Yesterday the next "line of events or actions" take place at the start of the game:

I have in play

Arianne Martell

Type: Character House: Martell
Cost: 4
STR: 3 Icon: Intrigue,Power
Lady.
Stealth.
While Arianne Martell is attacking, raise the Claim value on your revealed plot card by 1.
Crest: Noble
"Martell brings some formidable companions, it would seem."
Set: PotS

with this attachments on her:

Rhoynish Steed

Poisoned Spear

Attached character gains joust.
Response: After you win a challenge in which attached character participated, kneel Poisoned Spear to choose and kill a character with no icon

AND two

Orphan of the Greenblood

• Type: Character House: Martell
  Cost: 0
  STR: 0 Icon:
  Ally.
  Any Phase: Discard Orphan of the Greenblood from play (cannot be saved) to choose 1 character. Until the end of the phase, that character loses a Military, an Intrigue, and a Power icon.
  Set: PotS

I was elected to act first.

In the challenge phase I attack with Arianne and use her stealth ability to prevent a character to defend, the defense player, with only one more "intrigue icon" character to defend lose against Arianne but he chooses not to defend; then the chaos begins:

1. I collect 1 power for my house because an unopposed challenge

2. Instead of discard 2 cards for his hand (because my claim value of 1 and the Arianne's power) I return 1 of his characters to his hand.

3. I discard one Orphan to remove the only icon another of his characters has (military icon) in order to use the

4. Poisoned spear: Kill his character because he dont have any icons.

He tells me that the "order" was wrong because I use the "Steed" power first and then the "challenge" is over and can't use the "spear" anymore.

The correct "line of effects", according to the other player, is:

1: Orphan

2: Spear

3: Steed

I think the order is really irrelevant because "ALL" the effects happen at the "SAME TIME" is only matter of how I play it.

Please help on this.

EXTRA:

Is the ability of Arianne Martell a "Triggered" ability??

I say yes but, how I know for sure??

Yesterday play on her the

And I was "0K" on dont use her power.

Is this right??

Thanks all

you would need to use the orphan during the player action window after declaring stealth and him declaring defenders (or in this case, no defenders) because the orphan's ability is a player action and, therefore, in the example you provided, could not be used until after the opportunity to use the response on the spear had passed.

The Steed will come before the Spear 100% of the time. The Steed has a claim replacement effect, and claim always happens before responses to winning a challenge. It basically goes like this:

1. Decide who won the challenge.

2. Fulfill Claim (if attacker won)

3. Renown

4. All other passives that are applicable.

5. Responses that are applicable.

The Steed happens in part 2, while the Spear is activated until part 5.

Having said all that. The Orphan would have to be triggered before you start the win/lose framework block. So, you couldn't have done what you wanted to do anyways.

About Arianne's ability. It is a passive ability, and not a triggered ability. Bowl of Brown does not effect the passive from occurring. Note that her passive is considered in the second step and not the 4th, because it directly affects Claim.

About Arianne's ability. It is a passive ability, and not a triggered ability. Bowl of Brown does not effect the passive from occurring. Note that her passive is considered in the second step and not the 4th, because it directly affects Claim.

It's not a passive effect, it's a conditional constant effect.

That's definitely true. I was just trying to give an explanation that would be easy to understand. It doesn't sound like this guy has even read the FAQ enough to know a difference between constant and passive effects.

I was just trying to give an explanation that would be easy to understand.

That's a horrible idea if the explanation is wrong.

Only if he wants to be a pro player. If he just wants to play with a group of friends who don't care about competitive play,then it's most definitely the right way to go, imo. I think people forget that the major market for AGoT LCG is still casuals. Not everyone who comes on here wants an in-depth answer. Sometimes, they just want something that they can understand.

While I agree with sWhiteboy in principle... I can't help but say if someone who is only looking for casual play comes to the forums, they would be hard-pressed to find a simple explanation... to anything .

Conditional constants, passives, windows, actions, moribund, control-change stacks... egads. There is very little that is simple once you dig beyond the surface.

Only if he wants to be a pro player. If he just wants to play with a group of friends who don't care about competitive play,then it's most definitely the right way to go, imo. I think people forget that the major market for AGoT LCG is still casuals. Not everyone who comes on here wants an in-depth answer. Sometimes, they just want something that they can understand.

Except that you didn't provide a simplified explanation, you gave an in-depth explanation (talking about different steps in the timing structure) that did little to make this clear for more casual players and instead applied wrong terminology (and subsequently wrong timing) to an effect -- this is not helping anyone. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but if you're going to be condescending and dismissive to another member on the board (no matter how misguided his or her inquiries), you can't make a mistake in your explanation and then claim to have done it to help people instead of acknowledging it as a mistake.

I said that you were right. Calling a conditional constant a passive effect is a mistake, but it was one I made on purpose because I believe that from the perspective of a new player (who clearly hasn't read the FAQ), the concept is easier to understand. Obviously, the guy (I also acknowledge that assuming they are a guy is wrong) had no problem understanding my explanation; he liked my post and he didn't post again with more questions. Eventually, if he decides to go more in-depth, then he'll read the FAQ and realize that I was mistaken. After that, he'll either come back here to see that I was corrected, or he'll figure it out for himself.

As far as MDC goes, my frustration with him comes from the fact that he purposely pollutes the board with contradictory "rulings" because he feels that the FAQ/Rules aren't clear enough (especially for rulings that were grandfathered in from the CCG era). That is just not the way his issues should be handled. A random post on these boards will amount to nothing from FFG 99% of the time. Once MDC comes up with situation that he feels isn't clear enough, he should send an e-mail to FFG and call it a day. The whole thing doesn't even need to be posted on the boards because they aren't questions about rules, but instead questions about the rule book. He has valid points at times, but all he does by posting his findings here is hurt newcomers. Though...I'm not sure how that is exactly relevant to this thread.