I find it offensive that I have to shell out $40+ dollars to get figures that should have been included in the original game!

I don't mind paying money for additional content. But this seems really gimicky. Package up additional content with a plastic figure, so people who just want the plastic figure don't feel totally ripped off.

If they're going to force me to buy figures that should be included in the original game, they could have at least stuck with the premium pewter ones.

...? They're not forcing you to buy anything?

I find it offensive that I have to shell out $40+ dollars to get figures that should have been included in the original game!

I don't mind paying money for additional content. But this seems really gimicky. Package up additional content with a plastic figure, so people who just want the plastic figure don't feel totally ripped off.

If they're going to force me to buy figures that should be included in the original game, they could have at least stuck with the premium pewter ones.

Has it occurred to you that maybe designing the lieutenants this way was an after thought ? I'd be pissed at FFG if they released these figures on the opening day of the 2nd edition box set.

FFG did not pull a fast one like EA / Bioware did for Mass Effect 3.

-Cursain

I find it offensive that I have to shell out $40+ dollars to get figures that should have been included in the original game!

I don't mind paying money for additional content. But this seems really gimicky. Package up additional content with a plastic figure, so people who just want the plastic figure don't feel totally ripped off.

If they're going to force me to buy figures that should be included in the original game, they could have at least stuck with the premium pewter ones.

I don't think this was a gimmick at all. I'm sure FFG thought of adding in these figures back when they were first designing the core set, but I'm betting that cost made it prohibitive. The core set already came with a great deal of material, so I have always been able to see why these were not included - especially if FFG wanted to keep it all in a certain price range.

Furthermore, I'm glad they didn't use pewter, as it would have messed with the look too much.

If anything I commend FFG for going back and providing us with these add-ons.

I find it offensive that I have to shell out $40+ dollars to get figures that should have been included in the original game!

I don't mind paying money for additional content. But this seems really gimicky. Package up additional content with a plastic figure, so people who just want the plastic figure don't feel totally ripped off.

If they're going to force me to buy figures that should be included in the original game, they could have at least stuck with the premium pewter ones.

I don't think this was a gimmick at all. I'm sure FFG thought of adding in these figures back when they were first designing the core set, but I'm betting that cost made it prohibitive. The core set already came with a great deal of material, so I have always been able to see why these were not included - especially if FFG wanted to keep it all in a certain price range.

I disagree. I believe the figures were intentionally kept out, with the idea of selling them to us later. This is how it was done when they were originally released for Road to Legend. I'm not saying it's wrong, FFG is all about its add-on products and it is to be expected. Six addition minis might have raised the cost of each game a dollar or two, at most. But they can make a lot more doing it this way. Not that there's anything wrong with it; they have a business to support and speciality products charge a premium.

They're forcing indirectly for us to buy, because every time you play you get angry with that **** token and want them to be a miniature. it feels incomplete game. this is the marketing game. If we are not being forced, why don't they provide the decks to download??

The fantasyflight is famous in the gaming industry and part is because of that. I was impressed that they distributed on the Internet manual revised edition of runewars.

runewars is and always will be a game full of expansions that you never really know what buy. because the curve of balancing it leans to one side and to the other side in every Expansion, and you're trying to fix that with expansions. hoping to go one sick freak expansions so good when the road of legend that had the descent first edition, in this second edition. that's a need to buy.

who lives in the United States is still possible to buy in a shop easily. but who is not still have to pay high prices to import. Shipping and fees when I buy something only spent $ 50 in shipping. several boxes I break my legs and stick my pocket.

I understand your way of thinking, but you can also buy and use another mini for lieutenant

and FFG is here to do money, so , it may sometimes be frustrating

I also don't live in USA (france), and I know some places to buy import stuff not so pricey. So, why can't you ? And with the internet, with good seach, you can find good prices.

You are not forced to buy them, so if you don't want them, don't worry. It's cool. They are giving you a whole addition to the game. It's like mini campaigns, really. The twist with the game will make the game more worthy to play again and again. Come on. They aren't twisting our arms to by the expansions either. Should be we upset that they planed out the expansions as well without adding them into the core set? That's ridiculous.

You are not forced to buy them, so if you don't want them, don't worry. It's cool. They are giving you a whole addition to the game. It's like mini campaigns, really. The twist with the game will make the game more worthy to play again and again. Come on. They aren't twisting our arms to by the expansions either. Should be we upset that they planed out the expansions as well without adding them into the core set? That's ridiculous.

This is completely different from an expansion. An expansion is an add on to the base game, I still have a complete game if I choose not buy an expansion. However, in order to have a complete base game with all of the game pieces, I have to buy the miniatures. The original box did not advertise "46 of 54 miniatures you need included", it advertised 46 miniatures which I assumed was all you needed.

I realize this is now the norm for most publishers when selling any sort of game, whether it be a box game or a video game. However, I've always held in high regard the ones that stuck to the model of selling a complete game, and trying to make money off of true additional content. It just shocks me that FFG has sunk to the level of Electronic Arts.

You are not forced to buy them, so if you don't want them, don't worry. It's cool. They are giving you a whole addition to the game. It's like mini campaigns, really. The twist with the game will make the game more worthy to play again and again. Come on. They aren't twisting our arms to by the expansions either. Should be we upset that they planed out the expansions as well without adding them into the core set? That's ridiculous.

This is completely different from an expansion. An expansion is an add on to the base game, I still have a complete game if I choose not buy an expansion. However, in order to have a complete base game with all of the game pieces, I have to buy the miniatures. The original box did not advertise "46 of 54 miniatures you need included", it advertised 46 miniatures which I assumed was all you needed.

I realize this is now the norm for most publishers when selling any sort of game, whether it be a box game or a video game. However, I've always held in high regard the ones that stuck to the model of selling a complete game, and trying to make money off of true additional content. It just shocks me that FFG has sunk to the level of Electronic Arts.

Sunk? As pointed out before, they did this with D1 as well. We should have expected it! Have you ever played Pathfinder? You have to buy a book (and more then one book in time). And then dice. And then a mini for your character. They are not sold together for the sake of money for them and for verity for the player. I don't think this too much different aside from the fact that the LT are all the same.

I am also under the strong assumption that they PLANED on making the LT minis only, but then heard an outcry from the form community. OL wanted a hero for themselves to buff instead of or with their current deck. So FFG said, let's give it to them with their minis! And so they did it, and they are proud to make their fans happy, and we all feel good about it. Or so we should.

Has this become a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" kind of moment?

I guess they should have added a familiar mini to and not a token. So you guys would have a "complete" game.

You are not forced to buy them, so if you don't want them, don't worry. It's cool. They are giving you a whole addition to the game. It's like mini campaigns, really. The twist with the game will make the game more worthy to play again and again. Come on. They aren't twisting our arms to by the expansions either. Should be we upset that they planed out the expansions as well without adding them into the core set? That's ridiculous.

This is completely different from an expansion. An expansion is an add on to the base game, I still have a complete game if I choose not buy an expansion. However, in order to have a complete base game with all of the game pieces, I have to buy the miniatures. The original box did not advertise "46 of 54 miniatures you need included", it advertised 46 miniatures which I assumed was all you needed.

I realize this is now the norm for most publishers when selling any sort of game, whether it be a box game or a video game. However, I've always held in high regard the ones that stuck to the model of selling a complete game, and trying to make money off of true additional content. It just shocks me that FFG has sunk to the level of Electronic Arts.

Sunk? As pointed out before, they did this with D1 as well. We should have expected it! Have you ever played Pathfinder? You have to buy a book (and more then one book in time). And then dice. And then a mini for your character. They are not sold together for the sake of money for them and for verity for the player. I don't think this too much different aside from the fact that the LT are all the same.

I am also under the strong assumption that they PLANED on making the LT minis only, but then heard an outcry from the form community. OL wanted a hero for themselves to buff instead of or with their current deck. So FFG said, let's give it to them with their minis! And so they did it, and they are proud to make their fans happy, and we all feel good about it. Or so we should.

Has this become a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" kind of moment?

I don't know what you're talking about as far as D1. I played D1 and it had every thing I needed to play the game (what miniatures was it missing???).

As far as the comparison to RPGs. The only thing you need to play an RPG is dice and paper and pencil. Paper and pencil are a bit of a given that people are going to have, and they typically have a disclaimer on the book stating that dice aren't included and that certain other necessary books are needed to play.

Say what you may, you're not going to convince me that this wasn't a cheap marketing ploy to sell more product. There's absolutely no reason not to include the necessary miniatures in the base game. Want to sell bonus little extra content cards to go with them? Fine, do it, but let them stand on their own merit. Don't force me to buy it, just so I have real miniatures to use for key characters when playing the base game.

If you played Road to Legend, you should know that ALL of the lieutenants (about 17 with seas of blood) were sold separatedly in pewter around 9$ each, and the expansion gives instead of minis only tokens (same logic as descent 2)

So, this is not from today. Now, if you don't want to buy them, don't !

If it's not cheaper enough, too bad for you.

Now, if you think the base game should have the minis, somewhere, I think I too wished for less lieutenant and minis inside instead.

But, whatever, they could have sold the minis like they do now, and they would be cheaper. Furthermore, you can't really blame FFG to try to make money. Or, in the first place, don't buy the game 'cause it's "uncomplete"

Let's see the chronology about the lieutenant figures

1) FGG does only provide cardboard tokens for the lieutenants in the base game.

2) Many were asking for lieutenant figures - there was speculation about their being in metal (as the D1 lieutenants were) or in plastic

3) FFG then produces them with nice additional options.

This opens to different attitudes :

a) Those who asked must be reasonably happy.

b) Some who didn't ask may be interested - especially as there are those plot cards added.

c) Others don't care.

d) Some just see another occasion to accuse FFG of unproven hidden motives ("I tell you, there is a conspiration!") and complain about the price of optional items that are not essential to have fun playing the game.

Now, let's have a real life perspective : Our world goes spinning around, with 70'000 people (= 20 Twin Towers) silently dying of hunger every day .

So, whether one only plays with the basic game or adds the new lieutenants, we are in the domain of futility anyway.

Whining about the price of the lieutenants is at the best a storm in a teacup.

d) Some just see another occasion to accuse FFG of unproven hidden motives ("I tell you, there is a conspiration!") and complain about the price of optional items that are not essential to have fun playing the game.

For me,

Lieutenants pack increases the overall fun of the OL ...

In the current state: OL fun <<< Heroes fun

I really don't see why anyone thinks they have to buy these minis in order to play the game, you don't. Sure, the tokens aren't as nice as the minis, but you can still play the game with the tokens. If you absolutely feel you can't play the game with just the tokens, that's on you.

Look at it this way. No doubt each game has a production budget that they can't go over or they will either have to give up the game or, raise the price, which could cost them sales. It's likely that actually including the LT minis could have simply cost too much, and the only way to give us LT minis was to sell them separately.

Again, nobody is twisting your arms to get the minis, like any expansion, you can still play the full game without them if you feel they are too expensive.

Two points

1. Ffg are super transparent they posted the manual before the game came out, we all knew what was and wasn't in it. All the talk of them planning this don't buy the game if you didn't want it or use the cardboard.

2. my one worry is they go out of stock before I buy them all.

Lt minis are not often on the board. These are premium adds-on. Moreover it´s really easy to proxy them, with d&d cheap minis or something else, except for the fat goblin perhaps.

I'm not convinced by plot decks because they add an unnecessary mechanic to the core rules with threat points. That kind of change the Spirit of the game to me. On the other hand i get that OL player also wants some love as plot deck powers looks like heroic skills, but i prefer as an OL a new base deck (lab of ruins) and new spécial decks (any extension) than rules that modify the foundation of both sides objectives. I agreed to use rumor cards to enhance the campaign feel, and secret rooms too because it´s funnier than an X loot card and because dungeoncrawling and looting is something that lacked a bit in second édition.

Even if i was interested, one plot deck use per campaign requires you A LOT of replay to fairly use them.

So no LT for me.

Cheers.

I'm not sure what the rage is about these miniature prices. I pre-ordered all six for $6-6.67 each.

https://www.miniaturemarket.com/

Honestly, with all the content each comes with, I feel it's a great deal.

i wanna that cost 5 dollars. for one mini and 10 cards.

but 9.95 dollars kill me.

you may find it at 6$ maybe on the net, search well

I can tell who has played Games Workshop games and who hasn't

6$ for a mini? OMG that's cheap.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440271a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

LOL

I know why I never wanted to play GW games.

i wanna that cost 5 dollars. for one mini and 10 cards.

but 9.95 dollars kill me.

That $9.95 is the MSRP, you won't have to pay that much. Maybe about 6 bucks each at most (except for a large figure like Valyndra, maybe 10 -15 bucks)

Just an additional word on the costs of producing plastic vs. metal minis - The initial outlay for the steel molds for plastics as opposed to the rubber molds for metals is indeed quite huge, some thousands of dollars (average steel mold for injection molded plastics can cost ten thousand dollars or more) as opposed to the rubber spin casting molds (a couple of hundred bucks each maybe). The thing is, the steel molds last forever, and the plastic material used in the casting process is cheaper per ounce than metal, whereas the rubber molds used in metal casting wear out quite easily and need to be remade regularly. That's why, even though the molds used in plastic casting are so very expensive, in the long run plastics are actually cheaper to produce per unit, that metal ones, which is why plastics are better economically suited to large numbers of casting runs than metal. I suspect this is why FFG went with plastic LT figures this time, they likely figured they'd sell more figures (due to lower cost making them able to include the cards, all at a lower price point) and make a bigger profit with the plastics

I'm just curious (because I really am ignorant of industrial pricing in China) but are those prices applicable to what production costs are in China, where the minis are made according to the last In-Flight FFG report at GenCon? (Great question by whoever asked it by the way!) At any rate I will be buying these as many have suggested, kind of on a quest by quest basis (With certain vampiric members of certain families who will remain unamed purchased LAST thank you very much....yeah there's a lot of hate there.....ever since RuneBound actually....) and I feel that they aren't overpriced at all for the simple fact that there are a LOT of Descent fans willing to pay that price. Not to go all objectivist here but FFG has something of worth (or it wouldn't sell.) and they can charge whatever they like. in a way I'd rather NOT know what they actually cost to make even including all costs such as design, admin and everything else. If I knew that total for a lot of my games then I would probably feel they were overpriced.