If a sniper rifles a bolt action. Then bolt action only requires 2.5 seconds to point the gun at your target, fire and work the bolt action.

I have a feeling that some of the complaints about the RoA is because of beleive that each round is 10 seconds.

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Rounds

"Each round represents approximately five seconds, regardless of how many characters are involved."

I feel that to point your gun at a target, fire and work the bolt action is too much for little over 1 second.

Yes, indeed 5 seconds relativates it for me...

Maybe it has to be seen the other way round.

1/2 is not slow - but 1 & more is FAST.

While my opinion obviously isn't universal to everyone arguing against the fractional RoFs, I will say that my issues with the system have nothing to do with realism. It's entirely down to the fact that fractional RoFs reduce your versatility in combat for no apparent gain in balance whatsoever. You're severely limiting what someone can do in a turn for no real reason. If anything, weapons which can't fire fast should be able to more easily benefit from called shots and aiming; both things they can't do as well as machine guns, currently.

But isnt it so, that weapons with low RoF (below 1) often have something as a compensation ?

Special weapon trais (sniper rifle), higher Pen&damage (Melta, Plasma) and such ?

British soldiers in the first world war were trained to be able to carry out the "Mad Minute" with their bolt action Le e-Enfields. This was minute of aimed firing as quickly as possible, and the expected standard for the properly trained ones was to achieve 30 aimed rounds a minute (now, I am taking "aimed" in this sense to be the standard kind of aiming included in the basic attack). However, this was an average of a round every 2 seconds, including the need to reload the entire rifle twice (due to the 10 round capacity of the rifle).

Working a bolt should in no way take 2.5 seconds of time. The only justification of the need to take more APs for the sniper rifle is the fact that as a more precise implement you need to take more time to take advantage of it (especially with the rifle probably being more on the lines of a large calibre specialist sniper rifle than a standard 20th century bolt action weapon).

However, part of this should allow an aiming bonus. Maybe say it has a less than 1 RoF (to reduce the mobility of those wanting to fire with it), but it gets an intrinsic bonus to attacks, to represent the aiming that is part of that more precise operation.

As I said - it would be interesting to give +5 on shots per category below 1 to show the additional time for taking aim.

Or you can give +Perception-Bonus flat on everything below 1 (also melee).

But isnt it so, that weapons with low RoF (below 1) often have something as a compensation ?

Special weapon trais (sniper rifle), higher Pen&damage (Melta, Plasma) and such ?

They do , but ultimately I don't think they'd become unbalanced by bumping up their RoF. People are free to refute this with some mathhammer work if they want, but failing that, I think giving people freedom to do more in their turn is rarely a bad thing.

While my opinion obviously isn't universal to everyone arguing against the fractional RoFs, I will say that my issues with the system have nothing to do with realism. It's entirely down to the fact that fractional RoFs reduce your versatility in combat for no apparent gain in balance whatsoever. You're severely limiting what someone can do in a turn for no real reason. If anything, weapons which can't fire fast should be able to more easily benefit from called shots and aiming; both things they can't do as well as machine guns, currently.

Well put.

Would going back to burst/full auto work or give us new problems?

I had no particular love of that system, it was, even in the much better OW version, a clumsy system and I am reasonably happy with the AP fire rate mechanic since it creates interesting tactical choices (although definitely a lot of aiming I am finding in my campaign). Having weapon attacks or psychic attack powers cost more than 1 AP takes away that flexibility and choice. Limiting rate of fire should be done with special qualities such as single shot, that is all.

Wouldn't the simplest solution here be a change to the Called Shot rules? Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, I only skimmed the thread.

It feels like a Called Shot should be a modifier of the standard attack, rather than a different attack entirely. For example: Called Shot could have an AP Cost of 0, but limit the attack to only a single shot.

Or: Weapons with the Accurate Quality may use the Called Shot Action for free when they Aim.

Something along those lines.

It also sounds like Accurate needs its bonus damage back. Perhaps something like a flat amount of bonus damage per DoS, like the Lightning Claws in DW. Maybe even something that can be scaled up or down easily.

Accurate (X): +X bonus damage for each DoS when a weapon with the Accurate Quality is used with the Aim Action.

A player that had participated in my v1 Dark Heresy game was saying similar things about how single shot weapons had no real advantage or quality distinction compared to weapons that could fire more rapidly.

I've considered increasing the threat range for single shot weapons so that they become more significant in combat without significantly altering the other weapons.

For a game I'm running, single shot weapons would get inherent bonuses due to the extra restrictions they place on the character and I want a weapon sandbox that rewards exploration.

Wouldn't the simplest solution here be a change to the Called Shot rules? Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, I only skimmed the thread.

It feels like a Called Shot should be a modifier of the standard attack, rather than a different attack entirely. For example: Called Shot could have an AP Cost of 0, but limit the attack to only a single shot.

Or: Weapons with the Accurate Quality may use the Called Shot Action for free when they Aim.

Something along those lines.

It also sounds like Accurate needs its bonus damage back. Perhaps something like a flat amount of bonus damage per DoS, like the Lightning Claws in DW. Maybe even something that can be scaled up or down easily.

Accurate (X): +X bonus damage for each DoS when a weapon with the Accurate Quality is used with the Aim Action.

I suggested once to give +1 damage per DoS at called shots to make them more competitive. YOu could give +2 if the weapon is accurate.

A more accurate weapon simply makes it easier to aim - it doesn't necessarily make it more powerful.

By making Called Shots add damage based on DoS, and with Accurate giving the same attack bonus with 2 AP that a non-Accurate weapon would receive with 3 AP, you could easily achieve a similar result by spending 2 AP on Aiming (+30) and a third AP on Called Shot to get the bonus damage (bear in mind the +30 from Aiming will increase your average damage from Called Shot).

To really work effectively, I suggest replacing all weapons with RoF of 1/2 and 1/3 with RoF 1 and Single Shot.

To really work effectively, I suggest replacing all weapons with RoF of 1/2 and 1/3 with RoF 1 and Single Shot.

Would that be with the bonus damage for called shots?

To really work effectively, I suggest replacing all weapons with RoF of 1/2 and 1/3 with RoF 1 and Single Shot.

Would that be with the bonus damage for called shots?

Yes. They complement each other.

I like that idea.

AND it should be possible to aim over 2 turns+, not only inside one.

A limit of the number of stacking aims would be better then to artificially limit them within a turn...

Max bonus of +20, or +30?

There's little point in allowing Aim bonuses to carry over to your next turn if you're capping it anyway. My suggestion of increasing all RoF 1/2 and 1/3 weapons to RoF 1 pretty much fixes this. Spending 1 AP on shooting leaves you with a potential +30 (+45 for accurate) Aim bonus.

The only thing that allowing Aim bonuses to carry over would be to stagger your attack over two turns, which only makes combat more complicated with no tactical advantage.

What about giving accurate a free aim or called-shot action ?

That would make it possible to aim with sniper rifles, even if their RoF is low...

How about your first aim counts double?

Thats the same as a free one, but I free one is even granted if you take no other action to aim - therefore it would be better.

Am I to understand I can shoot from the hip and aim? or do I need to reread something?

As I make my own edited rulebook for my current campaign I have changed all RoF listings to have the following notation standard:

RoF 1+ is RAW

RoF 1/3 and 1/4 become RoF 1[1]

RoF 1/2 becomes RoF 1[2]

The number in the bracket indicates the maximum number of AP you can spend firing the weapon per turn.

This is reasonably easy to convert, easy to notate, flexible, since you could even have a three shot burst or some such, and actually saves space since it gets rid of special qualities like single shot while maintaining the functionality.