Hi there, I have a question about the power of ICE and ICEBREAKERS and interacting with ICE.

So far as far as I understand it :

1) Approaching an Ice - Runner can decide to Jack out ( if not 1st pieces of Ice), if not , Corporation can rezz ice

2) Encountering an Ice - if Ice is rezzed, all non-subroutine text goes off first


3) Interaction with Ice - If POWER if Icebreaker is equal or higher than the Ice, this allows for INTERACTION with the Ice and allows for the runner to break sub-routines


My Question is the following :

- What happens if an Ice DOESN"T have - End Turn subroutine and has POWER HIGHER than the Icebreaker? Do the Runner still PASS the Ice , of course taking full harm from the subroutines ? Or he "bounces back " from the Ice , ending his run and receiving all the subroutines ?



Because so far, after reading all the RULES in the book, and forums, I found only that the Runner needs a power equal or higher than the wall so he can INTERACT with the ice and break subroutines. I never found something that says, that he CAN"T PASS an Ice, if his Icebreaker power is lower than the Ice's strength

Thanks in advance

Strength of icebreakers only matters if the runner is going to use those icebreakers to do something to the ice. (Usually, break subroutines.)

If the runner doesn't break subroutines (because the icebreaker isn't strong enough, the runner can't pay for the icebreaker, the runner chooses not to pay for the icebreaker, the runner doesn't HAVE an icebreaker), then the subroutines will affect the runner.

If none of the subroutines End the Run, then the runner continues on to the next ice.

The reason you never found anything that says "the runner can't pass ice if the icebreaker isn't strong enough" is because that is NOT a rule.

You're correct, and this is something that comes up with new players a lot. If the ICE doe not state 'End the Run' anywhere on it, then the ICE has NO ability to end the run. The runner is free to continue the run after suffering the effects of any unbroken subroutines.

ICE Strength exists primarily as a measure to determine if the runner's programs can break the subroutines or not (although it sometimes has other interactions, such as with Parasite).

edit: Aaaand ninja'd by Radiskull

Thanks a lot guys

I guess it's just a stereotype inherited from other games.


I'm totally in love with the game! The setting, the a-symmetric gameplay, the art, card balance and everything else! I picked up Jinteki and Anarch, because they seemed mostly suited for my taste and are also the most underplayed in my local store.

I can't describe how happy I was to see that I can make my Jinteki dream deck only with the Core Set + Future Proof + the one that contains Fetal A.I. . Never going back to MTG again lol


EDIT: Sorry guys, I have 1 more mini question ^^

If let's say I play an ASSET, PAD campaign ( or Adonis ), with my 1st click, can I rezz it right after that paying cost? Rezzing an Asset doesn't require a click, so I still have 2 clicks left from my first turn?

That's right - rezzing doesn't require a click. (I would ordinarily wait to rez assets like that until right at the beginning of your turn - that way you still get the benefit, but the Runner has to decide whether it's safe to run on it)

Yes, thank you.

I would ordinarily do that as well, but one of my friends who I was showcasing the game to, asked me that and I didn't know how to answer. Some nagging feeling, from other games, of "summoning sickness" clinched me by the throat.

2) Encountering an Ice - if Ice is rezzed, all non-subroutine text goes off first

Minor quibble: Some ICE have "When Encoutered" text and others have paid abilities. The "When Encoutered" text on Data Raven fires when the Runner Encounters it, but the Paid Ability doesn't. The rest is spot on.

2) Encountering an Ice - if Ice is rezzed, all non-subroutine text goes off first

Minor quibble: Some ICE have "When Encoutered" text and others have paid abilities. The "When Encoutered" text on Data Raven fires when the Runner Encounters it, but the Paid Ability doesn't. The rest is spot on.

Pretty sure that's what they meant, but good catch.

Yeah, thanks for the awesome add-up guys

I have 3 more questions, about which I don't wanna create a new topic, to avoid filling up the forum, and I hope u can help me out too

1) Chum + jack-out :

So this one is a heated one. What happens if the runner jacks out after encountering and passing chum ( without breaking the subroutine ) and then he jacks-out?

If we have to be literal, he DID NOT break the all the subroutines on the next pieces of Ice, so he gets the 3 net damage although he jacked out?


2) Is it a possible to pump one ice-breaker with another?

I had a situation playing yesterday, where I had a Tollbooth on and my friend ran me with Yog.0 . He has power of 3, where as Tollbooth has 5. So he asked me if he could "pump up" Yogg.0 with Corroder. My immediate answer was no, but the ruling says that u can use ANY number of programs in a run and the text on the card says " +1 str" , not " +1 str on corroder" .

Thankfully he had data sucker counters and lowered my Tollbooth power with them, but this question totally had me lost.

3) This one is an easy one. Let's say my friend has received 1 brain damage. That limits his maximum had to 4. But that doesn't mean "at all times " right? Hence if he has some card draw abilities and he goes up to let's say 6 cards during the action phase, he can keep those 6 until discard phase comes and he has to get rid of 2, right?


Thanks in advance guys, but those questions really puzzle me up

1) You never encountered the next piece of ice. Chum deals damage if you don't break the subroutines "on the next ice encountered". No damage.

2) No. "+1 strength" means "give this icebreaker +1 strength".

3) Correct. You discard down to your hand limit at the end of your turn, not at all times.

Radiskull is, as usual, prompt and right on all counts here

Just for a bit of added info, the reason you may use any/all Icebreakers is so that a) you don't have to declare a single breaker for a run (as you would when attacking with a creature in Magic, for example) and b) because some programs synergise.

In the example you gave, if your opponent was also running Wyrm, he could pump Wyrm to 5 (allowing it to interact with Tollbooth), the reduce Tollbooth to Strength 3 (which it could not have done before increasing it's own Strength), before finally breaking it with Yog.0. This allows you to break more cheaply than using Wyrm alone (and allows you to break at all, compared to using Yog.0 by itself). Datasucker is (often) more efficient than Wyrm however, hence why it sees so much more play.

Yeah, it popped up in my mind after I wrote it .. Considering his current icebreakers at the time, would a correct play also be :

1) he pumps Corroder to 5 so he can interact with tollbooth
2) use Yog.0 to break the subroutine

I mean, it would be possible to match the strength of the ICE with any ice-breaker regardless of type? As in the example above, match strength with Corroder, despite being a fracturer and tollbooth being a code-gate , and THEN break the Code Gate subroutine with Yog.0 .

Is that a legal move?


Also about the clarification of Chum. Does that mean that ANY next piece of ICE he encounters will receive the Chum subroutine? Like if he does with his next click a run on another server, the ICE guarding that server will be "Buffed" with the Chum? Since it's the " next piece of ice he encounters" ?

Thank u for the replies as usual

Firstly, no. The Icebreaker doing the breaking must match the ICE strength. It doesn't matter how strong your corroder is, it can't break Code Gates, and Yog.0 can't interact with Tollbooth until Yog.0 and Tollbooth have matched strength (or Yog.0 is higher).

Secondly, read Chum in full. It specifically states 'The next piece of ICE the runner encounters this run '. So no, next click the Chum effect is gone.

interestingly though, Chum doesn't add an extra subroutine to the next ICE (as opposed to say, Sensei). Chum instead imposes a condition onto the next piece of ICE encounters stating '+2 strength and if the runner leaves any subroutines unbroken, do 3 net damage'.

I realise that wasn't the nature of the question, but it did come up on another thread, as Sensei (another Jinteki ICE) actually adds more subroutines to following ICE, and these can be broken normally. Chum's effect, if left unbroken, WILL happen so long as you continue the run and encounter more ICE (so the ICE WILL get buffed, and if you don't break all routines it WILL do damage to you).

Hope that helps.

Yeah, it popped up in my mind after I wrote it .. Considering his current icebreakers at the time, would a correct play also be :

1) he pumps Corroder to 5 so he can interact with tollbooth

2) use Yog.0 to break the subroutine

I mean, it would be possible to match the strength of the ICE with any ice-breaker regardless of type? As in the example above, match strength with Corroder, despite being a fracturer and tollbooth being a code-gate , and THEN break the Code Gate subroutine with Yog.0 .

Is that a legal move?

Also about the clarification of Chum. Does that mean that ANY next piece of ICE he encounters will receive the Chum subroutine? Like if he does with his next click a run on another server, the ICE guarding that server will be "Buffed" with the Chum? Since it's the " next piece of ice he encounters" ?

Thank u for the replies as usual

From the rulebook:

"An icebreaker can only interact with ice that has equal or lower strength than the icebreaker."

So to answer your question no you still can't use yog.0 to break the tollbooth because there is still no way that yog.0 can interact with tollbooth (unless you lower the strength of tollbooth)

Chum says :"The next piece of ice the Runner encounters during this run has +2 strength." So again if the runner jacks out before encountering any more ice during the run the run is finished and chum is done.

Helps me tons, thank u mate

As far as chum, I didn't have the card text in front of me, so I didn't notice the " until the end of run" part I guess that answers my question lol

This means that Yog.0 on his own can't take care of tollbooth hoohoho , happy times

Still it was a legal move from him to use the data sucker counters

Hello good peeps, I have one more question which I don't want to create an entire new topic about.

It's about the Djinn =) Is it possible to host up in it's memory already non-icebreaker programs? Or do I have to first play the Djinn and then host in his memory slot?

Here is an example: If I've played Magnum Opus turn 1 and then turn 3 or 4 I play Djinn, can i Host the Magnum Opus in the Djinn, so he doesn't count against my total memory limit? Or it's a MUST to play the Djinn first if I want to put Magnum Opus "on" him?

I will be happy if u can quote a rule on this, because the text on the card doesn't say anything about " after"

Thanks

You should have created a new topic. If someone comes along with a Djinn question, they'll never think to look for the answer in this thread.

That being said, you need to have Djinn installed before it can start hosting programs. You can't move currently installed programs to Djinn.

I'd check the FAQ regarding rules on hosting - I think (but am not sure) that you'll find what you need there.

because the text on the card doesn't say anything about " after"

And it doesn't really need to. What it's "missing" is an ability to move already installed programs onto Djinn -- in the absence of such an ability, only a newly installed card can be hosted on Djinn.

I will be happy if u can quote a rule on this

Relevant rules text can be found quite predictably under the header "Hosting" on page 22 (if you have trouble finding anything in the rule book, the index in the back will usually guide you there).

Hosting

Some cards can only be installed on other cards; others allow cards to be installed on them.

Thanks a lot mates )