Advanced Sensors lets you perform an action before moving. Push the Limit lets you take a second action after performing the first one, but you get stress. I'd assume that a following Green maneuver would clear the stress and a Red would give you a second stress. Does that sound right? Or would a Red maneuver be canceled?

A following green maneuver would clear the stress from Push the limit.

A following red maneuver while you have stress would be illegal, and your opponent will choose from your dial any other non-red maneuver for your ship to execute (presumably sending you to some nearby obstacle or hindering the movement of your other ships). Logically, you won't gain another stress.

The only way to avoid that fate would be to use the elite pilot talent 'Adrenaline Rush' to convert your illegal 'red' maneuver to a legal 'white' one. However, here is a caveat: The rules as written are not totally clear about this interpretation, and there's still debate about if this is the correct usage of the card. A Game's Dev on the Gen-Con hinted that this was indeed the correct use, but nothing has been officially adressed yet, so use this advice at your own discretion.

Jehan is correct, though you wouldn't normally be able to have both Push the Limit and Adrenaline Rush as EPTs on the same pilot...

Forgive me adding to an old thread but can I ask, does PtL have to be immediately after the action? Could I use advanced sesnsors to boost, take the move THEN get another action and the stress? I ask because I might have a red move on my dial.

Every ability in X-wing must be resolved as soon as it's triggering condition is met. You can't hold anything for later. In this case, it means that you must use PtL (or not) after performing the action from Advanced Sensors, so both actions will resolve before you perform your maneuver.

Makes sense, but I've asked the rule query people just to ensure this is official.

So out of curiosity, why bother posting it to the forums at all then, if you're just going to ignore the response and send it to FFG anyway? I mean, I can accept that you're not going to search for the eight hundred other times this topic has come up, whether here, BGG, AFM, or TC, that's fine - I don't mind helping. But you necro an old post to ask a well-trodden question without looking for it, AND waste the time of those who try to help by refusing to accept the (universally consistent) answer?

Very nice.

So out of curiosity, why bother posting it to the forums at all then, if you're just going to ignore the response and send it to FFG anyway? I mean, I can accept that you're not going to search for the eight hundred other times this topic has come up, whether here, BGG, AFM, or TC, that's fine - I don't mind helping. But you necro an old post to ask a well-trodden question without looking for it, AND waste the time of those who try to help by refusing to accept the (universally consistent) answer?

Very nice.

Most likely because rule by community consensus does not equal rule by official decree. While the community at large has imparted their general support of this particular interpretation, it shouldn't preclude someone from getting the word from FFG directly if they want. Nor should someone be chastised for doing so. This is a public forum after all, and should support inquisitive players, not discourage them.

So out of curiosity, why bother posting it to the forums at all then, if you're just going to ignore the response and send it to FFG anyway? I mean, I can accept that you're not going to search for the eight hundred other times this topic has come up, whether here, BGG, AFM, or TC, that's fine - I don't mind helping. But you necro an old post to ask a well-trodden question without looking for it, AND waste the time of those who try to help by refusing to accept the (universally consistent) answer?

Very nice.

Most likely because rule by community consensus does not equal rule by official decree. While the community at large has imparted their general support of this particular interpretation, it shouldn't preclude someone from getting the word from FFG directly if they want. Nor should someone be chastised for doing so. This is a public forum after all, and should support inquisitive players, not discourage them.

I have no problem at all in someone preferring FFG's word over the community's, and if you look closely at no point do I say anything negative about asking FFG for an official word.

What I take issue to is wasting our time asking a question when you're not going to accept the answer. What's the point? If you don't trust the community, fine - great. But if you don't trust the community, don't ask the community in the first place. Any number of us spend a ton of time here answering questions that people could ask FFG directly, or could research for themselves if they put in the effort. Wasting our time asking a question that you're going to ignore the answer to is rather inconsiderate.

I've never discouraged people asking questions, even in cases where the answer they're looking for is on the same page or directly in the FAQ. If you take a look at my responses, I answer everything I can get my hands on, usually taking the copy to copy direct quotes from the FAQ or dig up old threads to link to previous discussions/email rulings. So I think I do a pretty good job of not discouraging inquisitive players.

But if you're not interested in our answers, don't waste our time by asking us the question here.

So out of curiosity, why bother posting it to the forums at all then, if you're just going to ignore the response and send it to FFG anyway? I mean, I can accept that you're not going to search for the eight hundred other times this topic has come up, whether here, BGG, AFM, or TC, that's fine - I don't mind helping. But you necro an old post to ask a well-trodden question without looking for it, AND waste the time of those who try to help by refusing to accept the (universally consistent) answer?

Very nice.

Most likely because rule by community consensus does not equal rule by official decree. While the community at large has imparted their general support of this particular interpretation, it shouldn't preclude someone from getting the word from FFG directly if they want. Nor should someone be chastised for doing so. This is a public forum after all, and should support inquisitive players, not discourage them.

I have no problem at all in someone preferring FFG's word over the community's, and if you look closely at no point do I say anything negative about asking FFG for an official word.

What I take issue to is wasting our time asking a question when you're not going to accept the answer. What's the point? If you don't trust the community, fine - great. But if you don't trust the community, don't ask the community in the first place. Any number of us spend a ton of time here answering questions that people could ask FFG directly, or could research for themselves if they put in the effort. Wasting our time asking a question that you're going to ignore the answer to is rather inconsiderate.

I've never discouraged people asking questions, even in cases where the answer they're looking for is on the same page or directly in the FAQ. If you take a look at my responses, I answer everything I can get my hands on, usually taking the copy to copy direct quotes from the FAQ or dig up old threads to link to previous discussions/email rulings. So I think I do a pretty good job of not discouraging inquisitive players.

But if you're not interested in our answers, don't waste our time by asking us the question here.

You're an active, supportive member here, B. I've gleaned plenty of helpful tips and insight from your replies in many posts across a number of the topics in these forums. I'm not calling your supportive nature into question here as a whole. In this case, however, the context of your sarcastic "Very nice." response and telling a player their actions waste the community's time aren't exactly supportive. I doubt the player's intent was to generate discussion on his question and follow up with the same question to FFG to spite everyone. Most likely this was the most directly accessible source of instant gratification they had available, and fielding their question here first made sense. I'd certainly follow up with FFG about some matter I felt the general discussion hadn't answered to my satisfaction. Why shouldn't someone see what the community thinks first?

If you don't want to waste your time answering the same question for the 801st time, you don't have to. Cut the guy a break, yo.

Again, I don't have a problem answering the question for the 801st time. None at all.

But there are two possibilities here: First, he knew beforehand that he wasn't going to take the community opinion, in which case it was a waste of time. Second, he didn't get the answer he wanted, so it was time to go shopping for a different answer, which not only wastes our time but is pretty insulting to the community.

I don't feel the need to be supportive in either case. I have no problem spending a ton of time here trying to help answer even the simplest questions, but I expect a minimal amount of respect for the effort people put in to help. Posting questions you have no intention of accepting the answers to is a waste of everyone's time, and not the least bit considerate.

Again, I don't have a problem answering the question for the 801st time. None at all.

Until that person seeks a second opinion on your answer?

But there are two possibilities here: First, he knew beforehand that he wasn't going to take the community opinion, in which case it was a waste of time. Second, he didn't get the answer he wanted, so it was time to go shopping for a different answer, which not only wastes our time but is pretty insulting to the community.

What about the possibility that the discussion left aspects unanswered or unclear, such that they felt FFG (or more specifically "the rule query people") would be the ones to ask?

I don't feel the need to be supportive in either case. I have no problem spending a ton of time here trying to help answer even the simplest questions, but I expect a minimal amount of respect for the effort people put in to help. Posting questions you have no intention of accepting the answers to is a waste of everyone's time, and not the least bit considerate.

Your making assumptions about their intent based on two posts here, man. If they'd simply left their last post as "Makes sense." I don't think you'd have any issue with it. That they revealed they were following up with FFG instead of taking the community's word for it is the problem.

DoctorMikeReddy, if you'd care to illuminate your full intent when you posited your question to begin with, I think it would help alleviate some of the pressure on this.

I think Buhallin has way more patience than I do when it comes to answering people's "simple" questions. The PTL question is a rather straight forward answer if you understood the general rules of this game and read the card text. The fact that the DoctorMikeReddy didn't show much respect for the B's answer (which is correct, btw), and instead blew it off and said he's gonna asked FFG anyway because this forum is "unofficial" is just disrespectful and wastes people's time.

Until that person seeks a second opinion on your answer?

No. If he wanted a second opinion on my answer he could have asked Google, who would helpfully have pointed him to a TC post (where I know he's active) asking exactly the same question, with exactly the same answer. He could have also asked me for support of my answer, and I could have pointed him to a half-dozen other times this was discussed. I would have done so, happily. If he'd bothered to actually debate the point, I could have provided several rulings and rules which support the position the community has come to. He did none of that.

This is not a personal issue. I'd find it just as rude if it had been ziggy or dvor or Vanor or CW or Jehan who had wasted their time. I really don't care where he goes in the community, whether it's me or someone else, but if he's not going to trust the community, don't ask the community in the first place.

FWIW, the answer is "no." If you take "after you perform an action" to mean "at some future point in time, after you have performed this action, but, you know, whenever. I've got nothing planned," the entire timing structure of the game falls to pieces in a hurry.

I will freely admit that the timing interactions between things that are 'after' versus things that are 'immediately after,' since immediately is generally understood but never clearly defined to mean "also after, but sooner after than just plan old vanilla after" are sometimes a bit fuzzy.

That said, the fact is that if you take 'after' to mean anything other than right after, nothing in the game works anymore and it becomes TEGWAR with miniatures.

Until that person seeks a second opinion on your answer?

No. If he wanted a second opinion on my answer he could have asked Google, who would helpfully have pointed him to a TC post (where I know he's active) asking exactly the same question, with exactly the same answer. He could have also asked me for support of my answer, and I could have pointed him to a half-dozen other times this was discussed. I would have done so, happily. If he'd bothered to actually debate the point, I could have provided several rulings and rules which support the position the community has come to. He did none of that.

This is not a personal issue. I'd find it just as rude if it had been ziggy or dvor or Vanor or CW or Jehan who had wasted their time. I really don't care where he goes in the community, whether it's me or someone else, but if he's not going to trust the community, don't ask the community in the first place.

Fair enough.

At 40 posts, perhaps they've not interacted enough with folks around here to feel they can trust their answers straight away. Perhaps, when they hear back from FFG and the answer mirrors that of the community, they'll trust the community more and not double check the next time. Hopefully this will still be a community they'll want to interact with and ask questions of in the future without fearing they've offended or disrespected anyone, or broken any community protocols.

Does either one of you seriously think you're going to argue the other one into submission here?
Jefe clearly feels Buhalin was rude to the new guy. Buhalin felt slighted that the new guy came in, asked for help, and then announced he was going to go ask somebody who would actually know.

Neither one of you is right or wrong here, and I think you've both made your stances pretty clear.

Everyone involved probably could have handled this a bit better, let's be honest.

Except me. I am fantastic.

Does either one of you seriously think you're going to argue the other one into submission here?

In no way was this my objective, nor did I get the impression that it was Buhalin's. I think this discussion was perfectly civil and meaningful.

Both sides represented their respective perspectives and I'm all good with that.

Yes, CW, you're quite fanatic.

So... back on topic here. If I were to use Ibby with PTL and AdvS, I could Barrel Roll, and Target Lock, gain a stress from using PTL, and then clear the stress all on the same turn by moving 1 forward?

Yes.

As far as I know yes, yes you can.

Sho can.

I have to say that the irate responses here have reduced the likelihood that I will ask for any opinions here on rules. Everyone is entitled to their opinion here I guess, and everyone should be free to seek a second (or third, fourth ...) opinion if they want. They may be looking to try and understand their own thinking by requesting others' opinions, to try and get another perspective. Don't respond if you don't want to, but why get personal if you are not deemed to be the sole arbiter of opinion.

I have to say that the irate responses here have reduced the likelihood that I will ask for any opinions here on rules. Everyone is entitled to their opinion here I guess, and everyone should be free to seek a second (or third, fourth ...) opinion if they want. They may be looking to try and understand their own thinking by requesting others' opinions, to try and get another perspective. Don't respond if you don't want to, but why get personal if you are not deemed to be the sole arbiter of opinion.

Since this is obviously directed at me, I'll say again that if you care about our opinion, you're welcome to ask it. Honestly, this is one of the friendliest rules arenas I've ever been involved with. You'll rarely ever get "That's in the FAQ, go look it up" or "Why don't you read for yourself?" or "This is on the front page, why start a new thread?" responses.

But if you aren't going to care what anyone here has to say, if it's just going straight to FFG after you we take the time to answer, then I'm perfectly OK with you not wasting your time and ours posting looking for a response you're just going to ignore anyway. Worse, if you're just venue-shopping hoping someone will give you the answer you want, which is what I think happened here, you're VERY welcome to not post.

I'm not sure you really grasp what happened here, though. Nobody got upset because we weren't the sole arbiter - every one of us knows who that sole arbiter is, and there's a couple of Fs and a G in there. The problem is that Dr Reddy seems to have wanted the sole arbiter, and would only accept something from the sole arbiter (or would only accept the answer he didn't like from the sole arbiter) but wasted our time here anyway. Nobody has any illusions about who the final authority is, and nobody has the least heartburn with someone going to the final authority. And if he'd just been looking to understand his own thinking, then he would have laid out a potentially alternate case for the rules, and we'd have had a discussion.

So it seems like pretty much everything you list there didn't actually happen here.

<shrug> Don't know what to tell you. If you don't want to post here because I think you should show a minimal amount of respect for the efforts people put in here to help new players, then that's on you. But I think if you actually spend a little time interacting with the group here, you'll find that most questions are answered quickly and helpfully.

I think he did show you some respect, but then he decided to go somewhere else as well. Your response struck me as unfriendly (and lacking in respect to be honest). For all I know you may have a million helpful posts to your name, full of courtesy, but I am new to this and this is the first I am conscious of coming across. It struck me as unfriendly and off-putting so I said so (as I would in a physical community). Not trying to go to war or anything, perhaps the novelty of using a forum is affecting my view, but I just described what I saw, and I did find it off-putting. Sorry for that.