Let's Talk Augmentation

By seanpp, in Dark Heresy Second Edition Beta

It does have an impact, but not that much more than having a cybernetic limb.

And definitely not so mich, that it would take a slot where another thing doesnt.

The loss of a limb alone, along with the phantom pain and neural damage can be reason enough to lose a slot.

Okay, it's obvious it's your idea vs ours, and since we lack the actual hard knowledge of how this tech is supposed to work, it makes no sense trying to convince each other which explanation we just pulled out of our behinds makes more sense.

So let's just get down to things that we can actually gauge, like the effects it has on gameplay and setting. And here, your idea is plain horrible.

From the gameplay perspective, bionic replacements are, well, replacements. They may have some additional utility to them, but at their core, they make the difference between being able to keep playing a character and not being able to do so. This is quite important in a system where each hit is resolved on a big bad table of horrible things that's about half composed of you losing vital body parts. It's a ridiculous idea to prevent people from getting those replacements by any means, and it makes a mockery of the fate threshold - yes, I totally survived that shot, and could keep playing that character, but unfortunately the crit effect of missing my heart stays and I don't have enough Toughness to install a replacement, so I guess I'm dead anyway, or permanently bedridden. Yes, that's a great, fun way to handle things! On the other hand, augmetics are simply extra utility that you can put on your character. They're never vital to playing the character, just something cool you may want to have. Due to that, and because stacking too much gear that's always within reach and which cannot be taken away can be bad for gameplay, it makes sense to limit the number.

From the setting perspective, bionic replacements are either a religious observance or a simple matter of convenience. Unless you're an AdMech nut who obsessively replaces every bit of flesh with blessed metal, most Imperial subjects get bionics when they lose important body parts in the course of duty. The practice is exceedingly common and treated casually, and you have to stoop to the lowest rungs of outcast scum to find truly crippled people. On the other hand, augments are handed out much more sparingly, only to people who need them to perform their job, be it auger arrays for explorers and scientists or those creepy hands for scribes or whatever stuff Tech-Priests keep sewing onto their bodies in the pursuit of their god. AdMech is pretty much the only place where you'll find people installing extra augmetics simply because they can. From that perspective, it also doesn't make sense to restrict replacements in every way, and I've never read anything like that happening or even being alluded to in any source material. Guardsman loses hand fighting an ork, guardsman gets a new metal hand, end of story.

My idea is horrible for gameplay you say ?

In what kind of world do you life ?

If I take your interpretation I will just exchange all of my limbs right from the beginning voluntarily - because there is no penalty, just benefits. And if something like this situation occurs, I call a system broken.

You have to pass the influence rolls for that. And be out of action for 2d10-Tb days, per limb . And if you opt to have them installed manually? Risk a huge amount of damage that could well cripple you further.

If I let a proper chirurgeon take them off there will be no side effects.

Between missions, 2d10-Tbdays is no big deal.

And the influence roll will be done by the groups mechanicus - so also no big deal (if I am not the mechanicus myself).

And believe me - at least half of my players WILL do that.

Letting the AdMech player acquire limbs for other players, with surgery included, is questionable as hell. I sure as hell wouldn't allow it at my table. Manual installation? Sure. But you're not going to convince your AdMech connections to go to work on your Ministorum buddy no matter how hard you try.

The Admech Buddy will do this very likely, as he can bringholy steel into your body of weak flesh.

You ask a techpriest for help, because your flesh is so weak - of course he will help you out.

The Admech just gets the cybernetics, as he is chirurgeon himself, he installs them without needing a connection.

However, in my games I will treat cyberlimbs as slot-taking cybernetics. Everything else will lead to abusing and exploiting players.

And you think it's unreasonable for your chirugeon to botch some of those tests? The penalties for failure are fairly high. Also, I don't know many GMs who would allow rolling to acquire a whole body worth of metal bits at once.

A chirirgeon who has Ag 50, Medicae +10, some equipment & fate points ?

The chances of failing are rather small. I mean, after all, this is one of his main fields of expertise.

My idea is horrible for gameplay you say ?

In what kind of world do you life ?

If I take your interpretation I will just exchange all of my limbs right from the beginning voluntarily - because there is no penalty, just benefits. And if something like this situation occurs, I call a system broken.

Yes, your idea is absolutely, utterly horrible. Rules are there for people to have fun. It's not fun to not be able to turn yourself into an awesome cyborg when guys who do nothing but turn themselves into awesome cyborgs are an iconic part of the game, and it's totally not fun to be forced to retire a character after an unfortunate limb loss because you installed one augment too many earlier. Not fun = horrible. End of story.

Also, your idea of brokenness is utterly laughable.

The simple fix is in the hands of the GM. If a GM doesn't like his players becoming living cyborgs and feels there needs to be balance then don't allow fate points when going through the process of bionic installation. Make it more of a risk. The rules help as a guideline but it isn't the law in all situations.

My idea is horrible for gameplay you say ?

In what kind of world do you life ?

If I take your interpretation I will just exchange all of my limbs right from the beginning voluntarily - because there is no penalty, just benefits. And if something like this situation occurs, I call a system broken.

Yes, your idea is absolutely, utterly horrible. Rules are there for people to have fun. It's not fun to not be able to turn yourself into an awesome cyborg when guys who do nothing but turn themselves into awesome cyborgs are an iconic part of the game, and it's totally not fun to be forced to retire a character after an unfortunate limb loss because you installed one augment too many earlier. Not fun = horrible. End of story.

Also, your idea of brokenness is utterly laughable.

Yeah - if it makes you feel better to think so, keep it that way.