I've been planning to try out that trio as soon as I get the bomber

Homing missile wouldn't be worth it since you can only reroll a given die once but the rest would be awesome with jonus backing them. Each Advance would get one really strong secondary attack and then the Advance has a better general dogfighting ability than the bomber. Could be fun.

I'm surprised that Advanced is getting so much attention. Ever since it came out everyone has said other than Lord Vader they were not worth fielding. Now with Jonas they have a chance but wouldn't they be an Alpha strike only?

Am I missing something or are they better fighters than what I've been hearing.

Ken, I'd say the possible increase in rating the Adv is mainly in comparison with the bomber. The shields protect an Adv from some crits, they have an extra evade dice and the evade action, and their dials have less reds (and less greens) So at five points more they (may) have a better long term survivability when compared to a bomber.

If your using ships for an alpha strike, and to be honest you get a bit risky if you put more than one or two ordinances on a single ship, then you'd want to do so on one which is still useful in the rest of the battle. Bombers with ordinance will hit hard and fast, but after their missiles and torps are spent they might no longer be useful. The dislike for the Adv seems to generally be based on the lesser attack die, rather than its survivability, and the latter might be more of an assest if you can hit hard enough with a Jonus-enhanced alphanstrike. Whether that is indeed the case in an Adv versus a Bomber we'll just have to see.

Vader + Jonus = Awesome

I'm surprised that Advanced is getting so much attention. Ever since it came out everyone has said other than Lord Vader they were not worth fielding. Now with Jonas they have a chance but wouldn't they be an Alpha strike only?

Am I missing something or are they better fighters than what I've been hearing.

You are not missing anything, they are better fighters than you have been hearing. Like a turretless Y-Wing, they have never really been that bad. The problem is that there has always been something that was clearly, if only slightly, better for the same points. But when that fact gets posted on the internet, the typical internet exaggeration kicks in and before you know it people are talking about it as if it were the worst thing since the fall of the Roman Empire. A Storm squadron TIE Advanced has always been significantly better than a TIE, but not twice as good. Had TIE/Ad been two points cheaper across the board (like the Y-Wing, coincidentally), they would have been in lists as often as anything else.

Mostly, I think the reason TIE/Ad and Y-Wings have been unpopular has been the general uselessness of ordnance. Now that there is a possibility to make ordnance more cost effective, both of these ships have been nudged towards cost-effectiveness.

I tend to believe that TIE Adv were deliberately overpriced (slightly) just as A-wings are deliberately overpriced (slightly). Both come very close to crossing over into the opposition's characteristics of ship design. The TIE/Adv reflects more rebel philosophy of robustness, secondary armament, etc. To field four of these effectively would put such a squad beyond 100 pts. The A-wing edges over towards the Imperial philosophy of maneuverability, speed and light armament. To field an Imperial-like swarm of five of them would put the squad beyond 100 pts.

So I think the pricing of the TIE Adv. and A-Wing is more by design that miscalculation. The TIE Adv. abilities now are augmented by the TIE bomber without the perceived necessity to correct their cost.

The shuttle and the B-wing have 1 agility, which helps make the TIE advanced 2 for primary attack not so bad.

I'm surprised that Advanced is getting so much attention. Ever since it came out everyone has said other than Lord Vader they were not worth fielding. Now with Jonas they have a chance but wouldn't they be an Alpha strike only?

Am I missing something or are they better fighters than what I've been hearing.

I think, Vader's awesome ability aside, the biggest perceived weakness of the Advanced is that it's kind of a niche fighter - and as someone pointed out, comes perilously close to looking more like a Rebel fighter (stat wise), which I think makes Imperial players uncomfortable.

But seriously, it's just a little more costly than they're used to flying. You can't really fit them in a swarm when you could almost take two Academy pilots for the cost. A Rebel player would be all over that thing, though; missiles, focus, evade, barrel roll, target lock, AND an agility 3 with a better move dial than an X-Wing? Yes please!

It would be nice if it had guns at 3 like the Interceptor, but the fact it can TL, unlike most TIEs, I think gets overlooked as far as making the shots hit more reliably than your average TIE.

I guess for my two cents, it's mainly just an uncomfortable fit as far as popular Imperial lists go, and as a result people tend to over-focus on its negatives and ignore all of the things it has going for it. So on the one hand yeah, it's a bit expensive and flies like a slightly clumsier TIE, on the other hand it can do a lot of things the TIE can't, and gets a worse rap than it deserves.

The increasing predominance of high hull values is also a boon for Mareek's ability as putting a crit on a ship with 3 hull is kind of meh but on a ship with 5 or 6 hull is actually pretty good.

I have been thinking of including mareek in my imp lists in higher point values just for that reason. 150 points, Mareek might shine with marksmenship.

I like Maarek, he doesn't get enough love. Like everyone sees an Advanced and realizes it's him and is all disappointed. "No, it's cool, man. I just thought you were....someone else."

I tend to believe that TIE Adv were deliberately overpriced (slightly) just as A-wings are deliberately overpriced (slightly). Both come very close to crossing over into the opposition's characteristics of ship design. The TIE/Adv reflects more rebel philosophy of robustness, secondary armament, etc. To field four of these effectively would put such a squad beyond 100 pts. The A-wing edges over towards the Imperial philosophy of maneuverability, speed and light armament. To field an Imperial-like swarm of five of them would put the squad beyond 100 pts.

So I think the pricing of the TIE Adv. and A-Wing is more by design that miscalculation. The TIE Adv. abilities now are augmented by the TIE bomber without the perceived necessity to correct their cost.

You may be correct. But if the overpricing was by design, then THAT was a miscalculation...

For game balance and variety, especially a game balanced by point value, the cost must accurately reflect the relative capability of the piece. If it is too low, you will damage the game by having an overabundance of that piece. If it is too high, you will damage the game by having too few of that piece. Underpricing is generally more damaging, since you will see a large number of one-trick lists (think, 8 TIE swarms, and Falcon lists), and very few of anything else. Overpricing will also cause a loss of variety because the overpriced piece will see very little play. See the lack of A-Wings and TIE/Advanced for examples. Either of these errors will cause the game to lose long term viability because people quickly grow tired of seeing the "same old, same old" over and over.

The nice thing about point values is that they can be easily errata'd, unlike major game balance issues that stem from systemic issues. How many games have you seen where one type of unit, maybe ranged fire, is so effective that other types of units are just inherently bad by comparison. Hopefully, FFG will update the costs for current ships in the future. Despite their aversion to making changes to existing cards/ships, that would be a much simpler, much more effective long term solution to the overabundance of swarms/falcon lists than releasing new "fixes" like Assault Missiles in every expansion.

The nice thing about point values is that they can be easily errata'd, unlike major game balance issues that stem from systemic issues. How many games have you seen where one type of unit, maybe ranged fire, is so effective that other types of units are just inherently bad by comparison. Hopefully, FFG will update the costs for current ships in the future.

I think they are already doing this in a way by making Missile list more viable. Therefore making the A-Wing and X1 more viable, and worth more.

Errata some cards, offer packs of all the reprints for like $5.

If you want to just put stickers or something on yours, go for it. If you're willing to pay a few bucks for replacements, they can make back some of their printing costs.

Errata some cards, offer packs of all the reprints for like $5.

If you want to just put stickers or something on yours, go for it. If you're willing to pay a few bucks for replacements, they can make back some of their printing costs.

Having had to do it before for a company it's not that easy, there are all kinds of issues. You need to check everyone has the latest cards at tournament. Players have the whole issue of working out which ships have v2 cards etc. What it much easier is some new upgrades that make them worth their points.

I tend to believe that TIE Adv were deliberately overpriced (slightly) just as A-wings are deliberately overpriced (slightly). Both come very close to crossing over into the opposition's characteristics of ship design. The TIE/Adv reflects more rebel philosophy of robustness, secondary armament, etc. To field four of these effectively would put such a squad beyond 100 pts. The A-wing edges over towards the Imperial philosophy of maneuverability, speed and light armament. To field an Imperial-like swarm of five of them would put the squad beyond 100 pts.

So I think the pricing of the TIE Adv. and A-Wing is more by design that miscalculation. The TIE Adv. abilities now are augmented by the TIE bomber without the perceived necessity to correct their cost.

You may be correct. But if the overpricing was by design, then THAT was a miscalculation...

For game balance and variety, especially a game balanced by point value, the cost must accurately reflect the relative capability of the piece. If it is too low, you will damage the game by having an overabundance of that piece. If it is too high, you will damage the game by having too few of that piece. Underpricing is generally more damaging, since you will see a large number of one-trick lists (think, 8 TIE swarms, and Falcon lists), and very few of anything else. Overpricing will also cause a loss of variety because the overpriced piece will see very little play. See the lack of A-Wings and TIE/Advanced for examples. Either of these errors will cause the game to lose long term viability because people quickly grow tired of seeing the "same old, same old" over and over.

The nice thing about point values is that they can be easily errata'd, unlike major game balance issues that stem from systemic issues. How many games have you seen where one type of unit, maybe ranged fire, is so effective that other types of units are just inherently bad by comparison. Hopefully, FFG will update the costs for current ships in the future. Despite their aversion to making changes to existing cards/ships, that would be a much simpler, much more effective long term solution to the overabundance of swarms/falcon lists than releasing new "fixes" like Assault Missiles in every expansion.

Personally, I think we should start lobbying FF to release new pilot cards with 1 pt lower point costs all Tie Adv. as well as Arvel Crynyd! We just need a snappy-sounding name for this campaign to turn it into a full-blown movement....

Long term, the errata works best though I understand the economic and logistical reasons why companies are reluctant to do it. The danger with creating new upgrades/etc. in order to fix balance issues is that each of those additions alters the entire metagame, not just the specific ships with the problem. If FFG continues along this path, I wouldn't be surprised if they break the meta unintentionally by trying to fix a specific problem with a generalized solution. Its like trying to hammer nails with a wrecking ball, and they wouldn't be the first game company to break a good game by doing it.

They don't need to make any errata. Just print new ship cards with different titles with a lower cost. Instead of Rookie Pilot we will have Newbie Pilot (just an example). Although I haven't really seen anything that warrants this, more like everyone just dreaming for a squadron they can fit more stuff into, or a third faction.

They don't need to make any errata. Just print new ship cards with different titles with a lower cost. Instead of Rookie Pilot we will have Newbie Pilot (just an example). Although I haven't really seen anything that warrants this, more like everyone just dreaming for a squadron they can fit more stuff into, or a third faction.

Yep a couple of new pilots bundled with the Transport would sort it. Or possibly a couple of Titles for unique experimental X1s.. I would be wary of making anything that is just identical to a current pilot with a slightly lower cost.

Sure, have Newbie Pilot be skill 0. Have Jek Porkins be be maneuver 1. Lots of ways to adjust them to make them fit the lower point costs. I would rather see them sold separately than with the Transport seeing I have no use of that though...

Two points of dissatisfaction I have with the TIE Advanced are the lack of offensive capability and no Elite Pilot Talents for the generics. So you cannot modify their basic attack capabilities in any way except the one-shot missile. The best ordinance Homing Missiles (as they do not force you to spend the target lock) are expensive, on top of an already expensive fighter. So it isn't as if you can give them marksmanship.

2 attack dice is satisfactory when you are flying ships in quantity- which is why TIE Swarms work the way they do. At the point cost they are at you could get about four TIE Advanced fighters in a list (just shy of 5). Even with that quantity though you're still not putting out enough damage to match, say, a 4 X-Wing list... which has the advantage in terms of attack power. Unless they are rookie pilots they will also be shooting before the X1s.

The best way I can think of x1s being viable when Wave 3 hits is possibly as a counter to B-Wings. Their greater resiliency protects them from the storm of shots B-Wings are going to put out and shields protect them from Ten's crit'ing ability. They might last long enough to get into close range of someone squishy like the HWK-290 or get behind a B-Wing and use cluster missiles. The Advanced's resiliency is the only strong point about this fighter at the moment, aside from Vader obviously. Otherwise at present I don't see any upgrades that could help the Advanced. Even the Y-Wing's new blaster turret is kind of questionable on its ability to make the Y-Wing something other than an Ion cannon platform.

Beyond? The Advanced could use the benefit of Modifications, New missile Ordinance, or Titles. Stealth devices increase the TIE Advanced's resiliency even better, which could make them survive a few more turns and serve as tanks of a list. Maybe some kind of title that allows them to take a free EPT? or a modification that auto-switches a focus to a hit result (L-s7.2 L-s9.3 laser cannon, which was used on x1s, Avengers, and Defenders)

The bottom line is that there are two ways to improve the TIE Advanced x1's playability: Make it into a counter for new starships/upgrades, or create new upgrades the TIE Advanced can use to improve its playability.

Points reductions are much easier to handle errata-wise than points increases. Release the errata, make sure that the cards in future reprints accurately reflect the new cost. We already see very little use of the overpriced ships, there will be next to zero participation in tournaments (which is the only place official points costs are strictly enforced) by people using the "old costs". Only people with correct, up to date costs will be running those ships in tournaments. For the occasional person who enters a tournament with "old info", his list will still be legal since he will now have a list that runs less than 100 points, so you won't have people getting disqualified because they didn't know what is going on.

In any case, familiarity with the rules and the current FAQ is a requirement to play in tournaments already. Regardless of whether you know it or not, Boosting or Barrel-Rolling onto a Prox Mine will set it off because that is the ruling in the most recent FAQ. You now have an entirely new layer of rules about premeasuring actions that runs flatly against the wording in the rulebook. Resistance to a simple errata changing the cost of a ship is emotional, not practical.

I guess my problem with all this talk about point reductions is that the TIE advanced is already at the lowest it can go without making it swarmy. If you drop them down to 20 points you can fit 5 on a squad. I'm not saying that will break the game, but it might. The empire doesn't need more fighter spam lists. I think that's why they designed them at 21 points. After all, it's not like TIE advanced were seen in large groups, right?

Somebody earlier said that units costing too little can break the game. I agree. They also said units costing too much can break it. I disagree. If a unit costs too much, then that expansion sits on the shelf and the game goes on fine without it.