I've been looking for some clarification on the use of Dark Curse in regard to target locks, and especially with Han Solo re-rolls. Dark Curse states that there are no re-rolls against him when defending. This must cancel out Han Solo's actions against Dark Curse. This must also mean that target locks aren't possible against D.C. Is this the general nature of the rule? It keeps coming up in my games and I'm not sure about it.

You can acquire and use Target Locks against Dark Curse, but neither Target Locks nor Han Solo's ability will allow you to reroll dice against him.

So, if you needed to have a TL in order to fire, for example you have a proton torpedo, then it is perfectly legal to acquire and spend the Target Lock in order to fire the torpedo since you won't be rerolling anything. Also, the Proton Torpedo ability still functions since it doesn't actually require the expenditure of a focus. Similarly Marksman will still work, but Deadeye may not (you cannot expend that focus token to fire a missile, so it would only work with Homing Missiles since you wouldn't need to actually spend it).

So yes, TL are legal, but you couldn't use them to gain rerolls.

I believe you could spend a target lock to fire a missile or torpedo against him, but not to reroll dice on an attack. And since you can't 'spend focus' on an attack against DC, it was somewhat bafflingly clarified that he's immune to blaster turrets, which require a focus token to fire.

He does mess up ADVANCED torpedoes pretty badly, however, since a bunch of eyeballs don't do a lot of good if you can't spend a focus converting them.

You can acquire and use Target Locks against Dark Curse, but neither Target Locks nor Han Solo's ability will allow you to reroll dice against him.

So, if you needed to have a TL in order to fire, for example you have a proton torpedo, then it is perfectly legal to acquire and spend the Target Lock in order to fire the torpedo since you won't be rerolling anything. Also, the Proton Torpedo ability still functions since it doesn't actually require the expenditure of a focus. Similarly Marksman will still work, but Deadeye may not (you cannot expend that focus token to fire a missile, so it would only work with Homing Missiles since you wouldn't need to actually spend it).

So yes, TL are legal, but you couldn't use them to gain rerolls.

Thanks, this guy has been causing me all kinds of trouble lately. Looks like it will continue.

No spending focus tokens

No re-rolling attack dice

I concur with the gents above regarding target locks for the purpose of using secondary weapons.

Dark Curse is awesome. Unfortunately, he suffers from the same issue as Luke: defensive abilities are difficult to capitalize on. Opposing fighters will simply pick a softer target, and leave dark curse for last.

That's actually fairly easy to capitalize on since it allows you to play Dark Curse or Luke more aggressively than you would pilots in the same ship without the defensive buff.

3 hit points is fragile. How much more aggressive can you be?

Once wave 3 hits Dark Curse will be more attractive for two reasons. 1. The proliferation of re-roll and focus producing pilots and upgrades and 2. The ability for Imperials to take a full list of non 3 hp, harder to kill ships (shuttle, bomber, adv tie will be more viable when secondary weapons get buffed, bounty hunter).

Dark Curse will be stellar in lists where he is a tempting target.

Dark Curse' name is still not allowed be be said in my home.

He Who Must be Named?

I assume you can also not use missiles with Deadeye against him.

I assume you can also not use missiles with Deadeye against him.

Not according to the FAQs recent ruling.

Well, technically you can. As long as you are using a missile that does not require you to spend your Target Lock/focus, which as of now is only the Homing Missile, you can use Deadeye to satisfy the Target Lock requirement.

Good point, KineticOperator. Homing Missile with Deadeye should work. But really, if you are shooting at Dark Curse with a missile, you're doing it wrong, I think. It's a rather expensive gamble.

Ion Cannon his ship right off the board.

He does mess up ADVANCED torpedoes pretty badly, however, since a bunch of eyeballs don't do a lot of good if you can't spend a focus converting them.

Unless it's coupled with Marksmanship. You can use that against DC since you're not spending a token.

I believe you could spend a target lock to fire a missile or torpedo against him, but not to reroll dice on an attack. And since you can't 'spend focus' on an attack against DC, it was somewhat bafflingly clarified that he's immune to blaster turrets, which require a focus token to fire.

You are absolutely correct on that one and it is an absolutely catastrophically awful ruling by FFG. I would be okay with deadeye not working, but making him immune to blaster turrets is ridiculous fluffwise plus balance wise. Congratulations, your 16 point ship just countered each and every blaster turret based list single handedly, especially if they're on HWKs.

FFG please change this ruling it makes no sense in any way, and on top of that it's disqualifying Blaster turrets for competitive play!

You are absolutely correct on that one and it is an absolutely catastrophically awful ruling by FFG. I would be okay with deadeye not working, but making him immune to blaster turrets is ridiculous fluffwise plus balance wise. Congratulations, your 16 point ship just countered each and every blaster turret based list single handedly, especially if they're on HWKs.

FFG please change this ruling it makes no sense in any way, and on top of that it's disqualifying Blaster turrets for competitive play!

I don't know, I guess I'm good either way. For whatever reason you can't focus on Dark Curse. I definitely don't mind when I see him against a HWK-290. A fighter taking down a squad of freighters single handedly; works for me 16 points or not.

Besides, for me, I prefer more balanced squads. I know its not that way with everyone, I'm sure some really want a squad of nothing but HWK-290 w/Blaster Turrets. But there's nothing wrong with half the squad using and Ion Cannon either.

Its just preference. But I can play with it. I'm sure there are other squad combinations that will seem lopsided. I've not tried it but what are the chances of a TIE swarm against an HSF squad? Some may think a ship like Kyle Katarn w/Modly Cow Title and Recon Specialist is a but much. But hey. It's just one ship.

Besides, like I said, a fighter single handedly taking down a squad of freighters sounds about right. Where's their support? I'm fine with the ruling, forces more balance so I can't complain, its just one pilot.

I believe you could spend a target lock to fire a missile or torpedo against him, but not to reroll dice on an attack. And since you can't 'spend focus' on an attack against DC, it was somewhat bafflingly clarified that he's immune to blaster turrets, which require a focus token to fire.

You are absolutely correct on that one and it is an absolutely catastrophically awful ruling by FFG. I would be okay with deadeye not working, but making him immune to blaster turrets is ridiculous fluffwise plus balance wise. Congratulations, your 16 point ship just countered each and every blaster turret based list single handedly, especially if they're on HWKs.

FFG please change this ruling it makes no sense in any way, and on top of that it's disqualifying Blaster turrets for competitive play!

Step 1: Take out everything else.

Step 2: primary weapons, even with nothing but HWKs something will get through.

Really that should be the standard anti Dark Curse strategy anyway. He's far too slippery to waste shots one if you can aim at something else.

While I agree on it not making a lick of sense from a fluff standpoint. It's not imbalanced. Inconvenient sure.

Von is right on. Just ignore him till last. We are talking about a 16 point 3 hull tie. He's just not that great unless you build a list where he is high on your opponents kill order. He's balanced, I assure you. If anything he costs too much for what he does in the current meta. Maybe, MAYBE in wave 3 he will get play time. Right now he rides the pine.

I believe you could spend a target lock to fire a missile or torpedo against him, but not to reroll dice on an attack. And since you can't 'spend focus' on an attack against DC, it was somewhat bafflingly clarified that he's immune to blaster turrets, which require a focus token to fire.

You are absolutely correct on that one and it is an absolutely catastrophically awful ruling by FFG. I would be okay with deadeye not working, but making him immune to blaster turrets is ridiculous fluffwise plus balance wise. Congratulations, your 16 point ship just countered each and every blaster turret based list single handedly, especially if they're on HWKs.

FFG please change this ruling it makes no sense in any way, and on top of that it's disqualifying Blaster turrets for competitive play!

Step 1: Take out everything else.

Step 2: primary weapons, even with nothing but HWKs something will get through.

Really that should be the standard anti Dark Curse strategy anyway. He's far too slippery to waste shots one if you can aim at something else.

While I agree on it not making a lick of sense from a fluff standpoint. It's not imbalanced. Inconvenient sure.

The other fact is that you would in reality not have 4 HWK's left at that point most certainly. Also HWK's can not K-Turn so DC can outdance them at will and you would not get that many shots per turn.

The question is why make 4 HWK lists obsolete?

Freighter or not they have their cost of 16 minimum and if we're honest they cost 20 minimum as without a turret they are worthless. If we look at Tie Fighters, even Howlrunner does not cost 20 points and is an awesome Ship even without upgrades. If FFG doesn't want you to spam HWKs, fine, but why is it possibke to make spam lists with virtually any other ship then? And quite effective ones too!

And the "fighter vs 4 freighters" argument is rjust invalid because it is a fluff argument in a game with competitive gaming. Balance is key and this is not balanced. Besides why could ships not shoot a turret weapon at an enemy at all? Explain that fluffwise!

The question is why make 4 HWK lists obsolete?

Freighter or not they have their cost of 16 minimum and if we're honest they cost 20 minimum as without a turret they are worthless. If we look at Tie Fighters, even Howlrunner does not cost 20 points and is an awesome Ship even without upgrades. If FFG doesn't want you to spam HWKs, fine, but why is it possibke to make spam lists with virtually any other ship then? And quite effective ones too!

And the "fighter vs 4 freighters" argument is rjust invalid because it is a fluff argument in a game with competitive gaming. Balance is key and this is not balanced. Besides why could ships not shoot a turret weapon at an enemy at all? Explain that fluffwise!

Well, the matter of fact is that 4 HWK list is not 'obsolete'.

4 HWK, all of them with blaster turret vs Dark Curse is your problem. That is, a very specific build vs one single specific ship. You obviously are concerned because your build has a prominent achilles' heel. But ultimately, it would be your fault if you insisted on taking that build knowing that Dark Curse is roaming out there.

But asking to rewrite/remove Dark Curse's ability because you want to 'play safe' is also unfair. Instead, equip one or 2 ion turrets, bring Jan Ors to increase the HWK's primary weapon power, take Expose for the same purpose.... Or simply assume the risk of encontering Dark Curse out there.

That said, Dark Curse is known for his wild, unpredictable flying style. Even the most modern tracking computers are not fully able to keep pace with his savage maneuvers. Also, he has an uncanny ability to find blind spots on ships, exploiting any dead angles in which turrets are unable to fire at him. There is your fluff.

[...]

The question is why make 4 HWK lists obsolete?

Freighter or not they have their cost of 16 minimum and if we're honest they cost 20 minimum as without a turret they are worthless. If we look at Tie Fighters, even Howlrunner does not cost 20 points and is an awesome Ship even without upgrades. If FFG doesn't want you to spam HWKs, fine, but why is it possibke to make spam lists with virtually any other ship then? And quite effective ones too!

Different builds have different abilities. Where some are weak, others are strong.

I'm not sure if your asking for all builds of the same points to always be in perfect balance but in reality that's not going to happen. Not every build will be balanced against every other build. Why is HSF so powerful against some builds? Why isn't TIE Advanced squads the perfect build against everything else? Does a TIE swarm of Academy Pilots win 50% of the time against a HSF squad?

My comments about fighter vrs freighter was just one way of justifying why it works the way it does.

Well, the matter of fact is that 4 HWK list is not 'obsolete'.

4 HWK, all of them with blaster turret vs Dark Curse is your problem. That is, a very specific build vs one single specific ship. You obviously are concerned because your build has a prominent achilles' heel. But ultimately, it would be your fault if you insisted on taking that build knowing that Dark Curse is roaming out there.

But asking to rewrite/remove Dark Curse's ability because you want to 'play safe' is also unfair. Instead, equip one or 2 ion turrets, bring Jan Ors to increase the HWK's primary weapon power, take Expose for the same purpose.... Or simply assume the risk of encontering Dark Curse out there.

That said, Dark Curse is known for his wild, unpredictable flying style. Even the most modern tracking computers are not fully able to keep pace with his savage maneuvers. Also, he has an uncanny ability to find blind spots on ships, exploiting any dead angles in which turrets are unable to fire at him. There is your fluff.

I agree with Jehn Menasis:

What he said

He's one ('wild, unpredictable flying') pilot. That doesn't really change the game.

Well you say that certain lists excel against others, that's true and that Dark curse is the Achilles heel of HWKs. In fact same works for Y-Wing builds with Blaster Turrets because their 2 attack is not really gonna save them either against DC. But its a lot better than with HWKs that have to rely solely on their turrets for damage.

Dark Curse sees a lot of playtime where i come from because he also counters Han Solo. My problem with his ability is that it messes too much with other very expensive models and completely counters them. In case of Han it's still feasible to damage him but with the blaster turrets i find it a ridiculous ruling. Achilles heel is really an understatement in that case. For all he does, i find him really undercosted. I know a lot of people prefer Backstabber for the points but nonetheless completely making a build obsolete for 16 points is just too much. You can bring whatever you want else, if you have DC you will not lose against a blaster turret list, thats for sure!

Nowhere else in the game there is a case where you can not fire at all with a certain weapon at a certain enemy if range and angle are respected. Why in the world do they make a case here? You already can't use rerolls or TL and the blaster turret is restrictive enough with its requirement to fire at all. This makes it pretty obsolete before wave 3 even hits. Advanced torps do have pretty much the same problem against him. And all for a 16 points wave 1 ship? I am certainly not a fan of power creep in games like 40k where for a good time if you looked for the strongest army it always was the newest one. But what FFG does in the errata here is shoot themselves in the leg because there will be people not buying 3-4 HWKs but only one because they will have such a problem against Curse.

Just imagine if they would bring out an errata saying the new proton bombs or any other piece of equipment just don't work against this or that ship for some reason. Would you use it in a tournament just to get easily countered? Well i wouldn't and that is why i find this a really bad development of the otherwise very good game.

Also fluffwise wild flying maybe explains why you can hardly target lock him but not why any weapon can't shoot at all. I mean you can always try to hit and be lucky enough. And if they went that much with fluff, an Academy pilot would hatdly be able to hit An Ace like Wedge at all, but in this game he can shoot him just as easily as he can shoot a Rookie Pilot.

That said, Dark Curse is known for his wild, unpredictable flying style. Even the most modern tracking computers are not fully able to keep pace with his savage maneuvers. Also, he has an uncanny ability to find blind spots on ships, exploiting any dead angles in which turrets are unable to fire at him. There is your fluff.

And... maybe the Blaster Turret is very difficult to manage which is why it used Focus instead of Target Lock. Dark Curse is known for 'his wild, unpredictable flying style' and the Blaster Turret is a difficult weapon.

Either way its just one Pilot... besides the Imperials need something to offset Kyle and Moldy Cow.