Outside of increased RF chance and X damage and 1 higher RoF (all of which are of marginal importance), does the HB have any advantages over the ML? They have the same availability and range; the ML does more damage, significantly more, so that the HB's higher Pen doesn't really matter.

the ML is better, the +1 ROF of the HB doesnt really matter much since you rarly get the DoS to use it anyways

Tearing is trumped by the 2d10 vs 1d10 of the ML, which is even reliable

considering absolut minimal rolls the ML does 12 dmg Pen 2 and the Hb does 9 dmg Pen 5 so even the Pen is a drawback against everything with armour below 5 the ML wins in dmg

the only reason i can think of the HB being more useful is with special ammunition, unlikly for guardsman

magazin capacity is in the MLs favour too

in my mind the HB is just for flair and vehicle sponsors and front weapons

altough i admit i consider it the more stylisch infantry heavy weapon

I suppose if Horde rules were being used the HB's X damage would matter more.

indeed good point, also counts for the new formation rules from Enemies of the Empire
not a big difference tough

edit: just checked again, only spray and blast have additional casulties in formations, so only hordes take more damage

Outside of increased RF chance and X damage and 1 higher RoF (all of which are of marginal importance), does the HB have any advantages over the ML?

Yes. There are no standard man-portable patterns of multi-laser; at the moment I'm only aware of it existing as a vehicle mount on a chimera or sentinal.

Outside of increased RF chance and X damage and 1 higher RoF (all of which are of marginal importance), does the HB have any advantages over the ML?

Yes. There are no standard man-portable patterns of multi-laser; at the moment I'm only aware of it existing as a vehicle mount on a chimera or sentinal.

I was wondering about this but didn't see it spelled out anywhere, and since the multilaser's weight is actually about the same as the heavy bolter ...

This is the case for the multimelta as well?

Outside of increased RF chance and X damage and 1 higher RoF (all of which are of marginal importance), does the HB have any advantages over the ML?

Yes. There are no standard man-portable patterns of multi-laser; at the moment I'm only aware of it existing as a vehicle mount on a chimera or sentinal.

Wait. The Sentry in Hammer of the Emperor can take a multilaser, so there must be a man-portable version.

there is a tripod mounted version the cadians use

Don't see why you couldnt put on on a gun-carriage (Pg121 Hammer of the Emperor), they have an independant magazine so they dont have to run off a sentinal, tauros or chimmy's power supply.

Having had characters in other games with a multi-laser or heavy bolter, what it mostly came to there was convenience and long term durabilty with charge packs being easy to get full again, versus very high average damage of a marine with some specific bolter talents to make it hurt like a right bastard.

So for one, the choice was that the weapon would be fairly simple, recharged off their potentia coils and a work-horse, the other had short-term missions where often it was a case of frequently turning screaming hordes into chunks of steaming meat with the equivalent of a man-portable Mk19 automatic grende launcher.

Don't see why you couldnt put on on a gun-carriage (Pg121 Hammer of the Emperor), they have an independant magazine so they dont have to run off a sentinal, tauros or chimmy's power supply.

Having had characters in other games with a multi-laser or heavy bolter, what it mostly came to there was convenience and long term durabilty with charge packs being easy to get full again, versus very high average damage of a marine with some specific bolter talents to make it hurt like a right bastard.

So for one, the choice was that the weapon would be fairly simple, recharged off their potentia coils and a work-horse, the other had short-term missions where often it was a case of frequently turning screaming hordes into chunks of steaming meat with the equivalent of a man-portable Mk19 automatic grende launcher.

With bolter drill and bolter mastery in DW it might be different (esp. since Astartes bolters do more damae), but the issue here is that the multilaser is much better in OW in anti-infantry (and anti-armor for that matter) than the heavy bolter. There is literally nothing that the HB does better except larger chance of Righteous Fury and X crits instead of E.

And Righteous Fury is much less important in Only War anyway.

unless you use the rule for instant gibbing minion-class enemies

there you can really dish out with the high ROF and hgiher Fury chance of the heavy bolter, but again that suchs a very narrow and specific purpose that the multilaser is still the better choice

Might be fun to make a Regiment whose favored heavy weapon is the multi-laser, just to have the ammo for it be easier to find over the HBltr. As a more "typical" HW choice, I would imagine it is slightly easier to acquire and rearm on any battlefield, but possibly not my much.

well apart from the "throw into fire" or techpriest recharge they are both rare so there is not much difference

I always assumed that multilasers required cooling or power supplies that could only be carried on vehicles. It made sense as to why they only appeared on vehicles (and once a character in an inquisitor battle report.... though to be fair he was a half cyborg with tank treads......) because if that isn't the reason then its a bit mad as they have the inherent plus of all the setting's laser weapons of being rechargeable and thus having nigh infinite ammo......

Though saying that it could just be that the tech priest's of mars don't have a pattern for a man portable version so you just can't have them..........

It has always vaguely bugged me though as if bolt guns and bolt pistols are rare weapons that only a very very few humans and the space marines can have why are the heavy version so widely available....... are they just easier to make somehow?

That's possible. Melta weapons are relatively prevalent, until you dare to say "yes, i would like an inferno pistol, please?" Then you get weird looks, laughs, and stuff thrown at you, because they are somehow VERY uncommon, with only a couple in a whole sector, etc (in the hands of Magos and Inquisitors). Miniaturizing stuff is often hard, and the Tech Priests, for being the ones who know everything about technology actually know next to nothing, and invent practically nothing. Thus, working to make things smaller, more compact, and such is often not done, or maybe even taboo.

For the multi-laser, someone probably said it wasn't necessary, and that the MP lascannon fit the bill just fine. While in some ways they are not the same weapon, and an argument for a MP multi-laser, if there isn't one, could be made, the byzantine bureaucracy would probably just brush it off, and say what we have works.

like i said before the codex imperial guard has manportable multilasers listed as option for heavy wepaon teams and there are cadian minitures with those so there is a manportable pattern

codex imperial guard has manportable multilasers listed as option for heavy wepaon teams and there are cadian minitures with those so there is a manportable pattern

Manportable lascannons . There are no manportable multilasers anywhere in Codex: Imperial Guard or the model range.

The cadian miniatures kits make: Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, Autocannon, Mortar or Lascannon.

Perhaps its 'not portable' may well be the case for something like the 'Rapier Laser Destroyer' heavy weapons platform existing, which is as far as I remember is either a couple of Multilasers or Las-cannon (or heavy bolters) all bodged into a tracked vehicle with some fire-control.

codex imperial guard has manportable multilasers listed as option for heavy wepaon teams and there are cadian minitures with those so there is a manportable pattern

Manportable lascannons . There are no manportable multilasers anywhere in Codex: Imperial Guard or the model range.

The cadian miniatures kits make: Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, Autocannon, Mortar or Lascannon.

just looked it over and you are right

i guess i have to have a serious talk with the IG player in our WH40k round...

I can't actually find rules in the FFG games about this, but waaaay back during the heady days of WH40K 2nd edition, the MultiLaser was noted as a 'support weapon' instead of a 'heavy weapon', which meant that it could only be mounted on vehicles.

I figure, even with the scale of models being a bit off, the multi-laser turret on the Chimera is a bit bigger than the MP-lascannon, or the lascannons mounted on similar vehicles. I suppose the lascannon might be the upper end of "man-portable" by IG standards. Hell, Space Marines have the best of everything everywhere, and even their Devastators don't have multi-laser as an option; they choose to, or are forced to make due with lascannons, just like everyone else.

Well as I said the Sentry can get a multilaser as specialty equipment, so it must be man-portable to some extent.

Sentries often patrol a small area. It might mean the emplacement with a multi-laser, so he can defend the walls from Orks. Yes, the other bulky weapons he can get are man-portable, but most of them are all expecting that he stands there with them on a mount.