Something to counter the royal guard interceptors, hopefully.

The YT-1300 already exists, put a gunner or Luke on Chewie and make interceptors cry.

If you wanted to be a real d-bag about it you could also run a squad leader Jan Orz so that Chewie could attack for 5 dice at range one with TL/F and basically just oneshot an interceptor every turn.

You could seriously run Chewie + Gunner, Jan Orz SL + Ion, Rebel Op + Blaster Turret and come in at 99pts. All of your ships don't care about facing as they are all turret boats and if they decide to focus down the HWK-290's Chewie will just clean up house hard, where as if they focus on Chewie he is durable enough to survive a round or two and the HWK-290's help bring down anything Chewie doesn't one shot.

The strength of interceptors is mobility, if you completely remove the advantage of flanking and mobility by running a team with lots if not all 360 firing arcs you really shut down interceptors hard.

Except now you just give an interceptor a hull upgrade and they'll almost never be one-shotted.

I'm really hoping for some bounty hunter ships.

Alot of options, some really cool pilots and ships out there.

Hound's tooth, Slave II, Punishing One, IG-2000, Vigor's ship, etc.

Good stuff. Would really be fun.

I put this in another thread, but they could do a "Shadows of the Empire" wave:

Rebels:

Outrider, Dash Rendar's ship (http://starwars.wiki...m/wiki/Outrider)

Mist Hunter, Zuckuss's ship (http://starwars.wiki...iki/Mist_Hunter)

Empire:

Virago, Xizor's ship (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Virago)

IG-2000, IG-88's ship (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/IG-2000)

I was originally torn about whether or not to guess "Skipray Blastboat" for the Imperials. My reservation was the thought that they would need to put it on a large base.

They could make it on a small base, as the Skipray is listed at 25m long and the HWK-290 is listed at 29m long.

So my revised guess would be:

Rebels:

Z-95 Headhunter ($15, small base) cheapest and worst of Rebel vessels

YT-2400 ($30, large base) a la YT-1300, but smaller, faster and cheaper overall

Imperials:

Skipray Blastboat ($15, small base) the Imps answer to the HWK-290

TIE Defender ($15, small base) could also be the TIE Avenger, but somehow I think the tri-wing will win out for style reasons.

But with fighters having 4 stats and the average stats ranging from 1 to 3 how much variety can you give ships until they simply look the same on either side just with different models and names?

Having said that they have stretched out of the average with the Y and B Wings as well as the Bomber.

I didn't mention the large ships because if you raise the points you will obviously have more room.

I'm not a designer but even the large ships have problems. Right now fighters can roll up to 7 atk dice and a defender has me 3 evade dice which are already statistically inferior. The chance to outright one shot most ships will be Imbalanced. Then u have other ships which are clearly superior to a tie interceptor or xwing. U can't just give them 4 red dice or give Capitol ships 5-6 red dice without I balancing the game.

My idea is to create a new purple atk die with 1 less blank and 1 more crit. This statistically make the weapon better and keeps balance. Now you can create a tie defender or tie avenger and it can roll 1 purple and 2 red dice and its statistically better then an interceptor. You can create Capitol ships which roll 3 purple dice which statistically are much better and still gives the small fighters a chance to survive the atk. This idea allows for variety of future more powerful ships without invalidating older ships. The max number of hits is the same the only difference is the chance to hit and score a crit is increased.

But with fighters having 4 stats and the average stats ranging from 1 to 3 how much variety can you give ships until they simply look the same on either side just with different models and names?

Having said that they have stretched out of the average with the Y and B Wings as well as the Bomber.

I didn't mention the large ships because if you raise the points you will obviously have more room.

My idea is to create a new purple atk die with 1 less blank and 1 more crit. This statistically make the weapon better and keeps balance. Now you can create a tie defender or tie avenger and it can roll 1 purple and 2 red dice and its statistically better then an interceptor. You can create Capitol ships which roll 3 purple dice which statistically are much better and still gives the small fighters a chance to survive the atk. This idea allows for variety of future more powerful ships without invalidating older ships. The max number of hits is the same the only difference is the chance to hit and score a crit is increased.

I think this is an interesting idea. I really want to see the specs and gameplay info on the capital ships. It will be very ineteresting to see how FFG does this.

I'm also a little worried though. The fleet ships have been a point of contetntion within the community. I, personally, am all for them, but I hope the mechancis keep the game smooth and balanced.

I was originally torn about whether or not to guess "Skipray Blastboat" for the Imperials. My reservation was the thought that they would need to put it on a large base.

They could make it on a small base, as the Skipray is listed at 25m long and the HWK-290 is listed at 29m long.

Just FYI, wookiepedia is wrong on the length of the HWK-290/Moldy Crown (according to LFL, and as a result the FFG model). It's actually 16.6 m long. (I think it's 16.6, it's 16.something).

I would recommend against it, but you can search for the scale discussions on here and on BGG. There are was all kinds of internet "drama" when the HWK was announced.

I'm not sure what the "official" measurements are on the skipray blastboat, but the sources i have seen list it as about twice the length of an x-wing. Seems like it would be a large base

I also have a hard time seeing how they could add both the tie defender and the tie avenger while making them significantly distinguished from one another and not rendering the TIE advanced completely obsolete. Although it would make sense considering the avenger is the next evolution from the advanced, I don't think it's good for the game for any ship that people have purchased to be made obsolete.

Regarding advanced Imperial snub fighters:

TIE/Avenger- this is the production varient of Vader's TIE/X-1 Advanced. Per Wookiepedia, it has 4 lasers, so that is the same as the TIE/IN. It posesses shields like the TIE/Advanced and is quoted as being fast and maneuverable, so a maneuver dial similar to the TIE/IN at best or TIE/Advanced at worst. It should be able to perform all the same actions as the TIE/Advanced and have a Missile option. It is also FTL capable but this is beyond the scope of the game. So, something like this:

PS: ? AT: 3 EV: 3 HU: 3 SH: 2

Evade, Barrel-Roll, Focus, Target Lock, Boost

EPS, Modification, Missile, ?

TIE/Defender- even more advanced version of above. Firepower-wise, it has the same four lasers as the TIE/IN but it also carries two Ion Cannons (Optional mounts?) as well as Missile capabilities. Wookiepedia says that it is faster than the TIE/Avenger (but not greatly so). Hull is listed as similar to the TIE/Avenger and not that special. Shields should be superior to the TIE/Avenger. Maneuverability? Superior to TIE/Avenger but what does that mean? I'd suggest a dial similar to the TIE/Avenger but favoring a dial more similar to the TIE/IN rather than the TIE/Advanced. So, something like this:

PS: ? AT: 3 EV: 3 HU: 3 SH: 3

Evade, Barrel-Roll, Focus, Target Lock, Boost

EPS, Modification, Cannon (Ion only), Missile, ?

Chris

But with fighters having 4 stats and the average stats ranging from 1 to 3 how much variety can you give ships until they simply look the same on either side just with different models and names?

Having said that they have stretched out of the average with the Y and B Wings as well as the Bomber.

I didn't mention the large ships because if you raise the points you will obviously have more room.

My idea is to create a new purple atk die with 1 less blank and 1 more crit. This statistically make the weapon better and keeps balance. Now you can create a tie defender or tie avenger and it can roll 1 purple and 2 red dice and its statistically better then an interceptor. You can create Capitol ships which roll 3 purple dice which statistically are much better and still gives the small fighters a chance to survive the atk. This idea allows for variety of future more powerful ships without invalidating older ships. The max number of hits is the same the only difference is the chance to hit and score a crit is increased.

I think this is an interesting idea. I really want to see the specs and gameplay info on the capital ships. It will be very ineteresting to see how FFG does this.

I'm also a little worried though. The fleet ships have been a point of contetntion within the community. I, personally, am all for them, but I hope the mechancis keep the game smooth and balanced.

I like the aproach west end games took with different scale combat. and this extra die would make sense. but it increases the chance oh hitting. that i dont like. in west ends RPG and even in Wizards of the Coast RPG, the larger scale units had a harder time connecting with the faster more agile ships.

to be able to bring that aspect into this game would make it easier for me to accept.

now dont get me wrong, anti starfighter turrets would still have a good chance of hitting, but the damage would be about the same as a fighter. the corelean gunship for instance was built as an anti fighter ship. it is armed with several of the same turrets as the falcon, and it is a capitol ship.

but turbo lasers or laser cannons should have a hard time tracking and hitting small fighters.

i would give the guns more damage dice, but counter with giving bonus evade dice to fighters. thus not needing a new dice to buy.

They could make it on a small base, as the Skipray is listed at 25m long and the HWK-290 is listed at 29m long.

I dunno' how many times it has to be said, but the HWK-290 isn't 29m long.

Whatever the case may be, I'd like to see bi-factional units. Pirate fighters that can act as their own faction, or be used by both Rebels and Imperials.

They could make it on a small base, as the Skipray is listed at 25m long and the HWK-290 is listed at 29m long.

I dunno' how many times it has to be said, but the HWK-290 isn't 29m long.

Whatever the case may be, I'd like to see bi-factional units. Pirate fighters that can act as their own faction, or be used by both Rebels and Imperials.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/HWK-290

Length

29 meters^[1]

Just because you say something doesn't make you correct, regardless of what you believe the official number is 29m.

Nope, the fact that that number came from the RPG which pulled it out of the air, and the ship in the game is obviously smaller when you compare it to the other ships and characters in the game suggests it's wrong.

FFG went directly to the source and found out the number, and it matches what you see in the game so I feel their length is more likely to be correct.

Well then someone needs to update... and have fun getting Wookiepedia to change ANYTHING, I've been trying to get them to reconcile Teren Rogriss' position as defense minister on Adumar and fighting against Admiral Pellaeon at Adumar with his actions in the second battle of Orinda where he commanded a Super Star Destroyer ALONGSIDE Pellaeon against the New Republic.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/HWK-290

I dunno' how many times it has to be said, but the HWK-290 isn't 29m long.

They could make it on a small base, as the Skipray is listed at 25m long and the HWK-290 is listed at 29m long.

Whatever the case may be, I'd like to see bi-factional units. Pirate fighters that can act as their own faction, or be used by both Rebels and Imperials.

Length

29 meters^[1]

Just because you say something doesn't make you correct, regardless of what you believe the official number is 29m.

And how many people need to correct you that the Lucas Arts official canon is 16m-17m, regardless of what you have read on a website?

Just because you are wrong, there is no need to be rude as well. Jeez, I'm wrong a lot of the time but don't find a need to get shirty about it.

The Kihraxz has been getting a lot of exposure from FFG recently, being in the the card game, rpg and making a cameo on one the HWK-290 cards.

Well ... every wave has been spoilt in the cards of the previous wave. Want to read anything into that?

They could make it on a small base, as the Skipray is listed at 25m long and the HWK-290 is listed at 29m long.

I dunno' how many times it has to be said, but the HWK-290 isn't 29m long.

Whatever the case may be, I'd like to see bi-factional units. Pirate fighters that can act as their own faction, or be used by both Rebels and Imperials.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/HWK-290

Length

29 meters^[1]

Just because you say something doesn't make you correct, regardless of what you believe the official number is 29m.

Bro.

The Moldy Crow is my baby. I know her very well.

Noticed that. I'm betting it'll appear in X-wing.

The arguments over the Moldy Crow are legendary, so I will say I am sorry for snarking, but I will not say sorry for having a different number given that hardly anyone agrees on it.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Moldy_Crow

Seriously, read that and tell me the argument is "clear-cut." I mean, hell, some people don't even believe that the HWK-290 and the Moldy Crow are the same gotdang ship!

The arguments over the Moldy Crow are legendary, so I will say I am sorry for snarking, but I will not say sorry for having a different number given that hardly anyone agrees on it.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Moldy_Crow

Seriously, read that and tell me the argument is "clear-cut." I mean, hell, some people don't even believe that the HWK-290 and the Moldy Crow are the same gotdang ship!

This bickering is pointless. The truth is clear-enough-cut no matter which wiki-derps decide to interpret it differently.

The ship was designed for the Dark Forces series where it is absolutely no larger than 16 meters. Whatever intellectual properties that borrowed the ship afterwards and made up a bunch of ancillary and arbitrary bullsh*t (WEG), or websites that have no bearing on canon one way or another (Wookieepedia), the indisputable fact is that the source material is the source of the material.

In the games where this ship originated, the length is measurable to within a few centimeters of accuracy due to the game models in comparison to measurable quantities (such as the height of the game characters). I have spent enough time editing Jedi Knight levels to be able to claim some authority on this. You know who else can claim some authority on it? Lucasfilm Licensing. You know who can't? Wookieepedia.

In the games where this ship originated, the length is measurable to within a few centimeters of accuracy due to the game models in comparison to measurable quantities (such as the height of the game characters). I have spent enough time editing Jedi Knight levels to be able to claim some authority on this. You know who else can claim some authority on it? Lucasfilm Licensing. You know who can't? Wookieepedia.

It's a canon encyclopedia, it uses canon sources. If the Dark Forces game guide had given dimmensions for the Moldy Crow, or the in game included a databank for the Moldy Crow and said it was 16m then it would be no problem. You don't seem to understand how canon policy works, because its a nasty policy in any franchise. Let me give you a few examples across different, well known, science fiction.

In Star Trek

- Paramount canon policy states that only what is on screen is canon, no video-games, no books, no expanded universe, things can be MADE canon by being shown on screen, but that is all. (Example, while a book originally published that Uhura's first name was "Nyota" it wasn't until the 2009 Star Trek movie that it became Canon)

Stargate

- According to their canon policy, things said are more important than things SEEN, this is why according to many sources the Deadalus and the Prometheus are sister ships. Now I've been studying naval architecture and designs for YEARS (10+) and I will tell you in no uncertain terms that using the term "Sister Ships" for these two vessels is like saying the Titanic and the Radisson Diamond are sister ships.

And now back to Star Wars

- According to Canon policy what gets published is what is canon thanks to Lucasfilm Licensing (this makes awful, awful, badly written works like the Jedi Prince trilogy canon, though many parts of it have been retroactively modified to fit greater continuity) this is contrary to what we can put together VIA game visuals, this can make sense in certain aspects as certain things get lost in terms of realism vs. game mechanics, (can you imagine what the HALO universe would do if it were forced to reconcile the final level of Halo-Combat Evolved with what the dorsal surface of the Pillar of Autumn ACTUALLY looks like?), so back when a game guide published that it's length was 29m it became canon, regardless of what "made sense" or what people could discern by overlaying pixels and estimating based on game models. Yes it was an AssPull but it was a Canon pull. So now that FFG has made a model, which they state is to scale and have it judged by LFL to be canon, it is now canon and a conflicting canon source. This is called a Retcon, I assume you and many others know what that is.

Now all that said if you didn't just go "tl;dr" if a game guide said it was 29m, it was 29m until it was contradicted by a published source regardless of anything discerned from in-game models. What FFG has done is vindicate the people who used in-game models to determine the size of the ship by stating that everything is "in scale" and their scale makes it 16m and they have backing from LFL (but do remember SO DID THE GUYS WHO MADE THAT ERRONEOUS GAME GUIDE).

In the games where this ship originated, the length is measurable to within a few centimeters of accuracy due to the game models in comparison to measurable quantities (such as the height of the game characters). I have spent enough time editing Jedi Knight levels to be able to claim some authority on this. You know who else can claim some authority on it? Lucasfilm Licensing. You know who can't? Wookieepedia.

It's a canon encyclopedia, it uses canon sources. If the Dark Forces game guide had given dimmensions for the Moldy Crow, or the in game included a databank for the Moldy Crow and said it was 16m then it would be no problem. You don't seem to understand how canon policy works, because its a nasty policy in any franchise. Let me give you a few examples across different, well known, science fiction.

In Star Trek

- Paramount canon policy states that only what is on screen is canon, no video-games, no books, no expanded universe, things can be MADE canon by being shown on screen, but that is all. (Example, while a book originally published that Uhura's first name was "Nyota" it wasn't until the 2009 Star Trek movie that it became Canon)

Stargate

- According to their canon policy, things said are more important than things SEEN, this is why according to many sources the Deadalus and the Prometheus are sister ships. Now I've been studying naval architecture and designs for YEARS (10+) and I will tell you in no uncertain terms that using the term "Sister Ships" for these two vessels is like saying the Titanic and the Radisson Diamond are sister ships.

And now back to Star Wars

- According to Canon policy what gets published is what is canon thanks to Lucasfilm Licensing (this makes awful, awful, badly written works like the Jedi Prince trilogy canon, though many parts of it have been retroactively modified to fit greater continuity) this is contrary to what we can put together VIA game visuals, this can make sense in certain aspects as certain things get lost in terms of realism vs. game mechanics, (can you imagine what the HALO universe would do if it were forced to reconcile the final level of Halo-Combat Evolved with what the dorsal surface of the Pillar of Autumn ACTUALLY looks like?), so back when a game guide published that it's length was 29m it became canon, regardless of what "made sense" or what people could discern by overlaying pixels and estimating based on game models. Yes it was an AssPull but it was a Canon pull. So now that FFG has made a model, which they state is to scale and have it judged by LFL to be canon, it is now canon and a conflicting canon source. This is called a Retcon, I assume you and many others know what that is.

Now all that said if you didn't just go "tl;dr" if a game guide said it was 29m, it was 29m until it was contradicted by a published source regardless of anything discerned from in-game models. What FFG has done is vindicate the people who used in-game models to determine the size of the ship by stating that everything is "in scale" and their scale makes it 16m and they have backing from LFL (but do remember SO DID THE GUYS WHO MADE THAT ERRONEOUS GAME GUIDE).

Son, the only information you bring to light here that I'm not already familiar with is Stargate canonicity. I know how canonicity and licensing works. I know how intellectual property and copyright work. It may be worth pointing out that there are different levels of canon in Star Wars, each having its own degree of "truthiness". It's likely you already know this, but it would have some relevance in a debate on canonicity.

Are we having a debate on canonicity? We should consider the HWK to be successfully retconned (a concept I am also familiar with), and that's that—end of debate. In the 90's, some peripheral-but-licensed material made up a ridiculous figure that worked with what they were trying to do for an already-existing ship designed for something else, by someone else. Fast-forward to this year; FFG and LFL both cite a length of 16m. Wookieepedia, which can be EDITED BY YOUR MOM and therefore of questionable level of canonicity, and WEG sourcebooks from the distant past are no longer the "official" sources of that information.

In fact, I am not having a debate on canonicty. Before you even get to canonicty there is a concept called "objective truth". Let me be clear:

• The Moldy Crow is about 16m long in any of its measurable appearances in the source games.

• FFG built a mini, some additional fluff notwithstanding, to represent that original ship,

• Regardless of your adherence to ancillary, meaningless bullsh*t.