Here is my example:

Runner has a Parasite with two virus counters installed on a six strenght Ice (archer for example) and a Datasucker with four virus counters so ha decides to run on the Archer. The corp then rezzes a Corporate Troubleshooter to raise the strenght of the ice.

How are the paid abilities on Datasucker and Corporate Troubleshooter then rseolved? Can you pay two virus counters from Datasucker, see what the corp does and then use the two remaining?

During a run, since it's the Runner's turn, during each paid ability window, the runner will resolve all of their paid abilities in the order they choose, then the Corp can do the same.

So, the Corp should rez the Troubleshooter as the Runner approaches the ice, and the Runner can use Datasucker tokens if they want to.

If the Corp waits until the ice is encountered, here's how it will go:
Runner encounters Archer.

Runner spends 4 Datasucker tokens to reduce Archer's strength to 0, Archer is trashed.

Corp's turn for paid abilities. Archer is gone, so Troubleshooter won't help it.

Makes total sense. If it however was a question of lowering the strenght enough to break it with an Ice breaker could the corp wait to see how many virus counters the runner spends and then just outbid him?

Not exactly. The Runner gets to use as many paid abilities as he wants before the Corp gets to use any. So the Runner can use his icebreakers during the same window that he uses the datasucker tokens. While it's true that the Corp could use Troubleshooter after that, the subroutines will already have been broken, so there would be no point.

So, when is the "window" to use Troubleshooter? Makes the card fairly tricky to play, it seems.

The timing window to prevent datasucker/parasite death with corporate troubleshooter sadly doesn't exist. However, the window to pump your ICE prior to Icebreakers interacting with your ICE does. You must rez the troubleshooter on approach, then wait for the encounter. On encounter is when datasucker and Troubleshooter may fire, but a datasucker will always fire first because it's the runner's turn. Assuming your ICE isn't trashed b a parasite however, you're now free to boost the ICE strength, potentially taking it back out of breaking range (if this was the reason it was being datasuckered) or just making it cost more to break than the runner bargained for.

Given the example in the OP, the runner may indeed spend some of his datasucker counters without killing the ICE, wait and see if the corp player wants to boost and then spend the rest of his counters. However should the ICE actually get trashed then Troubleshooter will not resolve and the Corp player spends nothing. And Troubleshooter remains in play.

I can actually envision a narrow scenario where this might occur. If we assume the runner previously encountered and didn't break Chum, they may decide it's better to lower the ICE strength and break instead of outright attempting to trash the ICE. In this scenario it would still be worth attempting to boost the ICE with troubleshooter if you could put it out of breaking range, as the runner can either:

a) not break it, leave it in play and take 3 net damage, keeping his remaining counters and forcing the Corp to spend the money,

or:

b) not break it, trash it instead, use his remaining counters and STILL take 3 net damage, letting the Corp keep the cash they would have spent (but you've now removed a piece of ICE from the server). An interesting conundrum.

If you look at the timing diagram in the rulebook, the Corp can use Troubleshooter in 2.3 or 3.1. (Or earlier than 2.3, I suppose.) The problem with 3.1 is that the Runner gets to use their paid abilities first, and since the Runner is now "encountering" the ice (the runner is "approaching" in 2.3), they can Datasucker, use icebreakers, whatever BEFORE the Corp can do anything.

The example in the OP is possible, but playing with fire: Here are the two ways it can go.

First way:

Runner encounters ice, spends some Datasucker tokens. Passes.

Corp uses Corporate Troubleshooter. Passes.
Runner spends some more Datasucker tokens, breaks some subroutines, whatever. Passes.
Corp can use more paid abilities if desired.

Second way:
Runner encounters ice, spends some Datasucker tokens. Passes.

Corp takes no action. Passes.

Unbroken subroutines fire! The Runner does NOT have the opportunity to use more paid abilities if the Corp does nothing.

From the Rulebook, page 21:

"After both players have had at least one opportunity to act and a

Interesting. Thanks for the updates and scenarios,

But surely you can use Troubleshooter if the runner intends to trash the Ice but doesn't actually have the Icebreaker to break it? If he/she for example runs with four virus counters on datasucker and two on parasite and the corp rasies the strenght of the Ice so it reamins untrashed then the runner would take the full blow of the Archer. Otherwise Troubleshooter seems pretty useless?

You're right, but in that scenario you need to use Troubleshooter during 2.3, because the Runner will trash it in 3.1 if you do not.

Troubleshooter is great, and definitely not useless, but if you want it to be effective, you need to use it before the Runner encounters the ice.

Good points Radi, I forgot that Troubleshooter could boost any ICE in the server, I misremembered it as being the ICE currently encountered. So yes, still useable if you boost immediately upon rezzing (or on approach, assuming the ICE is already rezzed - which if it was already hosting Parasite it must be), but before it's encountered.

As a point of order, I wonder now if I was correct in my above example. I can't seem to find anything that covers what happens if you decide to use an ability but then the target becomes unavailable. I assume it's still correct, because once the runner has resolved abilities, then the Corp player, when resolving his abilities, can choose not to resolve the card?

So to continue with the example:

>runner encounters ICE, chooses to use datasucker to lower strength to a number greater than 0

>corp chooses to use troubleshooter to boost target ICE

>runner chooses to spend more datasucker counters to lower strength to 0

>corp declines to act

Then the runner resolves all the datasucker counters, trashing the ICE. The corp player now chooses his order of resolution: can he choose simply not to resolve the ability, as the target no longer exists? Could he choose not to resolve it anyway? I would assume so for the former, but I'm no longer 100% sure. And I'm really unsure about the latter. The rules state you choose the order your own effects resolve in, but I'm not sure if you can choose not to resolve.

Edit: also, what if there are now NO eligible targets for the effect to resolve?

Okay. Just so I get this straight: there is a window where you can rezz and activate troubleshooter at a moment after the runners last chance to retreat but before he can trash it?

Yes, it's step 2.3, after they have decided to continue the run. It's the same step at which you would usually rez the next ICE, but if the ICE is already rezzed you still have the opportunity to rez and use Troubleshooter. Once the runner has actually Encountered the ICE (step 3.0), this window is lost.

Feesh, you seem to misunderstand how paid abilities work. If you choose to use an ability, it immediately resolves at that moment (unless interrupted by another card effect). You seem to think there's an opportunity for both players to choose abilities that passes back and forth, and then another window in which the chosen abilities resolve, which is not the case.

>runner encounters ICE, chooses to use datasucker to lower strength to a number greater than 0

>corp chooses to use troubleshooter to boost target ICE

>runner chooses to spend more datasucker counters to lower strength to 0

>corp declines to act

It's a nonsensical example -- if the runner uses a couple of datasucker counters to lower the strength to a number greater than 0 and then passes, the corp can just pass and force the runner to suffer the subroutines.

Feesh, you seem to misunderstand how paid abilities work. If you choose to use an ability, it immediately resolves at that moment (unless interrupted by another card effect). You seem to think there's an opportunity for both players to choose abilities that passes back and forth, and then another window in which the chosen abilities resolve, which is not the case.

Ah. I see. It would seem I misinterpreted this passage from the rulebook:

Whenever there is an opportunity to trigger paid abilities, rez cards and/or score agendas (usually at the beginning of a turn and/or after each action), the player who is currently taking his turn gets the first opportunity to act. He can trigger as many paid abilities, rez as many cards, and/or score as many agendas as he wishes in the order of his choosing. When he is finished, the other player gets the opportunity to act. When that player is finished, the first player gets the opportunity to act once again.

This, coupled with the section from the following page:

If players ever want to perform simultaneous events at the same time, the player whose turn it is resolves all of his effects first.

Led me to believe that players would both choose which abilities to resolve, then all active player abilities would resolve in order, then inactive players. I assume now then, that this second passage is simply referring to effects such as "When a run is successful" etc. rather than triggered abilities? But then surely, if the effects can be triggered at the same time (such as at a specific stage of a run) then this falls under Simultaneous Effects as per the definition on p.22?

In the case of the Corp player simply allowing subroutines to fire, somehow I had forgotten that Datasucking happens in the same window as Icebreaking. Not sure how that happened; I'll put that one down to a moment of lunacy on my part.

Haha. Gotta love the geeky-ness of this thread. I don't quite follow all the intricacies but then I've only had the game for about a week or so.

In my mind this is how the scenario plays out:

1. Runner Runs on rezzed Archer with said set-up. Since he's an anarch (probably) ha has icebreakers that cannot be raised in strenght by paying credits.

2. Corp rezzes Troubleshooter and pays whatever cost to increase the strenght to above what the anarch breaker can interact with.

3. Runner encounters Ice and cannot trash it or interact with it.

Corp trashes Datasucker and Parasite and laughs in runners face. Seem about right?

That sounds right to me, markus

I assume now then, that this second passage is simply referring to effects such as "When a run is successful" etc. rather than triggered abilities?

Bingo. Corp and Runner triggered abilities can never be triggered at the same time, because the player whose turn it is always has the opportunity to act first. This refers more to "when a run is successful" or "when the runner encounters a piece of ice" or similar conditional (and/or passive) effects.

Really good and helpful forum this. Just wish there were be more activity in the deck-building threads because I could really use some input on how to play any other Corp than NBN. NBN feels nasty and in your face while the other just seem kind of tame to me. Anyway, absolutely brilliant answers and so quick too!

I actually have one more question: Let's pose there was some sort of upgrade with the ability to prevent an ice protecting the server from being trashed this run. Could that ability then be put into play after the runner has encountered and lowered the strenght to zero?

If you wanted to prevent the ice from being trashed, it would have to be before the Runner lowered the strength to 0 in the first place (unless the upgrade said something like "you may rez this when a piece of ice would be trashed" or similar language).

Okay. Now I'm getting really hypothetical´.

If the asset or upgrade for example was advancable and already rezzed and read something like 2 credits, 1 advancement token - prevent a piece of ice from being trashed. And the card at the moment had no counters on it leaving the runner to think a prevention was impossible. Could I then move an adcvancement token from for example that NBN agenda, wich name escapes me at the moment, to prevent the trash after the runner spend their virus counters from Datasucker?

If the first player to act always have their effect immidiatly take place how can New Angeles City Hall prevent tags given during the Corps turn?

I'm sorry for either being thick or just pushing this to far =)

No, your questions are totally reasonable.

To answer your most recent question, we have to get into an exception to the timing rules that wasn't raised by your initial question.

All of the rules I told you were totally accurate, unless an effect uses the word "prevent" or "avoid". If you have a prevent/avoid effect, it can be triggered whenever the thing it is preventing or avoiding is about to happen, outside of the normal timing structures.

Thus, the hypothetical asset (call it Magic Prevent Asset) you mention COULD be used to prevent a piece of ice from being trashed by, say, Forged Activation orders. (It wouldn't work against Parasite because you'd prevent the trashing, but the strength is still 0, so Parasite would trash the ice again...)

However, you couldn't use Astroscript Pilot Program to add a counter to your Magic Prevent Asset, because Astroscript's effect isn't a prevent/avoid effect. Make sense?

New Angeles City Hall prevents tags precisely because it is an "avoid" effect. On the Corp side, check out Zaibatsu Loyalty for a similar example.

Makes total sense. I'm starting to get the finer points of the timing structures.

Arigato Sensei!