Is there any news about this weeks update. Wasn't it supposed to arrive yesterday?
At least last week they warned us...

Yeah - as much as I like the work they do, but contact to the community is far from being one of their key competences.

Can you blame them?

Can you blame them?

Yes, quite easily. Its pretty rude of them to promise these weekly updates and then completely ignore us.

I don't care if this beta takes until next year. I'd rather see it done right, and I've got OW until then.

But I'm getting pretty tired of this treatment. Seriously it takes like 30 seconds to log on and just say "Hey, sorry its gonna be late. We still care"

Exactly this. No one blames if it tkes longer, if it helps the result.

But be canceled for 2 of four updates, and now another delayed without any notice...not very nice.

I agree that the lack of any communication on this is pretty annoying. Going by what was stated on week 1, we should be at update 6 by now and instead are basically at update 2.5 (the second update addressed very few major concerns and was mostly just housekeeping). It would be a lot easier to not be annoyed by this if there was a little more communication (even just one way- e.g. "The update got delayed! See you next week!" Or "we are discussing whether to extend the beta and will announce it soon.") Indie game designers are incredibly open with their fans and they are often working almost by themselves on huge games. D&D has the lead designer using twitter and other routes to answer questions. Pathfinder has lots of interaction on their forums. Bad community or not, it's an industry standard at this point to openly communicate with the people buying your product. FFG's current policy is the equivalent of Palladium and RIFTS. RIFTS!

Yeah, I don't really understand this notion of keeping as far removed as possible from the consumers and fan base. It just doesn't make sense in this day and age.

Anyone know why they are like this? I've heard stuff like Games Workshop mandates not letting them say anything about the games. Or maybe just too busy.
I really want to love FFG. I've been a huge fan of everything they've put out so far, and they really were instrumental in making me like 40k, but this whole Beta debacle is turning me off of them.

This forum has some bad elements that it doesn't make sense for a company to engage. From the people who are vocally anti-change, those who post unreasonable screeds about how <rule> doesn't make sense and totally invalidates the fluff, and the people who can string together a coherent sentence, it makes total sense that they've taken a hands-off approach to this. That's what I meant by "can you blame them?"

That said, there should clear communication regarding the scheduling of the beta they're running.

Its very easy to pick and choose who you talk to. Many companies aren't afraid of getting their hands dirty and descending into the fandom, why should they be? Offering a beta like this almost means they shouldn't be allowed to not get involved.
They all seem like cool people who want what we want. Why would they be frightened off by a very small group of dicks?
And I've really never seen anything on this forum as bad as what you are saying. Outright hostility is extremely rare between the plethora of supporters, and people with suggestions and disappointment who are totally rational. I'm disappointed in this game. I'm allowed to be here and voice my opinions, and I can say if I think something does violate fluff, because that should be a real concern. It should feel like 40k, because it is 40k.

Just imagine how much better we'd all feel if someone suggested something, and then a developer popped into the thread, and said "Wow, thats a good idea" or "Nah, we aren't doing it that way because _____".
People would feel way better and more confident that their opinions actually mattered.

Then again, I don't really want to be hating on FFG. They must have a reason, so I'll give them a while longer, but honestly the trust is just slipping.

Some of those complaints are extremely well founded however.

I've seen far worse ['Next' for example] than the stuff here; conversations and suggestions have for the most part been discussed quite reasonably.

Hopefully "This bounces off skin", "the average human apparently can't lift or drag 40 pounds", "A long-las is less accurate than a lasgun because of the current AP system", "four hits of 1 damage with a pistol are worse than two hits with a meltagun because of the current wound system" andd "striking a weapon and damaging it causes it to grow to twice its size and weight, and double its ammo capacity" are not counted as one of the unreasonable fluff-invalidating problems, though. Things would be rather hopeless if they were.

This forum has some bad elements that it doesn't make sense for a company to engage. From the people who are vocally anti-change, those who post unreasonable screeds about how <rule> doesn't make sense and totally invalidates the fluff, and the people who can string together a coherent sentence, it makes total sense that they've taken a hands-off approach to this. That's what I meant by "can you blame them?"

That said, there should clear communication regarding the scheduling of the beta they're running.

This forum is actually pretty well mannered compared to most. Have you seen the forums for Diablo 3? There is ridiculousness and hostility at every turn yet the Diablo 3 developers still communicate with the fans. They just answer select questions is all.

I will admit to not having ventured far into video game forums, but from what I have seen they can be absolutely horrible.

It's not really fair to compare FFG to Blizzard, though. Blizzard is a massive company in comparison.

Probably around 100% of the ugly would melt away if there was frequent and honest communication.

Most people who've managed to survive standing behind the counter (in any sense) for more than a week, will tell you the same thing: listen to the concerns of your customers and address those concerns honestly and respectfully. If you do that, even the angry and impossible ex-customers start being nice to you and saying nice things about you (and while that's not as valuable as people who buy stuff, positive word of mouth even if it's just about you as a company, does have tangible value).

I suggest it would be an extremely good idea for FFG to invite on a community manager with a communication line to the dev team of each RPG. Someone who can compile the stuff that crops up on the forums, present it to the devs in a digestible format (and paraphrased into nice-cheery-polite-speek) once or twice a week, and get back here with the team's responses (paraphrased into nice-cheery-polite-speek).

The nice-cheery-polite thing really-really isn't a joke. Addressing people as if you think they're kind of great and someone you'd love to be friends with, is very much possible even if you're criticising or disappointing them. And it's the difference between your audience accepting what you communicate without ill will or resentment, and them hating your guts.

I totally understand if the DH2b dev team doesn't feel in the mood to chat with us lot, or even read the forums at all. Honestly, it's probably best for their sanity that they don't. Because every ranty post here is just as much a slap in the face to them, as the total disregard they're showing us is to us.

Like I said though, that I totally understand it doesn't mean I don't think it is deeply foolish. I bet there's plenty of service minded nerds who'd be happy to play friendly intermediary between forums and dev teams. Probably even a few who'd do it for free (not me though, I have neither time nor patience).

You've put it better then I ever could Simsum.

I'm sorry, but you don't hold a online public beta test of something if you aren't prepared to accept harsh criticism.There will always be people who dislike change, who have strong opinion about rules or background, or who are just plain trolls who get off on perceived power they get by being jerks. If you're not prepared to face that, to ignore what needs to be ignored and to answer what needs to be answers, you shouldn't hold something up to public scrutiny like this.

To say FFG would be here if we all be nicer about their game misses the entire point of this process. The goal of the public beta test is to point out flaws, find things people don't like and fix rules that just don't work or don't make sense.

Also, cps. Nothing against you, and not even really on topic, but I'm a very visual person, and your smug ass little avatar makes me mad, and I'm predisposed to read all your posts the wrong way.
**** thats an annoying goblin.

Also, cps. Nothing against you, and not even really on topic, but I'm a very visual person, and your smug ass little avatar makes me mad, and I'm predisposed to read all your posts the wrong way.

**** thats an annoying goblin.

Same with me- Xenos scum.

It's from Aye, Dark Overlord!, which is a great game if you can find it. It was out of print for a while.

It is a goblin who smiles like he wants to be punched into the face with a powerfist of doom.

Even if the game might be great - it is a bad avatar choice for a forum of His righteous acolytes

I rather think it's the perfect avatar for exactly the reasons Felenis pointed out.

Trolls remain trolls - even in a goblins disguise.

No, but seriously. Where is the update.

Also, cps. Nothing against you, and not even really on topic, but I'm a very visual person, and your smug ass little avatar makes me mad, and I'm predisposed to read all your posts the wrong way.

**** thats an annoying goblin.

Same with me- Xenos scum.

I know my avatar is a Lord of Change, but when your right you are in fact right. That goblin avatar has such a punchable face.

More serious topic. This is a beta so it has get put through its paces and the updates are the only way to see if the process is working. Without updates we don't know what we are getting. So getting those updates is very important if you ask me. They should had warn us they are going to miss this week.

More serious topic. This is a beta so it has get put through its paces and the updates are the only way to see if the process is working. Without updates we don't know what we are getting. So getting those updates is very important if you ask me. They should had warn us they are going to miss this week.

I suppose we could always be optimistic and say that they are working so hard on a massive update to deal with the major issues raised to date and have therefore been slightly delayed.

Of course, if that were the case, it would take them about 2 minutes to pop over here and *say* that.

I suppose we could always be optimistic and say that they are working so hard on a massive update to deal with the major issues raised to date and have therefore been slightly delayed.

Of course, if that were the case, it would take them about 2 minutes to pop over here and *say* that.

That is what I am saying. They could tell us what they are doing. A little heads up would be nice.