I understand that this is a game about synergy, and often the sum of the parts adds up more than the whole...

But, with that being said, what do you think are the best "value" ships in the game? I've given this a lot of thought, and have played a lot of X-wing (about 3-4 times a week for most of the year) and have reached my own conclusions....

Best VALUE Individual Ships Waves 1-2

1. Imp - Academy Pilot TIE Fighter

2. Reb - Rookie Pilot X-Wing

3. Imp - Bounty Hunter Firespray

I haven't played enough of it to know for sure yet, but Scimitar Squadron TIE Bomber seems like it might be creeping up the list as well.

And, once again, I fully acknowledge that synergy and/or having a particular matchup may trump any sense of "value" in this game, but this is still a topic that I think a lot about and is worth discussing and haven't seen a whole lot of forum space dedicated to.

As a corallary, LET'S LOBBY FFG TO LOWER THE POINT COST OF TIE ADVANCED PILOTS BY 1 PT!

Academy Pilot is very good, however the next two I am not sold on. My suggestion for top 3 would be:

Howlrunner

Academy Pilot

Any named YT-1300

Green Squad, definitely. Say what you will about the A-Wing but it's one of very few low rank pilots with access to Elite abilities, especially on the Rebel side.

I also cross-posted this and included a poll (go there and vote now!) at the BGG site...

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1038382/point-for-point-what-are-the-best-shipspilots

I also cross-posted this and included a poll (go there and vote now!) at the BGG site...

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1038382/point-for-point-what-are-the-best-shipspilots

I protest! Where are the HWK pilots?

I also cross-posted this and included a poll (go there and vote now!) at the BGG site...

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1038382/point-for-point-what-are-the-best-shipspilots

I protest! Where are the HWK pilots?

I doubt that anyone has played enough games with the wave 3 ships yet to give an actual experienced answer, and this would just turn the thread into one of the (many) speculation threads, which I wanted to avoid. I'll likely poll this again in a month or two with wave 3 added.

More academy pilots have killed things than any other ship except maybe for rookie pilots, but only because you can get two rookie pilots in a 4 x-wing list and only 1 wedge. That is just musing on my part though.

To be fair, more academy pilots have died than any other pilot as well!

To be fair, more academy pilots have died than any other pilot as well!

Well said.I played a list with Bounty Hunter, 3 Academy Pilots and "Night Beast" against Lando, "Dutch" and Biggs. The Academy Pilots kept getting killed off by "Dutch" and Lando before they had a shot. Perhaps it wouldn't have been so egregious if I had more TIEs flying around, but the low Pilot Skill can be a killer.

Along the lines of what was said by nimdabew, I am thinking that part of Wedge's "value" may be to act as a sort of Biggs to draw enemy fire. Who's going to shoot Rookies when you can kill the top ace? Rookies probably do better after Wedge has done some damage, and the ranks have been thinned.

But despite everything I've just said, I think you've nailed it in the original post. The cheapest pilot for any ship (except the YT-1300, of course) has the same stat line as the highly skilled pilots, so on their own they may have more value/cost. But since this is a squad game, you don't see squads with purely low-skill ships very often. Different pilots and upgrades work together in exciting ways that boost overall effectiveness. Isn't that why we don't see as many 8-TIE swarms?

Yep, the cheap pilots for sure. There aren't a ton of lists where there isn't some alternative, but I think the 1 point bump to get Obsidian squadron pilots can sometimes be clutch in murdering those rookie X-wings. Does anyone think that the Blue B-wings are going to start to replace the rookie X-wings? Or maybe the 4 Blue build?

Yep, the cheap pilots for sure. There aren't a ton of lists where there isn't some alternative, but I think the 1 point bump to get Obsidian squadron pilots can sometimes be clutch in murdering those rookie X-wings. Does anyone think that the Blue B-wings are going to start to replace the rookie X-wings? Or maybe the 4 Blue build?

I don't think that they can replace the X-Wings. Their Agility 1 is just preventing it. And for the 1 point more you can give an R2 to a Rookie, which is an awesome improvement. The B-Wing has Barrel roll and its 1 red turn going for it though.

I understand that this is a game about synergy, and often the sum of the parts adds up more than the whole...

But, with that being said, what do you think are the best "value" ships in the game? I've given this a lot of thought, and have played a lot of X-wing (about 3-4 times a week for most of the year) and have reached my own conclusions....

Best VALUE Individual Ships Waves 1-2

1. Imp - Academy Pilot TIE Fighter

2. Reb - Rookie Pilot X-Wing

3. Imp - Bounty Hunter Firespray

I haven't played enough of it to know for sure yet, but Scimitar Squadron TIE Bomber seems like it might be creeping up the list as well.

And, once again, I fully acknowledge that synergy and/or having a particular matchup may trump any sense of "value" in this game, but this is still a topic that I think a lot about and is worth discussing and haven't seen a whole lot of forum space dedicated to.

As a corallary, LET'S LOBBY FFG TO LOWER THE POINT COST OF TIE ADVANCED PILOTS BY 1 PT!

I think that your list is bang on. I just don't know whether the Bounty hunter is not 2. and the X-Wing 3. 33 Points is dirt cheap for a back arc and the evade option it has over the X-Wing.

The Academy Tie (and literally all tie fighters even the named ones) can just not be beaten cost/effect wise. I have always thought and still think it was just plain undercosted from the beginning. It's not it's firepower, but its its huge durability and manoeuvrability for the low cost. Swarms still being absolutely one of the top lists speaks for itself. Also i don't think FFG will ever be able to balance this. Thankfully, it's still beatable but nobody could have complained if every single from Academy to Howlrunner would have costed even 2 points more.

I can't really say if any of the named pilots would make the list, they pay a huge lot for their pilot skill and special abilities. A lot of them are not worth it and the cheapest pilots are often the best choice. Thankfully there are a few good lists where synergy makes up for the raw dice and hitpoint advantage the plain pilots give you.

I think you're undervaluing pilot skill - but I also believe that the game hasn't quite reached the point where the value of pilot skill is really well understood. Not that it's not understood from a mechanical perspective.

I'm not convinced that the Tie Advanced is overpriced either. We see this in comparison with the a-wing. Considering pilot skill value, the difference between a Tempest and a Prototype pilot which is 4 points, we see a 3 point value for 1 hull difference and boost vs barrel roll. The A-wing pulls a bit more ahead when you consider the Green Squad vs the Storm - which has the same point differential and an available elite medal. Otherwise, the A-wing is as overcosted as the tie-advanced

I think if there's any over costing, it may be in the ordinance, missiles and torpedoes cost quite a bit - it would be nice to see a cheaper option come along in the future.

The problem with comparing the TIE Advanced to the A-Wing is that the A-Wing is generally considered to be the OTHER most overcosted ship in the game. If TIE Advanced cost 2 less, and A-Wings 1 less, I think they would be spot on.

Alternately, as you noted we could just adjust the cost of expendable munitions down by 1 point each and fix TIE Advanced, A-Wings, and Y-Wings (turretless) all at once without having to make enormous changes to the basic balance structure.

The problem with comparing the TIE Advanced to the A-Wing is that the A-Wing is generally considered to be the OTHER most overcosted ship in the game. If TIE Advanced cost 2 less, and A-Wings 1 less, I think they would be spot on.

Alternately, as you noted we could just adjust the cost of expendable munitions down by 1 point each and fix TIE Advanced, A-Wings, and Y-Wings (turretless) all at once without having to make enormous changes to the basic balance structure.

You can't call the A-Wing over priced when you consider the performance of a Green Squadron with PtL. For one point more than a rookie, you gain the ability to target lock and focus in the same turn, which will net you more hits than a rookie x-wing with just target lock or focus. At the same time, the Green Squadron is more maneuverable (boost and dial) and it has better defenses (evade + focus).