I finally got the core rulebook. Wow. So. Much. Stuff! I noticed that attributes are set after character creation (except for the talent boost that I can't recall the name of). At first glance, it seems that putting most of your points into attributes rather than skills is the way to go. Is this pretty much the case or am I missing something?

Pretty much. Even the developers suggest it.

That is pretty much the case. Since you can't spend XP earned from adventures to raise your Characteristics, it generally behooves you to spend at least half (if not more) of your starting XP budget on increasing them as opposed to buying skills or talents, with the purchase of additional specializations generally being seen as one of the less optimal choices of things to spend your starting XP on. Sole exception to that being if you really want to play a Force-sensitive (be it an EotE Exile or Aor Emergent), but even then you're going to have to accept that your Force-user isn't going to be as naturally talented (increased Characteristics) in as many areas as the non-F/S PCs are.

Sole exception to that being if you really want to play a Force-sensitive (be it an EotE Exile or Aor Emergent), but even then you're going to have to accept that your Force-user isn't going to be as naturally talented (increased Characteristics) in as many areas as the non-F/S PCs are.

Sounds like a pretty good balancing mechanic. So is Force Sensitivity something that has to be chosen at character creation? Makes sense if that's the case.

Sole exception to that being if you really want to play a Force-sensitive (be it an EotE Exile or Aor Emergent), but even then you're going to have to accept that your Force-user isn't going to be as naturally talented (increased Characteristics) in as many areas as the non-F/S PCs are.

Sounds like a pretty good balancing mechanic. So is Force Sensitivity something that has to be chosen at character creation? Makes sense if that's the case.

Don't think you have to take it at character creation.

So is Force Sensitivity something that has to be chosen at character creation?

Nope, you can always "discover" this about your character at a later date. Of course, each specialization costs an increasing amount of XP, so if you take it later it's likely to be more expensive...still a good balancing mechanic IMHO.

This question has been giving me sleepless nights. Would anyone be able to give an example build? How many skills and talents would you take at character creation? How would you recommend spreading stats? Is it worth popping one stat up to 4, or is that excessive?

It's not excessive. Three out of six of my players have characteristics at 4 - and one of those number has 4s listed in two of their stats.

Would anyone be able to give an example build?

Here's of my players' sheets:

Name: Adran Cormus

Species: Human

Career: Hired Gun

Specialisations: Mercenary Soldier

Obligation: Criminal 10

Motivation: Ambition (Freedom)

Characteristics: Brawn 2, Agility 3, Intellect 3, Cunning 2, Willpower 3, Presence 2

Soak: 2 (3 with Heavy Clothing)

Defence - General / Ranged / Melee: 0 / 0 / 0

Wounds - Current / Threshold: 0 / 12

Critical Wounds: None

Strain - Current / Threshold: 0 / 13

Skills: Discipline 2, Gunnery 2, Knowledge (Education) 1, Mechanics 1, Piloting (Planetary) 2, Ranged (Light) 1, Vigilance 1

Talents: None

Abilities: None

Force Rating: 0

Force Powers: None

Credits: 55

XP - Available / Spent: 0 / 110

Name: Eraan Churek

Species: Gand (With Lungs)

Career: Technician

Specialisations: Outlaw Tech

Obligation: Criminal 10

Motivation: Ambition (Status)

Characteristics: Brawn 2, Agility 3, Intellect 4, Cunning 2, Willpower 3, Presence 1

Soak: 2

Defence - General / Ranged / Melee: 0 / 0 / 0

Wounds - Current / Threshold: 0 / 12

Critical Wounds: None

Strain - Current / Threshold: 0 / 13

Skills: Astrogation 1, Computers 1, Discipline 1, Knowledge (Education) 1, Mechanics 2, Perception 1

Talents: Tinkerer 1, Utinni! 1

Abilities: Gands with lungs require ammonia respirators to breathe, and treat oxygen as a dangerous atmosphere with Rating 8.

Force Rating: 0

Force Powers: None

Credits: 11

XP - Available / Spent: 0 / 110

Name: Hale Zephyrus

Species: Human

Career: Colonist

Specialisations: Doctor, Force-Sensitive Exile

Obligation: Oath 15

Motivation: Cause (The Weak/Charity)

Characteristics: Brawn 2, Agility 2, Intellect 4, Cunning 2, Willpower 2, Presence 2

Soak: 2

Defence - General / Ranged / Melee: 0 / 0 / 0

Wounds - Current / Threshold: 0 / 12

Critical Wounds: None

Strain - Current / Threshold: 0 / 12

Skills: Athletics 1, Knowledge (Core Worlds) 1, Knowledge (Education) 2, Knowledge (Xenology) 1, Medicine 2, Negotiation 1, Streetwise 1

Talents: Surgeon 1

Abilities: None

Force Rating: 1

Force Powers: Sense Basic Power

Credits: 21

XP - Available / Spent: 5 / 115

Name: Leena

Species: Twi'lek

Career: Smuggler

Specialisations: Scoundrel

Obligation: Addiction 5 / Betrayal 10 / Bounty 5

Motivation: Ambition (Freedom)

Characteristics: Brawn 1, Agility 2, Intellect 2, Cunning 4, Willpower 2, Presence 4

Soak: 1

Defence - General / Ranged / Melee: 0 / 0 / 0

Wounds - Current / Threshold: 0 / 11

Critical Wounds: None

Strain - Current / Threshold: 0 / 13

Skills: Charm 2, Coordination 1, Deception 2, Skulduggery 1, Streetwise 1

Talents: None

Abilities: Twi'leks remove 1 Setback die imposed due to arid or hot environmental conditions.

Force Rating: 0

Force Powers: None

Credits: 134

XP - Available / Spent: 0 / 110

Name: Lofwyroor

Species: Wookiee

Career: Hired Gun

Specialisations: Marauder

Obligation: Bounty 10

Motivation: Cause (Overthrow the Empire)

Characteristics: Brawn 4, Agility 2, Intellect 2, Cunning 2, Willpower 2, Presence 2

Soak: 4

Defence - General / Ranged / Melee: 0 / 0 / 0

Wounds - Current / Threshold: 0 / 18

Critical Wounds: None

Strain - Current / Threshold: 0 / 10

Skills: Athletics 1, Brawl 2, Coercion 1, Melee 2, Ranged (Heavy) 1, Resilience 2, Survival 1

Talents: Feral Strength 1, Lethal Blows 1

Abilities: When a Wookiee has suffered any wounds, he deals +1 damage to Brawl and Melee attacks. When a Wookiee is Critically Injured, he instead deals +2 damage to Brawl and Melee attacks.

Force Rating: 0

Force Powers: None

Credits: 70

XP - Available / Spent: 0 / 90

Name: Thorbin Droma

Species: Human

Career: Colonist

Specialisations: Politico

Obligation: Bounty 10

Motivation: Cause (The Weak/Charity)

Characteristics: Brawn 2, Agility 2, Intellect 3, Cunning 2, Willpower 2, Presence 2

Soak: 2 (3 with Heavy Clothing)

Defence - General / Ranged / Melee: 0 / 0 / 0

Wounds - Current / Threshold: 0 / 12

Critical Wounds: None

Strain - Current / Threshold: 0 / 12

Skills: Charm 1, Coercion 2, Deception 1, Knowledge (Core Worlds) 1, Knowledge (Education) 2, Knowledge (Outer Rim) 1, Negotiation 2, Ranged (Light) 1, Streetwise 1

Talents: Dodge 1, Inspiring Rhetoric, Kill With Kindness 1, Plausible Deniability 1, Scathing Tirade

Abilities: None

Force Rating: 0

Force Powers: None

Credits: 81

XP - Available / Spent: 0 / 110

remember, as a human, you get 8 skills for free right off the bat. 4 of your core career skills, 2 of your specialization skills, and 2 out-of-career skills.

You know, I often wonder if going for one stat at 4 or maybe two stats at 4 is a bit excessive to the point of gimping your character.

Sure you'll be great at tossing 4 dice at your combat checks at all, but you'll be crap at mostly everything else.

Of all the things this game strikes me is a bit more balance then usual. The reason I say that is having 4 dice to toss is great, but you don't really gain a huge advantage over a guy with a 3 ability until you get your skill to 4.

Meanwhile, a more balanced character has more potential early game that carries throughout late game.

Here's an example. We'll use two human characters to compare because it is easier to get a 4 with an alien race then with humans.

Human Gadgeteer Bounty Hunter

2 brawn

4 agility

3 intellect

2 cunning

2 willpower

2 presence

6 career skills, 2 non career

You've already spent 100 points of your 110 before obligation. That leaves you 10 more points for skill upgrades. That's it. Even playing a game with only 2 people you can only get +15 exp from extra obligation. That isn't enough for an additional ability upgrade.

I put the 3 in Intellect, because as a gadgeteer I feel having a good mechanics skill is key. To get the most out of your armor and weapons you'll need it to unlock the best mods. And I always envisioned the gadgeteer constantly tinkering with his/her armor. However, you can put this point where ever, it doesn't matter because you'll always be lacking somewhere.

So lets put it together. You are great at shooting, piloting, decent at mechanics, and are rolling 2 dice on everything else. Including skills that I feel are important to bounty hunters, Streetwise (to track your quarry), Vigilance (to be ready for anything), and Perception (to pick your target out of the crowd). One could argue that Athletics/Resilience could be important as well. Good luck with those bounties.

Let's try again:

Human Gadgeteer Bounty Hunter

2 brawn

3 agility

3 intellect

3 cunning

2 willpower

2 presence

6 career skills, 2 non career

That's spending only 90 points of your starting 110. Now if I take the +10 extra experience I can bump either my brawn (for soak) or my willpower (vigilance!) to a 3 as well. My money would go for willpower. Soak is nice, but that's what you wear that armor for!

At any rate,that gives me 3 dice to toss at almost everything I need to be good at. Sure I might not be as good at shooting or piloting as the guy with 4. But I'm going to be better at everything else that makes a gadgeteer bounty hunter work.

But endgame that guy with 4 is going to be better, right?

Let's see. 4 Agility, 5 combat skill of choice. He's throwing 1 green die, 4 yellow.

3 Agility, 5 combat skill of choice. He's throwing 2 green, 3 yellow.

Really not much difference. Other then in combat the guy with a 4 has one more chance to throw a triumph, that advantage is really moot when you consider typically you're rolling against only 2 difficulty die to hit a target from range. Meanwhile, at max skill you get 2 green 3 yellow on say, Streetwise for example, whereas the guy with 4 agility is getting 3 greens and 2 yellows. On skill checks that can be considerably harder then your typical, shoot the guy from range check.

Additionally, the guy who starts with four skills at 3 will eventually get that +1 ability score in the tree. He can bump agility to 4. That gives him:

2 brawn

4 agility

3 intellect

3 cunning

3 willpower

2 presence

Impressive. The other guy? He gets either:

2 brawn

5 agility

3 intellect

2 cunning

2 willpower

2 presence

or

2 brawn

4 agility

3 intellect

3 cunning

2 willpower

2 presence

See the difference?

You know, I often wonder if going for one stat at 4 or maybe two stats at 4 is a bit excessive to the point of gimping your character.

Sure you'll be great at tossing 4 dice at your combat checks at all, but you'll be crap at mostly everything else.

Of all the things this game strikes me is a bit more balance then usual. The reason I say that is having 4 dice to toss is great, but you don't really gain a huge advantage over a guy with a 3 ability until you get your skill to 4.

Meanwhile, a more balanced character has more potential early game that carries throughout late game.

Here's an example. We'll use two human characters to compare because it is easier to get a 4 with an alien race then with humans.

Human Gadgeteer Bounty Hunter

2 brawn

4 agility

3 intellect

2 cunning

2 willpower

2 presence

6 career skills, 2 non career

You've already spent 100 points of your 110 before obligation. That leaves you 10 more points for skill upgrades. That's it. Even playing a game with only 2 people you can only get +15 exp from extra obligation. That isn't enough for an additional ability upgrade.

I put the 3 in Intellect, because as a gadgeteer I feel having a good mechanics skill is key. To get the most out of your armor and weapons you'll need it to unlock the best mods. And I always envisioned the gadgeteer constantly tinkering with his/her armor. However, you can put this point where ever, it doesn't matter because you'll always be lacking somewhere.

So lets put it together. You are great at shooting, piloting, decent at mechanics, and are rolling 2 dice on everything else. Including skills that I feel are important to bounty hunters, Streetwise (to track your quarry), Vigilance (to be ready for anything), and Perception (to pick your target out of the crowd). One could argue that Athletics/Resilience could be important as well. Good luck with those bounties.

Let's try again:

Human Gadgeteer Bounty Hunter

2 brawn

3 agility

3 intellect

3 cunning

2 willpower

2 presence

6 career skills, 2 non career

That's spending only 90 points of your starting 110. Now if I take the +10 extra experience I can bump either my brawn (for soak) or my willpower (vigilance!) to a 3 as well. My money would go for willpower. Soak is nice, but that's what you wear that armor for!

At any rate,that gives me 3 dice to toss at almost everything I need to be good at. Sure I might not be as good at shooting or piloting as the guy with 4. But I'm going to be better at everything else that makes a gadgeteer bounty hunter work.

But endgame that guy with 4 is going to be better, right?

Let's see. 4 Agility, 5 combat skill of choice. He's throwing 1 green die, 4 yellow.

3 Agility, 5 combat skill of choice. He's throwing 2 green, 3 yellow.

Really not much difference. Other then in combat the guy with a 4 has one more chance to throw a triumph, that advantage is really moot when you consider typically you're rolling against only 2 difficulty die to hit a target from range. Meanwhile, at max skill you get 2 green 3 yellow on say, Streetwise for example, whereas the guy with 4 agility is getting 3 greens and 2 yellows. On skill checks that can be considerably harder then your typical, shoot the guy from range check.

Additionally, the guy who starts with four skills at 3 will eventually get that +1 ability score in the tree. He can bump agility to 4. That gives him:

2 brawn

4 agility

3 intellect

3 cunning

3 willpower

2 presence

Impressive. The other guy? He gets either:

2 brawn

5 agility

3 intellect

2 cunning

2 willpower

2 presence

or

2 brawn

4 agility

3 intellect

3 cunning

2 willpower

2 presence

See the difference?

I did the 4 abilities at 3 with my Doctor(Gangster). I figured he'd be the face and can still punch people and ignore their soak so maxing Brawn out is pointless. Max strain inflicted can be 18 IIRC that pretty much one shots anything so why bother cheesin it up. I'm actually going to go into the politico tree for scathing tirade for even more area effect strainage.

The other thing to consider is that to go from 3 to 4 is costing 40xp, whereas it costs 25xp with talents (considering you could take that 40xp and get 30xp of talents to get closer to it).

In the LONG term you have to consider that getting attributes early allows you to have higher stats eventually, as you run out of specializations to get dedication from. Realistically, though, after a few sessions, the guy who went with talents rather than that four stat is going to be ahead as far as bang for xp buck.

You know, I often wonder if going for one stat at 4 or maybe two stats at 4 is a bit excessive to the point of gimping your character.

Sure you'll be great at tossing 4 dice at your combat checks at all, but you'll be crap at mostly everything else.

Of all the things this game strikes me is a bit more balance then usual. The reason I say that is having 4 dice to toss is great, but you don't really gain a huge advantage over a guy with a 3 ability until you get your skill to 4.

Meanwhile, a more balanced character has more potential early game that carries throughout late game.

Here's an example. We'll use two human characters to compare because it is easier to get a 4 with an alien race then with humans.

Human Gadgeteer Bounty Hunter

2 brawn

4 agility

3 intellect

2 cunning

2 willpower

2 presence

6 career skills, 2 non career

You've already spent 100 points of your 110 before obligation. That leaves you 10 more points for skill upgrades. That's it. Even playing a game with only 2 people you can only get +15 exp from extra obligation. That isn't enough for an additional ability upgrade.

I put the 3 in Intellect, because as a gadgeteer I feel having a good mechanics skill is key. To get the most out of your armor and weapons you'll need it to unlock the best mods. And I always envisioned the gadgeteer constantly tinkering with his/her armor. However, you can put this point where ever, it doesn't matter because you'll always be lacking somewhere.

So lets put it together. You are great at shooting, piloting, decent at mechanics, and are rolling 2 dice on everything else. Including skills that I feel are important to bounty hunters, Streetwise (to track your quarry), Vigilance (to be ready for anything), and Perception (to pick your target out of the crowd). One could argue that Athletics/Resilience could be important as well. Good luck with those bounties.

Let's try again:

Human Gadgeteer Bounty Hunter

2 brawn

3 agility

3 intellect

3 cunning

2 willpower

2 presence

6 career skills, 2 non career

That's spending only 90 points of your starting 110. Now if I take the +10 extra experience I can bump either my brawn (for soak) or my willpower (vigilance!) to a 3 as well. My money would go for willpower. Soak is nice, but that's what you wear that armor for!

At any rate,that gives me 3 dice to toss at almost everything I need to be good at. Sure I might not be as good at shooting or piloting as the guy with 4. But I'm going to be better at everything else that makes a gadgeteer bounty hunter work.

But endgame that guy with 4 is going to be better, right?

Let's see. 4 Agility, 5 combat skill of choice. He's throwing 1 green die, 4 yellow.

3 Agility, 5 combat skill of choice. He's throwing 2 green, 3 yellow.

Really not much difference. Other then in combat the guy with a 4 has one more chance to throw a triumph, that advantage is really moot when you consider typically you're rolling against only 2 difficulty die to hit a target from range. Meanwhile, at max skill you get 2 green 3 yellow on say, Streetwise for example, whereas the guy with 4 agility is getting 3 greens and 2 yellows. On skill checks that can be considerably harder then your typical, shoot the guy from range check.

Additionally, the guy who starts with four skills at 3 will eventually get that +1 ability score in the tree. He can bump agility to 4. That gives him:

2 brawn

4 agility

3 intellect

3 cunning

3 willpower

2 presence

Impressive. The other guy? He gets either:

2 brawn

5 agility

3 intellect

2 cunning

2 willpower

2 presence

or

2 brawn

4 agility

3 intellect

3 cunning

2 willpower

2 presence

See the difference?

This argument makes a lot of sense. I'm going to be piloting, so I was going to bump agility up to 4 (as a Rodian Scout), but I'm not sure now.

I say this in every thread, but the choice to build up your attributes or skills should be more about what suits your character than what is mathematically superior. If you are playing a grizzled old doctor trying to see the galaxy or ex bounty hunter coming out of retirement don't put any experience towards attributes. Buy skills and talents. If you are playing a young character that hasn't done anything but fix moisture vaporators then by all means go all out for attributes.

If you want to be an awesome pilot focus on talents rather than just skill ranks.

I will say this. All of my players are playing humans but one, who is playing a Wookiee. none of them had a 4 in a stat, and only the Wookiee and our bounty hunter ended up with a 3 in more than one stat.

The first 2 sessions were grueling, not because of difficulty (I'm still trying to find that magic balance of difficult vs fun), but the dice pools were kind of small and we only saw one net success our entire second session.

Many of my players had been banking XP, so I gave them a chance to spend their banked XP to bump a 3 to a 4. The Wookiee and our FS:Ex have done this, and since then, the game has been noticeably more enjoyable.

The first 2 sessions could be a sign of bad dice luck, and much of it was, but I think some characteristic adjustment was still a good idea.

The other thing to consider is that to go from 3 to 4 is costing 40xp, whereas it costs 25xp with talents (considering you could take that 40xp and get 30xp of talents to get closer to it).

In the LONG term you have to consider that getting attributes early allows you to have higher stats eventually, as you run out of specializations to get dedication from. Realistically, though, after a few sessions, the guy who went with talents rather than that four stat is going to be ahead as far as bang for xp buck.

I hadn't really thought about the math this way...probably should have went for 3 or 4 3s instead of the 3 brawn and 4 agility...though, making flight (space) and ranged (light)/(heavy) checks on 4 dice is kinda nice...especially with the one yellow I'm currently rolling for each. Im a human Hired Gun - Merc Soldier with 20 Obligation (10 criminal, 10 bounty)...I've been spending all of my earned xp on talents so far, gunning for the dedication stat increase.

I usually tell my players to seriously consider spending at least 60% of their points on characteristics. Most of them end up with around two 3 point characteristics and the rest of their stat line in 2s. This gives them a plethora of points to spend on rounding out their skills, and getting two or three talents.

They all seem happy after doing this.

One note. Pretty sure you can't get four characteristics to 3 when you make your character. I think that the book lets you only spend your starting 100, 110, etc then if you take extra obligation that xp can't be spent on characteristics. @ work so not able to check.

I say this in every thread, but the choice to build up your attributes or skills should be more about what suits your character than what is mathematically superior. If you are playing a grizzled old doctor trying to see the galaxy or ex bounty hunter coming out of retirement don't put any experience towards attributes. Buy skills and talents. If you are playing a young character that hasn't done anything but fix moisture vaporators then by all means go all out for attributes.

If you want to be an awesome pilot focus on talents rather than just skill ranks.

This is a good point. I need to try to get out of this optimization frame of mind from playing Pathfinder.

It's a lot to think of, and I should probably work on my back story before deciding on Stats.

I will say this. All of my players are playing humans but one, who is playing a Wookiee. none of them had a 4 in a stat, and only the Wookiee and our bounty hunter ended up with a 3 in more than one stat.

The first 2 sessions were grueling, not because of difficulty (I'm still trying to find that magic balance of difficult vs fun), but the dice pools were kind of small and we only saw one net success our entire second session.

Many of my players had been banking XP, so I gave them a chance to spend their banked XP to bump a 3 to a 4. The Wookiee and our FS:Ex have done this, and since then, the game has been noticeably more enjoyable.

The first 2 sessions could be a sign of bad dice luck, and much of it was, but I think some characteristic adjustment was still a good idea.

I'd say that was more bad luck then anything else. Unless your group was failing one roll after another, when suddenly "attribute bump", then you were only passing rolls by one success that just HAPPENED to turn up on the extra green die....

An extra green die gives you a 4 out of 8 chance of turning up at least one success (50%). A yellow gives a 8 out of 12 chance of turning up at least one success (66.6... repeating, natch! %). Its not an increase in the amount of green dice that dramatically increase your chances mathematically. Its the increase in yellow dice. That's why I say starting with a 4 is not worth the points compared to 3 until you get those skills that use that four ability to level 4. Because it is only then when you are tossing 4 yellow dice that you have an actual advantage.

One note. Pretty sure you can't get four characteristics to 3 when you make your character. I think that the book lets you only spend your starting 100, 110, etc then if you take extra obligation that xp can't be spent on characteristics. @ work so not able to check.

Actually, the way I'm reading the book, character creation starts with step 1: background then moves to step 2: obligation, where you can choose to take additional obligation. You don't even pick your race and class until step 3 and 4. So yes, that extra experience CAN be used to bump to four characteristics of 3 if you so desire.

I will say this. All of my players are playing humans but one, who is playing a Wookiee. none of them had a 4 in a stat, and only the Wookiee and our bounty hunter ended up with a 3 in more than one stat.

The first 2 sessions were grueling, not because of difficulty (I'm still trying to find that magic balance of difficult vs fun), but the dice pools were kind of small and we only saw one net success our entire second session.

Many of my players had been banking XP, so I gave them a chance to spend their banked XP to bump a 3 to a 4. The Wookiee and our FS:Ex have done this, and since then, the game has been noticeably more enjoyable.

The first 2 sessions could be a sign of bad dice luck, and much of it was, but I think some characteristic adjustment was still a good idea.

I'd say that was more bad luck then anything else. Unless your group was failing one roll after another, when suddenly "attribute bump", then you were only passing rolls by one success that just HAPPENED to turn up on the extra green die....

An extra green die gives you a 4 out of 8 chance of turning up at least one success (50%). A yellow gives a 8 out of 12 chance of turning up at least one success (66.6... repeating, natch! %). Its not an increase in the amount of green dice that dramatically increase your chances mathematically. Its the increase in yellow dice. That's why I say starting with a 4 is not worth the points compared to 3 until you get those skills that use that four ability to level 4. Because it is only then when you are tossing 4 yellow dice that you have an actual advantage.

One note. Pretty sure you can't get four characteristics to 3 when you make your character. I think that the book lets you only spend your starting 100, 110, etc then if you take extra obligation that xp can't be spent on characteristics. @ work so not able to check.

Actually, the way I'm reading the book, character creation starts with step 1: background then moves to step 2: obligation, where you can choose to take additional obligation. You don't even pick your race and class until step 3 and 4. So yes, that extra experience CAN be used to bump to four characteristics of 3 if you so desire.

That's the way I understood it.

The beginners game has a character with 4 3 stats (the scout you can download). However min/maxing aside you can start the game with a lot of level 1 and level 2 skills if you forgo raising stats, this gives you a lot of double yellow skills to begin with, or a lot of talents. Imagine a mercenary soldier who , out the starting gate has

Command 5

Second Wind 10

Field Commander 15

Command 15

Grit 20

True Aim 25

Deadly accuracy 25

Okay now you have a starting charcter that can grant 2 people an extra maneuver on a leadership skill check. His leadership gets 2 bonus dice . When he attacks himself he gets to upgrade his attack dice and get a bonus of (ranks in skill) extra damage from deadly accuracy.

For 20 more you can get improved field commander as his next talent or increase a stat for 25 xp or another true aim + stat increase for 50 xp. While you might fall behind at the back end it does give a lot of utility when you start and , while I would not doe it myself, you woildnt ruin your character in doing so.