So, I had a new one come up and I have not seen it discussed before, much less ruled on.

During set up, what PS does a ship with VI set up as? In our example, we had Black Squadron Pilots with VI. Do they set up before or after Biggs?

I have always just set them up at PS 6. But the TO pointed out that the rules imply they don't get VI until after set-up. The relevant section, on page 4:

5. Place Forces: Place each ship in the play area

in order of pilot skill (orange number), from lowest

to highest (i.e. the ship with the lowest pilot skill is

placed first; the ship with the highest pilot skill is

placed last). If multiple ships have the same pilot

skill value, the player with initiative places his ships

with that pilot skill first (see “Initiative” on page 16).

To place a ship, its owner lays the range ruler

straight out from his edge of the play area and

places the ship anywhere that is entirely within

the Range 1 section, facing any direction (see

setup diagram on page 5).

6. Prepare Gathered Cards: Each player takes

the cards matching his forces and places them

faceup outside the play area in view of all players.

I was pretty shocked that I had missed something like that. What do you guys think?

I guess it kind of depends on how you read the second part. You could just as easily argue that the fact they are 'prepared' means they already have an effect, and that you're simply revealing them the same way you might a maneuver dial.

I believe that the 6th step refers only to taking your already selected cards (Selected in the 2nd step) and putting them visible for everyone on the play area.

Actually, It is in the 2nd step where you build your squadron, using the 'squad building rules'.

The 6th step is not a 'gentlemen start your engines' step. You do not 'turn-on' your ships on the 6th step. Your ships, with their powers and abilities, are already well set on the 2nd step.

And I think if you pay for VI it makes sense you get all the benefits of it. It makes sense to me it would let them set up in their boosted pilot order.

Read the cards themselves. Vet instincts specifically gives them a +2 to pilot skill, not just +2 when they are face up on the side of the table. TO is wrong.

Read the cards themselves. Vet instincts specifically gives them a +2 to pilot skill, not just +2 when they are face up on the side of the table. TO is wrong.

I think the question is when any and all effects come into play. It doesn't matter what VI says, if NO ability is active until Step 6, it does nothing until Step 6.

That's not to say I agree with it. There's no specifically-defined point in the rules where abilities "turn on". The TO has chosen to make it Step 6, but that seems very arbitrary. Why not make it Step 4? Or 7?

I'm going to make a case here by doing something I never, EVER do - use the Slave I title card. This upgrade adds a new Upgrade icon to the ship it's on. If upgrade abilities don't "turn on" until Step 6 (or any Step past 2, for that matter) this this card can't work. "Okay, I'm done deploying, I'll gather my cards now... oh! Hey! I've got a new proton torpedo slot that I can't put anything in! Is it OK if I use it to make FWWEEEOOOO sounds at you, at least?"

Upgrade abilities are always active (pending conditions, of course) even during squad selection.

Thank you guys, that is what I intuitively thought would be the case. At the time, however, with the TO very politely pointing out the relevant rule section I had no desire to argue the point. The next time I see him I will have a clear rationale to present to him.

Are there any other upgrades you can think of that would be useless if they waited until after set-up to take effect? Slave-1 is a good one.

None come to mind. Shield Upgrade was close, but you add shield tokens after 6.

Doesn't mean there can't be ones in the future, or ship abilities that affect deployment. People have long theorized about a Y-wing only upgrade that would add the Crew slot, and I could easily see certain recon-themed ships (or pilots) allowing a larger deployment area or tweaking asteroid deployment rules, etc.

One other argument is that it specifically says "orange number" there in the rules. This is of course a by-product of the rules currently being more oriented towards "quick start" than a cohesive, well-organized rule set, but it is there...

Orange number? Huh? I'm lost.

A Y-Wing only crew slot would be AWESOME. Tailgunner, or something. Maybe let you fire the blaster turret without requiring a focus.

Agility is described as the "green number" too, does that mean that Wedge can't affect it?

Helpful text to help locate a particular stat does not make that stat immutable.

Orange number? Huh? I'm lost.

A Y-Wing only crew slot would be AWESOME. Tailgunner, or something. Maybe let you fire the blaster turret without requiring a focus.

That would take away a LOT of the grips about a Y-Wing that I currently have. The other one was to just have a crew slot for the cost of 1 point or so.

BTL-S3 (Title)

When attacking, you may change all (eyes) to (hits).

Cost: 3 points

I don't see an issue here. Since squad building is before deployment, any and all upgrades are assigned to your ships before the cards are set down. The PS is now the new PS upon deployment.