I'm looking into getting a twin-linked weapon and trying to make sure I understand the rules correctly

If the base weapon has a ROF of S/2/-, the maximum number of hits I could get with the twin-linked version if fired on semi-auto is 3 if I get 2 degrees of success (2 from semi-auto, one from twin-linked), but the ammo expenditure will be 4, is this correct?

Yup, that's about the long and short of it.

As far as I can determine after reading the entry myself (in all the rulebooks save Dark Heresy), this is correct.

Interestingly, Twin-Linked works the same in Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, and Only War. But not in Black Crusade, even though Black Crusade was released between Deathwatch and Only War. I wonder what specifically made them backtrack.

I'll quote the relevant sections here, so that everyone that comes to the thread is on the same page:

Exact quote is from Only War Core Rulebook , pg. 173.

TWIN-LINKED
A Twin-Linked weapon represents two identical weapons connected together and linked to fire at the same time, often through one pull of the trigger or push of a button. Twin-linked weapons are built this way in order to increase the chances of scoring a hit through the crude expedience of blasting more shots at the target. A weapon with the Twin-linked Quality gains a +20 to hit when fired and uses twice as much ammunition. In addition, the weapon scores one additional hit if the attack roll succeeds by two or more Degrees of Success. Lastly, the weapon’s reload time is doubled.

Exact quote is from Black Crusade Core Rulebook , pg. 153.

TWIN-LINKED
A simple way to increase the fi repower of a weapon is to strap two of them together! Twin-linked weapons represent two of the same kind of weapon fi xed together and rigged to fi re simultaneously with a single squeeze of the trigger. When fi ring a Twin-Linked weapon the wielder can choose to either gain a +10 to hit or an additional hit if they score at least one successful hit. Twin-Linked weapons expend twice their RoF in ammunition with each shot.

Now another interesting tidbit of note is that Only War and Black Crusade counts Degrees of Success differently than the others, counting the regular success as a Degree of Success. Thus, someone that beats his test by 45 points have achieved 5 Degrees of Success, not 4 (as it would be in Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader and Deathwatch).

This means that anything dealing with Degrees of Success is much easier to achieve in Black Crusade and Only War, and important to have in the back of your head when you are mixing the rulesets.

It means that someone with a Ballistic Skill of 50 attempting a Difficult (-10) shot with a Twin-Linked Bolter would need a roll of 30 in Rogue Trader, in order to score and extra hit, but only a roll of 40 in Only War. That's actually a massive boost.

Homebrewing it myself, however, using the basic rules of Only War (which I would use either way), I would keep it at two degrees, and add another hit for every three beyond that, up to the maximum amounts shot.

But that's just me enjoying gratuitous amounts of bullethail.

I realize that I went a bit farther than just answering your question, but I hope I stuck close enough to the subject to not derail things. Sorry about that, but I always find things to talk about when I start plowing through the books, and apparently I had an urge to write stuff.

Edit: Drats. Errant beat me to it. Oh well.

I'm looking into getting a twin-linked weapon and trying to make sure I understand the rules correctly

If the base weapon has a ROF of S/2/-, the maximum number of hits I could get with the twin-linked version if fired on semi-auto is 3 if I get 2 degrees of success (2 from semi-auto, one from twin-linked), but the ammo expenditure will be 4, is this correct?

Yep. That's exactly how it works.

No clue where the last shot goes.

No clue where the last shot goes.

Wherever is appropriately dramatic for the scene of course.

I'm looking into getting a twin-linked weapon and trying to make sure I understand the rules correctly

If the base weapon has a ROF of S/2/-, the maximum number of hits I could get with the twin-linked version if fired on semi-auto is 3 if I get 2 degrees of success (2 from semi-auto, one from twin-linked), but the ammo expenditure will be 4, is this correct?

Yep. That's exactly how it works.

No clue where the last shot goes.

It's even more interesting when you have something like twin-linked heavy bolters and you need to wonder where did the last 9 shots go

I'm looking into getting a twin-linked weapon and trying to make sure I understand the rules correctly

If the base weapon has a ROF of S/2/-, the maximum number of hits I could get with the twin-linked version if fired on semi-auto is 3 if I get 2 degrees of success (2 from semi-auto, one from twin-linked), but the ammo expenditure will be 4, is this correct?

Yep. That's exactly how it works.

No clue where the last shot goes.

Don't be ridiculous. We all know where it went.

It went into those oil barrels over there.

It then ricochet into the propane refinery.

After that, it finally hit the helicopter or the car, which promptly exploded into a ball of fire.

I don't see anything stating that twin-linked weapons can score hits in excess of the weapon's RoF, though.

I don't see anything stating that twin-linked weapons can score hits in excess of the weapon's RoF, though.

That would be impossible by the current rules. Twin-Linked by RAW can only score one additional hit, while always doubling the RoF. Since anything and everything will always have a RoF of at least 1, and doubling it to 2, a Twin-Linked weapon will never be able to exceed it's RoF, for obvious reasons.

Or did I misunderstand your statement?

Personally, I think that Twin-Linked by RAW is a bum deal. It's mostly used for high-RoF weapons in Burst- or Full-Auto, which will already spew up to 10 bullets. Increasing it to 20 bullets expended and doubling reload time (which could possibly increase reload time to 4 full rounds in most ( all listed weapons I could find that are available to the player and Twin-Linked from the beginning...?) cases - for the potential of a single extra hit?

Maybe I'm missing something, I often am, but ****. By RAW, I would only ever Twin-Link (via upgrade, if permissible) low-RoF weapons with high impact.

Of course, narratively it's another thing entirely. I'd love to have a Twin-Linked Storm Bolter or Heavy Stubber or Autocannon. But rules-wise, it's not very.. useful. Again, unless I' missing something.

Twin-Linking some kind of heavy Sniper Rifle would be neat, though.

I don't see anything stating that twin-linked weapons can score hits in excess of the weapon's RoF, though.

That would be impossible by the current rules. Twin-Linked by RAW can only score one additional hit, while always doubling the RoF. Since anything and everything will always have a RoF of at least 1, and doubling it to 2, a Twin-Linked weapon will never be able to exceed it's RoF, for obvious reasons.

Or did I misunderstand your statement?

Personally, I think that Twin-Linked by RAW is a bum deal. It's mostly used for high-RoF weapons in Burst- or Full-Auto, which will already spew up to 10 bullets. Increasing it to 20 bullets expended and doubling reload time (which could possibly increase reload time to 4 full rounds in most ( all listed weapons I could find that are available to the player and Twin-Linked from the beginning...?) cases - for the potential of a single extra hit?

Maybe I'm missing something, I often am, but ****. By RAW, I would only ever Twin-Link (via upgrade, if permissible) low-RoF weapons with high impact.

Of course, narratively it's another thing entirely. I'd love to have a Twin-Linked Storm Bolter or Heavy Stubber or Autocannon. But rules-wise, it's not very.. useful. Again, unless I' missing something.

Twin-Linking some kind of heavy Sniper Rifle would be neat, though.

They way it works, I see it being useful for 2 things:

-getting extra hits with high-damage, low ROF weapons

-getting a +20 to attack with high ROF weapons (Which translates in extra hits until the point you'd have BS so high you hit with all the needed degrees of success anyway.

Well, yeah, sorry, I had a brainfart and completely forgot about the +20 BS.

Carry on.

Also, thanks.

Twin-linked is actually very good when used with OW/BC rules for firing modes. That +20 to hit becomes quite big when firing full-auto is a -10 check by default.

"Interestingly, Twin-Linked works the same in Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, and Only War. But not in Black Crusade, even though Black Crusade was released between Deathwatch and Only War. I wonder what specifically made them backtrack."

I think Scatter also changed then reverted?

"They way it works, I see it being useful for 2 things:

-getting extra hits with high-damage, low ROF weapons"

...Yeah. Our local Deathwatch Kill-Team got to play around with a Razorback the other week, and ****-near took down a Carnifex with a single attack. Twin-Linked Godhammer Lascannons are horrific .

It's only a +10 for Black Crusade. Which was a double kick in the unmentionables, really; not only did you lose the dear-holy-god-what-the-smeg Storm Astartes Storm Bolter in favour of a Twin-Linked Legion Combi-Bolter, but they also downgraded the Twin-Linked trait to boot.

There is no boost. You are I believe mistaking an FFG copy-paste error for a rules change.

Twin-Linked in Only War SHOULD be refering to "extra degrees of success," not "degrees of success." It doesn't because the text was copy-pasted from a previous game publuches prior to the redefinition of "degrees of success" and no editor caught it.

This error recurs constantly in the OW rulebook, esp. in the description of evading semi and full auto attacks, where it is most obvious.

"This means that anything dealing with Degrees of Success is much easier to achieve in Black Crusade and Only War, and important to have in the back of your head when you are mixing the rulesets.

It means that someone with a Ballistic Skill of 50 attempting a Difficult (-10) shot with a Twin-Linked Bolter would need a roll of 30 in Rogue Trader, in order to score and extra hit, but only a roll of 40 in Only War. That's actually a massive boost."

There is no boost. You are I believe mistaking an FFG copy-paste error for a rules change.

Twin-Linked in Only War SHOULD be refering to "extra degrees of success," not "degrees of success." It doesn't because the text was copy-pasted from a previous game publuches prior to the redefinition of "degrees of success" and no editor caught it.

This error recurs constantly in the OW rulebook, esp. in the description of evading semi and full auto attacks, where it is most obvious.

As much as I have no doubt that this was copy-pasted from previous editions, and could bear with some editing, is there any source on your claim? I'm not doubting the validity of what you say, I'd just like to have a reference if an argument crops up.

Because while it's clear that a lot of content was copy-pasted without significant editing, it doesn't change that RAW is RAW and in some (or all) instances it may have been fully intentional to make things easier.

That would be impossible by the current rules. Twin-Linked by RAW can only score one additional hit, while always doubling the RoF. Since anything and everything will always have a RoF of at least 1, and doubling it to 2, a Twin-Linked weapon will never be able to exceed it's RoF, for obvious reasons.

Or did I misunderstand your statement?

Not my statement as such, but my reading of the rules. Twin-Linked doubles ammo expenditure, but not RoF, which is a quality that describes both ammo expenditure and the maximum amount of hits you can get. Strictly speaking, it doesn't say anywhere that the extra hit from a twin-linked weapon can exceed the weapon's RoF, and this is the way I read the rules since in the tabletop rules, TL doesn't increase your amount of attacks, but only adds to your chance to hit.

This may seem counter-intuitive when you consider Twin-Linked single shot weapons, but those don't really exist outside of vehicles (unless you allow custom item crafting, in which case it's your funeral), and vehicle weapons certainly don't need a boost as it is.

The rule is open to interpretation, certainly, and I won't fault anyone for disagreeing with me, but this is how I read the rule.

"This means that anything dealing with Degrees of Success is much easier to achieve in Black Crusade and Only War, and important to have in the back of your head when you are mixing the rulesets.

It means that someone with a Ballistic Skill of 50 attempting a Difficult (-10) shot with a Twin-Linked Bolter would need a roll of 30 in Rogue Trader, in order to score and extra hit, but only a roll of 40 in Only War. That's actually a massive boost."

There is no boost. You are I believe mistaking an FFG copy-paste error for a rules change.

Twin-Linked in Only War SHOULD be refering to "extra degrees of success," not "degrees of success." It doesn't because the text was copy-pasted from a previous game publuches prior to the redefinition of "degrees of success" and no editor caught it.

This error recurs constantly in the OW rulebook, esp. in the description of evading semi and full auto attacks, where it is most obvious.

As much as I have no doubt that this was copy-pasted from previous editions, and could bear with some editing, is there any source on your claim? I'm not doubting the validity of what you say, I'd just like to have a reference if an argument crops up.

Because while it's clear that a lot of content was copy-pasted without significant editing, it doesn't change that RAW is RAW and in some (or all) instances it may have been fully intentional to make things easier.

Because

1) this recurs very often. For instance, by RAW, a degree of success allows you to evade 2 hits by a full or semi auto burst. I am not psychic but I do not think this was intended,

2) it is inconsistent and incoherent. Logically if you were wanting to increase the effectiveness of DoS you would do it across the board, not in places that absolutely do not need it (like Accurate). It would apply to, say, semi or full auto bursts.

This book is riddled with problems caused by copy-pasting from incompatible rules sets. The most obvious, egregious example is the Fear section, in which the table and the text contradict each other, because the former was copy-pasted from Black Crusade and the latter from Dark Heresy or maybe Rogue Trader, So you have warp entities causing Warp Shock, although they can't because the Shock Table can;t give you Insanity Points at all.

Actually the Fear section also contains a DoS snafu as well, according to which you always get at least a +10 on the Shock Table. You can never get a straight roll on the Shock Table, despite the possibility of doing so being indicated on that very table.

Is there actually a mod to make a weapon twinlinked anywhere in the 40kRPG series of games? I keep swearing there is but failing to find it.

I have a heretek sniper seneshal in RT who is huge on overmodding her Nomad and the ability to put a second sniper round in a target would be wonderful.

Is there actually a mod to make a weapon twinlinked anywhere in the 40kRPG series of games? I keep swearing there is but failing to find it.

I have a heretek sniper seneshal in RT who is huge on overmodding her Nomad and the ability to put a second sniper round in a target would be wonderful.

Orks can make "Kombi-Shootas"; Into the Storm. That makes the weapon Twin-Linked, even if it wasn't before, but obviously, it's just for Orks. It'd probably not work at all for anyone else, and likely explode in your face.

Ascension has rules for making Combi-Weapons, pg. 139. I haven't checked the page, so I'm not sure if you actually get Twin-Linked out of it. Combi-weapons can be any kind of combination, though, not just two of the same kind, and I'm not sure "Twin-Linked" makes sense unless it's two of the same kind that's linked.

And that's it. Haven't checked Only War, but I don't remember it having anything like that. Strangely, it is also absent from Black Crusade, but the reference sheet I'm using only stretches up to Tome of Fate.

Yeah but Ascension Combi-weapons are on the line, Combi-Melta, Combi-Plasma, etc etc. Secondary weapon only having one shot magazine.

Tome of Blood has Combi-weapons for BC characters. Again usually bolter with 1 shot melta, plasma, etc etc.

One of my players got himself in RT a Twin-linked Bolt pistol, Tech-Priest was more than willing to accept his challenge of making it (Not so puritan). Needles to say he had to use both hands when firing that sucker. He got the idea from "Green Hornet" where Villain wields "Twin-linked" Desert Eagle.

Odd. Twin Linked Weapons are a remarkably simple mod, all things considered (Strap two of them together). I'm surprised that there hasn't been rules on how to make them yet.

I used BC Tech-Use Crafting Rules for players RT Explorator to create before mentioned Twin-linked Bolt Pistol. It didn't take too long as both Bolt Pistols were good-craftmanship and Explorator only had to get firing mechanism and synchronisation right.

He had a few snaggs on the way though. Must have been some Warp Gremlings campering around after "few" warp travel mishaps. In which nothing had to do with "Rose" (perception enhancing drug in BC) snorking Navigator. For whom the twin-linked bolt pistol was going.

Odd. Twin Linked Weapons are a remarkably simple mod, all things considered (Strap two of them together). I'm surprised that there hasn't been rules on how to make them yet.

To be frank, I always prefer Storm weapons. You have a sure extra hit for -every- hit you already do, extra bonus for hitting you can achieve by other ways, such as other mods (laser sights) or by actions like Aim.