And dont forget the whales !

Really - I just couldnt stop myself from laughing out loudly.

I mean - for real.

Really.

This is just.

Oh man!

That just made my day.

Omg- guys - I am still laughing.

And I cant get myself back together.

Really - CPS, thank you so much, for giving me this joy at a grey day like this.

Please do yourself a favour - tell it was a joke, and save at least some of your face.

Can we please just get back on topic? This - all of this - is ridiculous.

How about some suggestions on how to re-balance the weapons, if we want all Las weapons to be Reliable? Would you remove Reliable from some of the SP weapons? Would you give them something else instead?

Frankly, I don't think any of the SP weapon need it. They get cool ammo. Done, easy.

Las should all be reliable, and have larger charges.
Weapons don't need to be an EXACT even match all the time. Players gravitate towards better, but if things are really similar in power level, its easy to justify taking the worst one, if you like it more.

On the note of special ammo, why on earth is it for both SP and bolters?

That just smacks of lazy. There are plenty of custom boltershells in regular fluff, and FFG's personal fluff. Why do we now have Dumdum bolters?

(Also, where the hell is my overcharge las pack?)

I was quite ok of having lasers reliable in contrast to sp weapons.

My oppinion was, that the lack of mechanical components made a jam less likely.

But I am quite open to other interpretations - they just should be reasoned with sense and be used in the same way through the different books.

As overcharge became a weapon trait - maybe they skipped the overcharge pack ?

I am being completely serious. Feminists are a real thing and maybe you should actually read some of the points they make.

I just googled "**** in geek culture" at grabbed one of the first results. Plenty has been written about the topic, so if that wiki I found in two seconds of searching doesn't do it for you there are plenty of scholarly articles on the topic (though perhaps not specifically about geek culture). To Felenis specifically: If you read closely I did not mention gender, at all, but you thoughtlessly trotted out the whole "men can be raped" thing like it meant something. Go and read this: http://amplifyyourvoice.org/u/carlyking96/2013/06/25/men-get-raped-too. There are plenty of article about this tired phrase, this one just happened to come up first.

For the record, I have no idea who Matt Ward is, I love burgers, and I think that anyone who uses the word '****' lightly is ignorant at best and a terrible human being at worst.

Also the idea that las weapons must be Reliable in DH2 because someone wrote once that las weapons don't jam ever is a dumb idea.

I heard there are many groups of fluff who try to get over it in regular meetings where they talk about the pain they suffered, when their whole existance suddenly was changed.

You do know that the W in WH40k actually does mean "war" and not "wimp", right ? Maybe you went into the wrong forum ?

Seriously - this topic has to end. Now.

Hey, nice **** joke, bro.

Your opinions are bad and you should feel bad.

Look, I get that this is an important issue to you, but it really doesn't need to be here, on this forum.
Getting raped is horrible. I can't even imagine what it must be like.
But to be honest, I don't really care, or even subscribe to this **** culture thing. I don't care. I'm here to enjoy my rpgs.
And if that makes me an ignorant person, whatever. There are so **** many good and bad causes in this world, you can only hold so many before you break apart. I'm perfectly comfortable at the level of good human being I'm at.
And you may not have mentioned gender, but you sure brought up the feminism part of it by posting that article. And your link doesn't work for me, so I can't really tell what point you want to make.

Anyways, back to 40k.

Actually, it was a fluff joke - and if you just had some more knowledge about fluff and how it has been altered in the past - maybe you would just understand what it is about instead of just trying to talk people bad.

Just the thought about non-speaking necrons coming together to talk is funny. It is ironic - and thereby funny.

And now lets end this endless dispute and return to the topic.

I think relaibility can be interpreted widely - therefore, as i said, I prefer consistency in its use.

Take off the period in the URL - these forums are including it incorrectly.

I think reliable is almost a must have for Las weapons. It is a well established fact that their reliability and ease of use is exactly WHY they are so widespread. The guard uses them because even a complete dullard farm boy from Kansas IV can pick it up and use it no problem. The quality is pretty much made for them.

Good point about overcharge. I suppose it does replace the Overcharge pack. Less bang, but more shots.

This article is hypocritical incorrect ****. Please read what you post.

Anyways. This topic is over for me at least.

Yes, I also thought it was the guards choice as you can use it well in a lot of environments.

Guys, just take the hint that you used a stupid phrase and got called out on it. I've seen two of you getting up in arms about at being personal attacks toward you on this board, but being asked to not make a dumb joke about a sensitive subject is worth ridiculing? Just grow up, shrug, say "my bad" and move on. Its not a personal affront to you and men everywhere when someone says youre being offensive. If Im talking too loudly and dont notice it I dont make fun of someone for pointing it out. Be thankful that people think youre worth the time to correct. You don't have to bring your personal politics into a conversation asking for some common decency.

As for lasguns, I tend to agree that they should be made reliable, AND balanced in another way, such as reducing damage. I'd prefer that the mechanics reflect the fluff as much as possible, and do so in a balanced way. People are just arguing this for the sake of arguing, I think. I don't think making all of the las weapons reliable is really a huge unbalancing factor. What does reliable do? It ensures that you don't have to reload after making a 1/20 shot that will still miss, regardless. It's not adding damage. It's not increasing lethality directly. It's a mostly fluff power to begin with, so just let lasguns have it.

I am being completely serious. Feminists are a real thing and maybe you should actually read some of the points they make.

Unfortunately. And unfortunately, I do read the points they make. They're usually not very good, but I kinda have to read them anyway, just so I can criticize them properly.

I just googled "**** in geek culture" at grabbed one of the first results. Plenty has been written about the topic, so if that wiki I found in two seconds of searching doesn't do it for you there are plenty of scholarly articles on the topic (though perhaps not specifically about geek culture). To Felenis specifically: If you read closely I did not mention gender, at all, but you thoughtlessly trotted out the whole "men can be raped" thing like it meant something. Go and read this: http://amplifyyourvoice.org/u/carlyking96/2013/06/25/men-get-raped-too. There are plenty of article about this tired phrase, this one just happened to come up first.

For the record, I have no idea who Matt Ward is , I love burgers, and I think that anyone who uses the word '****' lightly is ignorant at best and a terrible human being at worst.

Also the idea that las weapons must be Reliable in DH2 because someone wrote once that las weapons don't jam ever is a dumb idea.

Honestly, that alone should bar you from participating in any discussion regarding fluff or it's impact on rules in any serious capacity.

And saying that "someone wrote once" is ridiculous. It's not just written. It's basically a trope. Saying that Las-weapons aren't reliable is like saying that Khorne is the Goddess of Love.

I was quite ok of having lasers reliable in contrast to sp weapons.

My oppinion was, that the lack of mechanical components made a jam less likely.

But I am quite open to other interpretations - they just should be reasoned with sense and be used in the same way through the different books.

As overcharge became a weapon trait - maybe they skipped the overcharge pack ?

I think Overcharge Las Packs were made into an upgrade in Only War, which makes a lot more sense to me, actually, seeing as how Las is supposed to primarily use only one kind of clip(s) of a universal standard. Only thing I disagree with for that interpretation is that obviously, any Overcharge pack should also have an on/off-switch. But that's just me, I guess.

Frankly, I don't think any of the SP weapon need it. They get cool ammo. Done, easy.

Las should all be reliable, and have larger charges.

Weapons don't need to be an EXACT even match all the time. Players gravitate towards better, but if things are really similar in power level, its easy to justify taking the worst one, if you like it more.

On the note of special ammo, why on earth is it for both SP and bolters?

That just smacks of lazy. There are plenty of custom boltershells in regular fluff, and FFG's personal fluff. Why do we now have Dumdum bolters?

(Also, where the hell is my overcharge las pack?)

I.. have no idea. SP and Bolters doesn't even share anything remotely similar. It's different mechanics, different clips, different.. there's literally nothing about SP and Bolters that are the same, except that they fire hard and/or explosive stuff at relatively high velocities.

Dumdum Bolters is.. a hilarious concept. Retarded, but hilarious.

Dude, please don't call things retarded, either. Here is a handy list of better ways to phrase your thoughts on dumdum bolters.

Ridiculous

Head-slappingly stupid

Foolish

Terrible

A slap in the face of all the emperor himself

Mandates inquisitorial inspection and execution

Bad

So many funny ways to say it!

I am being completely serious. Feminists are a real thing and maybe you should actually read some of the points they make.

Unfortunately. And unfortunately, I do read the points they make. They're usually not very good, but I kinda have to read them anyway, just so I can criticize them properly.

I just googled "**** in geek culture" at grabbed one of the first results. Plenty has been written about the topic, so if that wiki I found in two seconds of searching doesn't do it for you there are plenty of scholarly articles on the topic (though perhaps not specifically about geek culture). To Felenis specifically: If you read closely I did not mention gender, at all, but you thoughtlessly trotted out the whole "men can be raped" thing like it meant something. Go and read this: http://amplifyyourvoice.org/u/carlyking96/2013/06/25/men-get-raped-too. There are plenty of article about this tired phrase, this one just happened to come up first.

For the record, I have no idea who Matt Ward is , I love burgers, and I think that anyone who uses the word '****' lightly is ignorant at best and a terrible human being at worst.

Also the idea that las weapons must be Reliable in DH2 because someone wrote once that las weapons don't jam ever is a dumb idea.

Honestly, that alone should bar you from participating in any discussion regarding fluff or it's impact on rules in any serious capacity.

And saying that "someone wrote once" is ridiculous. It's not just written. It's basically a trope. Saying that Las-weapons aren't reliable is like saying that Khorne is the Goddess of Love.

I would honestly love to see your critiques of feminist articles. I mean this in a seriousness. If you have a blog link or whatever, please PM it to me.

To your second point: Some people care more about DH2 being a mechanically solid game than they care about DH2 having fidelity to whatever lore came before it. That doesn't make their opinions invalid.

That said, Nimsim's suggestion of Reliable, lower damaged las weaponry sounds like it might work. I'd like for FFG to at least investigate that.

Some of you really do make it hard for me to stay on topic - so many reasosn to make fun of you, but so less time...

Lasguns are quite ok now in my oppinion.

Just give them reliable back for the fluffs sake.

And give bolters their own special ammunition.

This off subject only gives FFG more reasons to not talk to us....

Dude, please don't call things retarded, either. Here is a handy list of better ways to phrase your thoughts on dumdum bolters.

Ridiculous

Head-slappingly stupid

Foolish

Terrible

A slap in the face of all the emperor himself

Mandates inquisitorial inspection and execution

Bad

So many funny ways to say it!

Oh, yeah. Or:

Rapetastic

Rapelicious

Retardotronic

Mentally goddamned challengedet

Nobel Peace Prize-worthy

You're right! There's an endless amount of possibilities!

Now can we please get back to the subject?

I would honestly love to see your critiques of feminist articles. I mean this in a seriousness. If you have a blog link or whatever, please PM it to me.

To your second point: Some people care more about DH2 being a mechanically solid game than they care about DH2 having fidelity to whatever lore came before it. That doesn't make their opinions invalid.

That said, Nimsim's suggestion of Reliable, lower damaged las weaponry sounds like it might work. I'd like for FFG to at least investigate that.

Like I said, Las-weapons being reliable in the extreme isn't just some minor fluff point, and it's not something that's just a parenthesis in the larger scope of the setting. It's an extremely well-established piece of lore. It's *the* reason lasguns are *the* single most used weapon throughout the whole imperial military.

Making lasguns do less damage is fine, because the amount of damage they do is open for interpretation. It's ambigious. It's debatable. It's one of those things that in one book can blow the arm of a person in a single shot, while in another scenario it's noted that they're just pelting the hell out of something and it just keeps bouncing off. There's a reason the Lasguns are called Flashlights.

Not to be confused with fleshlights.

But whether they are reliable or not.. no, not really debatable, unless they are some kind of really, really, really terrible pattern that I've never heard of, or if they're all automatically of poor-craftsmanship while those represented in the core rulebook as "poor craftsmanship" are.. I don't know.. Ork-made or something.

It's great that you've decided to be as offensive as possible, but it's a shame you won't show us (or just me) what you really think on the matter. If I understand that you do critique feminism professionally I can definitely see why you wouldn't want your real name tied to the reprehensible things you've posted here.

Dude, please don't call things retarded, either. Here is a handy list of better ways to phrase your thoughts on dumdum bolters.

Ridiculous
Head-slappingly stupid
Foolish
Terrible
A slap in the face of all the emperor himself
Mandates inquisitorial inspection and execution
Bad

So many funny ways to say it!

Oh, yeah. Or:

Rapetastic
Rapelicious
Retardotronic
Mentally goddamned challengedet
Nobel Peace Prize-worthy

You're right! There's an endless amount of possibilities!

Now can we please get back to the subject?

I would honestly love to see your critiques of feminist articles. I mean this in a seriousness. If you have a blog link or whatever, please PM it to me.

Hah, no. I luckily don't have to do it professionally. Much.

To your second point: Some people care more about DH2 being a mechanically solid game than they care about DH2 having fidelity to whatever lore came before it. That doesn't make their opinions invalid.

That said, Nimsim's suggestion of Reliable, lower damaged las weaponry sounds like it might work. I'd like for FFG to at least investigate that.

It's true what you say, but the game exists to mechanically represent the world in which is it set.

This one sentence I think illustrates the fundamental root of our disagreement on a lot of topics. In my view, the mechanics of a game exist to establish the framework used to play it. Games are built to be played, not to model some fantasy reality, and because of that, rules that make play fair, balanced, and fun should take precedence over minutiae of their setting.

To each their own, so don't pretend that your approach is the One True Way and that people who disagree are incorrect.

guys, can we please put the ****/feminist argument away and talk about the fluff/balance thing. If you must get the last word in use the PM system.

NO GUYS ITS IMPORTANT I TALK ABOUT **** CONSTANTLY.

High quality forum, you certainly changed my mind!

EDIT: Fgdsfg I was talking about you, when someone asks you not to use the word **** you stop using the word ****. You're a disturbed individual, please dont like my posts that are actively mocking you.