I had the following situation yesterday, on an Imp vs Imp match:

After my opponent ended maneuvering one his interceptors, it ended its movement close to my firespray, well inside my range 1. After thinking a little, my opponent declares a barrel roll, but to my surprise, he doesn't tries to elude my firing arc, he rolls directly towards me, and gently slides the TIE/In base along the template until both (Firespray - Interceptor) bases TOUCH.

So that's it. He claims no overlapping, only touching. Thus, he could perform the barrel roll since technically he never overlapped my ship at any moment, and we couldn't fire at each other.

At that moment and from the top of my head, I couldn't remember any restriction to that course of action, and since I dind't want to waste more time checking rules I conceded and allowed it, with a caveat of not making it a precedent for future games. Later, I couldn't still find anything that explicitly prohibits using barrell roll to just touch another ship's base.

Your Thoughts? Did I miss something?

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*EDIT:* I think I just found the answer to my own question on the FAQ, where it states that two ships cannot be considered touching if neither of them overlapped in the round. I probably was too sleepy to see that yesterday. Funny that I always wondered what could be the purpose of that rule. However I'm still interested in seeing if everyone agrees on that interpretation.

Touching matters not. Overlapping is everything.

It is, as we've learned in the FAQ, that touching only matters if it is the direct result of overlapping.

Or to put it another way what Wookie Hunter said.

Unless I'm mistaken here the problem isn't the touching/overlap issue but rather you let him "slide" the fighter down the template and apparently STOP before he made it to the end. My impression is that when you Barrel Roll you lay down the template and then set the ship down at the other end of it. I guess there may be some sliding up and down along the edge of the rolling fighter but there is NO sliding down the length of the template.

Putting things another way the barrel roll may allow the fighter to alter its forward/backward position a little bit but when looking at the side to side position it either rolls all the way or not at all.

You cannot barrel roll or boost into contact with a ship or obstacle.

A ship cannot perform a barrel roll if this would cause its base to overlap another ship or obstacle token, or if the maneuver template overlaps an obstacle token

The chances of being able to barrel roll and just end up touch well that was lucky.

You cannot barrel roll or boost into contact with a ship or obstacle.

I don't believe this is correct.

You cannot barrel roll or boost if they overlap. I don't see anything against contact.

Someone correct me if they see it please.

Indeed I meant overlap. I highly doubt the opponent was so exact in his movement of the model, placing of the templates, etc.. that the ship landed just right.

Yoda: "There is over lapping and there is not overlapping, there is no try."

Indeed I meant overlap. I highly doubt the opponent was so exact in his movement of the model, placing of the templates, etc.. that the ship landed just right.

Yoda: "There is over lapping and there is not overlapping, there is no try."

Ah, but in the original post the opposing player used the barrel roll specifically to 'just touch' the base of the other player.

I will say - I had one game over the past weekend, where I executed a maneuver - I don't THINK it was a barrel roll (I know barrel rolls aren't maneuvers, I'm saying I think it was a regular move and not a barrel roll, is all) - and wound up slotting in perfectly lined up touching but not overlapping another ship's base. First time I'd ever seen it, but we both agreed, So it can happen. I think the way we ruled it, we were in base contact, so we could not target one another, but had not collided, so I didn't lose my action that turn.

I will say - I had one game over the past weekend, where I executed a maneuver - I don't THINK it was a barrel roll (I know barrel rolls aren't maneuvers, I'm saying I think it was a regular move and not a barrel roll, is all) - and wound up slotting in perfectly lined up touching but not overlapping another ship's base. First time I'd ever seen it, but we both agreed, So it can happen. I think the way we ruled it, we were in base contact, so we could not target one another, but had not collided, so I didn't lose my action that turn

Since Barrel Roll allows for significant forward/backward slide, it should indeed be possible to end up physically touching, without first overlapping (which would prevent that action as has been stated).

However, since the FAQ states that ships can not be considered "touching" (in the technical, rules defined way) if they have not overlapped, then the ships should be able to fire on each other if in arc.

Doesn't the FAQ seriously weaken and already weak Arvel? Now ships can touch and still fire.

This also takes some of the steam out of Anti-Prusuit Lasers too.

Doesn't the FAQ seriously weaken and already weak Arvel? Now ships can touch and still fire.

This also takes some of the steam out of Anti-Prusuit Lasers too.

Not really. How many times have you ever seen someone barrel roll into touching? Me: never. I can't see it as an advantage in most cases. since the ships are physically touching, but not "touching" in the game-state, both can fire on each other, if in arcs. But if someone overlaps Arvel, or he overlaps them, only Arvel retains the ability to fire.

This has no effect at all on APL either, which only activate when there is an overlap.

For what it is worth, as long as you can barrel roll right/left, you can place the template anywhere on the side of the ship and position the ship anywhere on the other side. There is no first placement rule concerning where you place the ship on the other side. Slide to your hearts content. If you disagree, show me in the rules where it says you cannot slide the ship along the templace, or event he template along the side of the ship before picking the ship up and determining final position.

For what it is worth, as long as you can barrel roll right/left, you can place the template anywhere on the side of the ship and position the ship anywhere on the other side. There is no first placement rule concerning where you place the ship on the other side. Slide to your hearts content. If you disagree, show me in the rules where it says you cannot slide the ship along the templace, or event he template along the side of the ship before picking the ship up and determining final position.

This is correct. ^ ^ ^

I'll have to find where it's explained, but I believe somewhere in the rules or FAQ they make it clear you can do exactly that, and use barrel rolls to either accelerate (moving forward as far as possible) or slow your approach (barrel rolling backward as far as possible).

The rule as I remember it is that no part of the 1 speed template you use for a barrel roll, placing it flush against the base of your ship, can extend past the base of your ship. So you can have the extreme edge of the movement template flush with the fore or aft end of your base, but it cannot extend PAST the fore or aft edge of your base. Within that one rule, you are welcome to slide the template up and down the base until you find the spot you want.

It's also worth noting you can do that on the OTHER side, as well. Your ship can be placed on the far side of the 1-speed anywhere along the length of your base - so long as the edge of the template is within or flush with the edge of your ship base. It actually creates a lot of north/south movement along with the roll itself, and it's absolutely legal.

It shows this on page 8 its nice diagram.

It shows this on page 8 its nice diagram.

Yep I am looking at it. You can move the template anywhere on the left or right side of the ship as long as the template doesn't extend past the edge of the base. It can be in front of behind. Where does it say you can't slide the ship up and down the template to your hearts content?

I don't think it does. In fact it's a little wordy and could have been clearer, but I think the rules support it. Emphasis mine. Barrel roll, steps 2 and 3.

The second part is a little bit wordier, and doesn't say as flat out "may be placed anywhere," but it is definitely alluded to by the 'no part of the template goes beyond the front OR back edge." If you weren't allowed to slide the ship up and down the far side of the template, the front and back edges of your base would never come into play.

It shows this on page 8 its nice diagram.

Yep I am looking at it. You can move the template anywhere on the left or right side of the ship as long as the template doesn't extend past the edge of the base. It can be in front of behind. Where does it say you can't slide the ship up and down the template to your hearts content?

It doesn't.

The problem I have, and I believe other would as well, is if/when you slide 'along' the template which is the wording used in the original post. It many ways that is implying that the ship's final position is still somewhere over the template which is certainly illegal. A barrel roll can give you about a half a speed one movement forward or backward but it always moves a full one left or right.

Hopefully nobody thought that. The intent was to explain you move the full 1 'east/west' to the other end of the template, and THEN can place your ship 'north/south' as long as no part of the template extends further than either edge of your base. But yes, you absolutely have to move the full 1 sideways.

Hopefully nobody thought that. The intent was to explain you move the full 1 'east/west' to the other end of the template, and THEN can place your ship 'north/south' as long as no part of the template extends further than either edge of your base. But yes, you absolutely have to move the full 1 sideways.

Indeed, that was the intent. The 'sliding' was 'north/south' along the template's width, and of course no part of the template exceeded the ship's base. My opponent used the 'sliding' both as a way to gentle put the miniature into its final position without disrupting other miniatures, and to clearly show that his intention was to touch my ship, without overlapping it.

A ship cannot perform a barrel roll if this would cause its base to overlap another ship or obstacle token, or if the maneuver template overlaps an obstacle token

does that mean on the next turn if the ships are touching and both move the same distance the second ship could barrel role across the first. So to end up on the other side Of the ship.

Then as you can move slightly backwards your still touching. But do that another time you end up apart and able to shoot at the ship.

I believe that 'touching' and 'overlapping' mean the same here. If you make a move of any kind and 'touch' or 'overlap' the base of another ship or obstacle you lose your action and may not fire at the ship being 'touched' or 'overlapped'

I think we are rules lawyering here folks......

I believe that 'touching' and 'overlapping' mean the same here. If you make a move of any kind and 'touch' or 'overlap' the base of another ship or obstacle you lose your action and may not fire at the ship being 'touched' or 'overlapped'

I think we are rules lawyering here folks......

But I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that FFG has made is clear the touching IS NOT the same as overlapping. And that the touching rule, in the Core Rules, only applies as a result of overlapping and having to move your base backwards along the movement template 'until they touch'.

Otherwise touching, if it is just that, is not covered in the rules so there are no prohibitions to firing that I know of.

No lawyering just, if I understand correctly, the rules and FAQ.

That puts a different light on it I guess, I had not seen that FFG statement. If that is true, then sliding in a barrel roll until touching would allow firing as you say.