I know I brought up real life as an example but posts after mine definitely made the point bettererer.

Maybe its just a feeling but I don't think I'd like it if one failed roll put a task beyond my character's ability to succeed all the time but I'd agree that allowing a player to keep rolling until he finally got a successful roll wouldn't be good either.

I'm sure we wouldn't have seen Princess Leia sitting in her cell waiting to be rescued if she could have just kept rolling and rolling to break the door down until she got a lucky dice roll. Or, better yet, she could have just kept rolling and rolling to DESTROY the Death Star from her cell!

I think sometimes we have to get ourselves out of a D&D type mindset, with things like 'rolling every round' or 'taking 20'. This system seems to require a new paradigm, and I think it's a good thing. The whole nebulous 'narrative' thing takes a while to get into the right mindset.

Also, you can still have abysmal luck in EoE. Our first session with pregens was a complete disaster. Part of it was the fact we didn't know the system well, but part of it was just wretched misfortune. I let the players make more established characters for our first real session last weekend, but we were also a lot luckier with our rolls. (And for the record, I still think starting EoE characters are too scrubby!

Reminds me of our first game of 4E a few years back. None of the player's first ten d20 rolls was higher than 5. In retrospect, I think the dice were just warning us about the grind.

I know I brought up real life as an example but posts after mine definitely made the point bettererer.

Maybe its just a feeling but I don't think I'd like it if one failed roll put a task beyond my character's ability to succeed all the time but I'd agree that allowing a player to keep rolling until he finally got a successful roll wouldn't be good either.

I'm sure we wouldn't have seen Princess Leia sitting in her cell waiting to be rescued if she could have just kept rolling and rolling to break the door down until she got a lucky dice roll. Or, better yet, she could have just kept rolling and rolling to DESTROY the Death Star from her cell!

yes, but if Leia being stuck in the cell with no other option meant that the story ends right here, then you have to allow the narrative to continue, if the game cant continue without a success then its a success, otherwise we might as well pack up and go home and retire our characters. The point is that if a failure stops the game continuing its up to the gm to either allow success, but have the roll signify something other than success/failure

Or

Narrate an alternative option

Or

Do anything that progresses the story in some way, perhaps at a disadvantage to the players. If its the poinf in the beginner game, I think it was, there were at least 4 options for how to get the docking clamps removed. Also I agree 5 rolls with no advantage is going to be rare.

yes, but if Leia being stuck in the cell with no other option meant that the story ends right here, then you have to allow the narrative to continue, if the game cant continue without a success then its a success, otherwise we might as well pack up and go home and retire our characters. The point is that if a failure stops the game continuing its up to the gm to either allow success, but have the roll signify something other than success/failure

Oh so dramatic

Well whatever you are going to do is going to have to involve some change in the situation or Leia isn't going to get out of that cell. It's up to both the players and the GM to create opportunities to allow for more rolls. It doesn't have to be complex just something remotely possible. Maybe there just isn't a way to get out of that Maximum Security cell and the escape has to be triggered from the outside, like what happened in the movie, or when they come and get her for another demonstration of the power of that battle station, or even her execution. Just because you can't get the cell door open doesn't mean you should throw a tantrum and whine to your Mommy.

Or sometimes, well you F'd up and now you're gunna die...

The point is to not just have a roll until success dynamic.

The point is to not just have a roll until success dynamic.

I think most people are on the same train of thought here, my point was that if the roll was that important then there was other ways of dealing with it that involve less tedium, and I thought the whole idea of the game was to be dramatic

I think most people are on the same train of thought here, my point was that if the roll was that important then there was other ways of dealing with it that involve less tedium, and I thought the whole idea of the game was to be dramatic

Fair enough. But the example the OP used was getting through the locked side door of the space port control place in the beginning adventure, so failing wasn't game breaking only that they would have to use the front entrance or find another way in. If it's a single point of entry into the next scene then that may be more a poor adventure design problem.

I like what Burning Wheel has to say on this matter -- if you can't make failure interesting, don't make a roll.