Yes, it means, that

a) with 1 force die committed: you can upgrade your attack 4 times.

b) with 1 force die committed: you can upgrade the difficulty of 1 attack against you 4 times OR you can upgrade 2 attacks twice.

c) You can use a) and b) together if you have 2 dice to commit.

This is if you go by the rules... I suggest changing that to something, that is less imbalanced and has a little more to do with Duration in your house-rules.

As I said on another topic ( https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/100882-can-you-trigger-senses-duration-upgrade-twice-against-the-same-attack/ ), my view is, that the Duration upgrade simply means, that substitute the "once per round" with "twice per round" on both ongoing effects.

Yes, you can upgrade the same pool twice:

1) There is no rule prohibiting you from doing it

2) Otherwise there was no possibility to use it on the offensive control upgrade.

Yes, it means, that

a) with 1 force die committed: you can upgrade your attack 4 times.

b) with 1 force die committed: you can upgrade the difficulty of 1 attack against you 4 times OR you can upgrade 2 attacks twice.

c) You can use a) and b) together if you have 2 dice to commit.

This is if you go by the rules... I suggest changing that to something, that is less imbalanced and has a little more to do with Duration in your house-rules.

I disagree about triggering multiple times per roll. Your other post mentions that there aren't any ways to attack twice in a round, but there are...they are just super rare. My current group has a leader with Improved Field Commander, and most rounds rolls her leadership, and fairly often pulls a triumph to allow an ally an immediate attack, giving a second attack to upgrade. Not sure if there are others yet, but I would be surprised if there weren't.

As I said on another topic ( https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/100882-can-you-trigger-senses-duration-upgrade-twice-against-the-same-attack/ ), my view is, that the Duration upgrade simply means, that substitute the "once per round" with "twice per round" on both ongoing effects.

Yes, you can upgrade the same pool twice:

1) There is no rule prohibiting you from doing it

2) Otherwise there was no possibility to use it on the offensive control upgrade.

Yes, it means, that

a) with 1 force die committed: you can upgrade your attack 4 times.

b) with 1 force die committed: you can upgrade the difficulty of 1 attack against you 4 times OR you can upgrade 2 attacks twice.

c) You can use a) and b) together if you have 2 dice to commit.

This is if you go by the rules... I suggest changing that to something, that is less imbalanced and has a little more to do with Duration in your house-rules.

If it sounds too good to be true it most likely is. and this sounds way way way too good to be true. So no. You can't do this. You could however use something like dodge as well as sense.

Hrmm.. to ask the devs, time it is, not?

Hrmm.. to ask the devs, time it is, not?

Thought this sort of thing was already covered.

After all, a PC can't use the Dodge talent on the same attack more than once, or use the Parry talent multiple times on the same lightsaber hit.

The Duration upgrade on Sense simply lets you upgrade the difficulty on two separate attacks over the course of a round. To interpret it otherwise is being a munchkin power-gamer.

There is no Need to ask the DEVS this is a clear situation.

1. Technically comitting dice to sense costs 1 action (removing those dice is an incidental on your turn)

2. Practically you have sense so unless you are going to be ambushed by droids your GM should allow you to activate the power prior to combat (I've got a bad feeling about this)

3. When you activate it assuming you have all of the combat side upgrades you are attacking once with 2 upgrades or attacking twice with 2 upgrades. You are able to defending against up 2 seperate attacks with 2 upgrades to the attackers difficulty.

When defending autofire and linked count as 1 attack since only 1 die roll is made. Thus if two enemies autofire you, you could still upgrade the difficulty on both of their pools.

Ever notice how often in the movies the characters will attack with the lightsaber and use brawl(kicks) in a combat scene. or activate a force push in the middle of an attack sequence. There are plenty of talents and oppertunities to not dual wield and still get two attack rolls a round. I still wish the use a force power(action) as a manuver talent could be used multiple times maybe with destiny points, but I guess we'll have to wait for more splat books.

There is no Need to ask the DEVS this is a clear situation.

1. Technically comitting dice to sense costs 1 action (removing those dice is an incidental on your turn)

2. Practically you have sense so unless you are going to be ambushed by droids your GM should allow you to activate the power prior to combat (I've got a bad feeling about this)

3. When you activate it assuming you have all of the combat side upgrades you are attacking once with 2 upgrades or attacking twice with 2 upgrades. You are able to defending against up 2 seperate attacks with 2 upgrades to the attackers difficulty.

When defending autofire and linked count as 1 attack since only 1 die roll is made. Thus if two enemies autofire you, you could still upgrade the difficulty on both of their pools.

Ever notice how often in the movies the characters will attack with the lightsaber and use brawl(kicks) in a combat scene. or activate a force push in the middle of an attack sequence. There are plenty of talents and oppertunities to not dual wield and still get two attack rolls a round. I still wish the use a force power(action) as a manuver talent could be used multiple times maybe with destiny points, but I guess we'll have to wait for more splat books.

There is a talent that allows a force power as a maneuver. It is in the seer tree

Nod I wish there was an advanced talent that would allow you to use it more then once

That would be way over powered.

Nod I wish there was an advanced talent that would allow you to use it more then once

Maybe we'll see it as a signature ability for the Mystic or perhaps the Consular sourcebook.

Since signature abilities require Destiny Points to function, are only good for one session, and last a handful of rounds, having a signature ability that enables you to activate Force powers as a maneuver is possible, though it'd need some definite limits to keep it from being too broketastic.

Maybe call it "one with the force"

If it was limited so that you couldn't use 2 action force powers in a round I think it would be pretty dramatic enhance force leap as a manuver onto the bridge lightsaber attack and activate the signature ability (incidental) to strain and force push your opponent off the ledge.

We always see stuff like this in the movies maybe it would last for a number of rounds equal to force rating and would initally cost 2 destiny points to activate with a maximum upgraded cap of 2x force rating for duration with a reduction to 1 destiny point and maybe 2 control bonus of treating 1 force die as 2 LS/DS points.

FDCRB has “One with the Universe” for the Sage specialization, see page 149.

As I said on another topic ( https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/100882-can-you-trigger-senses-duration-upgrade-twice-against-the-same-attack/ ), my view is, that the Duration upgrade simply means, that substitute the "once per round" with "twice per round" on both ongoing effects.

Yes, you can upgrade the same pool twice:

1) There is no rule prohibiting you from doing it

2) Otherwise there was no possibility to use it on the offensive control upgrade.

Yes, it means, that

a) with 1 force die committed: you can upgrade your attack 4 times.

b) with 1 force die committed: you can upgrade the difficulty of 1 attack against you 4 times OR you can upgrade 2 attacks twice.

c) You can use a) and b) together if you have 2 dice to commit.

This is if you go by the rules... I suggest changing that to something, that is less imbalanced and has a little more to do with Duration in your house-rules.

I disagree about triggering multiple times per roll. Your other post mentions that there aren't any ways to attack twice in a round, but there are...they are just super rare. My current group has a leader with Improved Field Commander, and most rounds rolls her leadership, and fairly often pulls a triumph to allow an ally an immediate attack, giving a second attack to upgrade. Not sure if there are others yet, but I would be surprised if there weren't.

Thanks for showing this possiblity. This case, I agree with you. Although I think, that Rulebook should explicitely state not to use it twice on the same action: I didn't find any rule, that clearly states this. (Worth an Errata)

What other possibilites are there to have two attacks in the same round?