Righty ho!

This has been mentioned elsewhere, but I thought I could put it in here too, the proper forum and all.

The above mentioned starship attachment has a very open to interpretation text when it comes to the modification option for increasing the silhouette capacity. Also from Sam we got one explanation, and from Andy another, sort of - Andy didn't really say either or, but that we are free to do as we want as things are now, although we should expect errata. To this end I have a suggestion.

Sam's answer was basically: the modification option adds +1 to the silhouette capacity of the hangar bay/starship.

Lots of people think this is a bit off, particularly when it comes to silhouette 6+ starships. Now, of course you have silhouette 5 starships that in stock version have room for more than 1 starfighter of silhouette 3, or 3 fighters which could be the potential with all the modification options added (for a total silhouette capacity of 10 [5 base + 1x5]). To me this makes sense, this retrofit is not the same as redesigning and remaking the starship in question, its modifying and changing it, so to me the limitation makes sense, mostly.

For silhouette 6 and 7+ this attachment becomes less useful, or so its said by some. While the base capacity max is higher for these than the silhouette 5; 20 for s6 and 60 for s7, the modification option still only adds +1 capacity, which to me can make sense, as again this is a retrofit and chop job attachment, more than redesigning, reconfiguring the ships role, capabilities and so on. Still, it's odd that a silhouette 7 starship with this retrofit can have a maximum silhouette capacity of 65... that's just 1 more starfighter, and a small speeder... or walker perhaps?

Now, Andy said we were free to interpret the modification option as increasing the silhouette capacity by the base maximum - which is a frequent interpretation on the forums. This would mean that a silhouette 5 could gain a silhouette capacity of 30 (5 + 5x5), a s6 could get 120 (20 + 20x5), and the s7 could get 360 (60 + 60x5). While I'm sure one could make arguments for why this is ok, I find the idea of a Wayfare medium transport with 10 starfighter aboard laughable. While its no small ship, 10 B-wings in a Wayfarer... ?

So, here is my suggestion, a sort of compromise. The basis of which comes from the idea that this attachment is a chop job modification, not so much a complete and total redesign and re-purposing of the vessel in question, but rather an addition, a widening and increase in capabilities, with limitations in place. I am of the opinion that taking a transport/freighter and using this attachment cannot, should not, turn it into a large, efficient and capable carrier, since the ship was not originally designed for such a purpose. To do that should include a proper re-purposing, a shipyard and reconfiguration and re-construction of large and substantial parts of the ship to change it so fundamentally.

So, after that lengthy rant here it is. I suggest that the basic modification stays as is, and that the modification options change as follows:

• Change the increase in silhouette capacity to be based on silhouette of modified ship.
• To this end, and to keep a Wayfarer to hold 10 B-wings/X-wings/Y-wings aboard, I suggest that the modification option increases the silhouette capacity by 1/5th of the base silhouette capacity.
  • This means that the total silhouette capacity of a ship with the retrofitted hangar bay attachment can be doubled, which to me makes more sense.
  • So a silhouette 5 starship still gets +1 silhouette capacity per modification option.
  • A silhouette 6 gets +4 per modification option.
  • A silhouette 7+ gets +12 per modification option.

To me this is a good, or workable, compromise between the answer from Sam and the openness to interpretation that is in the book, and which Andy opened for (with a hint that the attachment would/could be appear in a future errata).

As I said in the other thread, I like this idea.

It cuts down on the "pocket fighter carrier" that could occur (such as a Wayfayer or Gozanti-class armed transport) being able to port almost a full squadron of Silhouette 3 fighters around (Base 5 carrying capacity, +5 for each mod, maximum of 30 Silhouette's worth of carrying capacity) but also keeps it viable for larger ships such as the Nebulon-B frigate could better pack in more fighters if the situation calls for it.

I also have some more thoughts on the matter (some directly stolen from HappyDaze's comment in another thread), but these are more narrative and based on common sense so it would be hard to make proper rules and limitation in this matter, but some guidelines might be in order:

• Is the hangar bay internal or external? Because this could affect the following:
  • How the retrofitted hangar bay affects encumbrance capacity. If at all.
  • How the retrofitted hangar bay affects passenger capacity. If at all.
  • Could it affect handling at all?
• What type of starfighter fits in what ship. It is obvious that Silhouette 5 ships comes in a variety of sizes, the Wayfarer is smaller than an Action VI and CR90 and DP20.
  • I'd say that perhaps Z95s and A-wings could fit in a Wayfarer, perhaps even X-wings, but what about a B-wings?
  • The attachment does spell out that not all starships can fit inside another, even if the silhouette could indicate that it would. While for S7s and perhaps S6s this isn't too much of a problem, I can foresee issues here. For instance, the Nebulon-B in Episode V does not seem large enough to fit the Falcon aboard, which by silhouette and attachment rules it should.

I know these issues are more up to GMs and groups, but I know its issues that I have trouble with at the moment.

When I think of the Hanger Bay mod, I think of the Darkstryder. Why in the wide world of sports they didn't use that ship for an example when they were designing those rules is a question I would like answered. Personally, I think the answer is making the Scale numbers larger. That way one could see that a Corvette is larger than a Wayfarer just by different scale numbers.

We also got to remember that game isn't set up to simulate an universe. It's suppose to help us narrate a story in that universe. So while it might look like a star ship to the viewer, it's really just a model attached to a broomstick being held by a guy behind a black curtain. While many of us love to tweak , upgrade, chop, and bastardize everything in our games, it's really not the game system for it. So until they deign a developer to design a book on ships and modifications they aren't going to invest a lot of time into making this stuff work like the EU has presented it to us.

When I think of the Hanger Bay mod, I think of the Darkstryder. Why in the wide world of sports they didn't use that ship for an example when they were designing those rules is a question I would like answered. Personally, I think the answer is making the Scale numbers larger. That way one could see that a Corvette is larger than a Wayfarer just by different scale numbers.

Do you mean the FarStar , the corvette that was introduced in the Darkstryder campaign? If so, that was a DRASTICALLY modified ship, and I don't think they've made rules capable of handling that JUST yet. . .

Of course, I wouldn't argue saying that Retrofitted Hangar Bay is a literal attachment to make that happen, though. . .

One corvette that really stands out to me with this is the Ession Strike . It had modifications done to it to house 12 X-Wings. 12! I don't have AoR, but if the Silhouette of an X-Wing is anything like a Z-95, that means a CR90 has been modified to carry a total Silhouette of 36.

As the rules stand with Retrofitted Hangar Bay, this isn't possible.

If the maximum capacity of a CR90 is Silhouette 10 (as per the suggestion by Jegergryte), you'll get 3 X-Wings, tops, within a CR90.

If the maximum is Silhouette 30 (as the other reading of the rule would allow; 5 start, +5 Silhouette x 5 mods == +25), then we get closer to that dozen, but we're still off.

Also, in response to the pocket carriers: I think common sense needs to win here. I know that there are ships that are smaller that can "house" and transport a fighter (Luke did this in the Thrawn campaign if memory serves correctly), but I wouldn't expect that same ship to carry an entire squadron without heavy modifications.

Additionally, I remember when Wayferers were first introduced in the EU, they were designed with a "hangar pod," which allowed the ship to act as a pocket carrier, comfortably holding 2 Z-95 Headhunters in the "hangar" portion with cargo in the rest. Now, if a player wanted to reduce the cargo capacity and make a full blown pocket carrier, more power to them, but the rules as they stand really aren't going to cut it.

Just my two cents.

I actually think the only Retrofitted Hanger Bay they truly looked at was the one on Christopher Wests Wayfarer map. They made sure that one could do that easily and left it at that. I have a feeling that PCs were not meant to get their hands on Corvettes and that modifications to them will be left to a GM. The thing is, as a GM, I like to make things work mechanically even if it's not for the players benefit.

I actually think the only Retrofitted Hanger Bay they truly looked at was the one on Christopher Wests Wayfarer map. They made sure that one could do that easily and left it at that. I have a feeling that PCs were not meant to get their hands on Corvettes and that modifications to them will be left to a GM. The thing is, as a GM, I like to make things work mechanically even if it's not for the players benefit.

This.

With all the rules lawyers I have dealt with, it's nice to have a solid foundation of rules to show "Yes, it's here, it's legal, and not just me being a jerk to ruin your plans."