So what do you see as the positives and negatives of the following squads? Any upgrade changes you would suggest?

Vader + Homing missiles + Squad leader (36pts)

Turr + PTL + Stealth (31pts)

Night Beast (15pts)

Alpha Squad (18pts)

Vader and missiles is just too good. Vader and missiles and squad might be too big of a target... 2 pts more gets me Mithal instead of Night Beast and Turr with PTL is out of range for Squad Leader most of the time anyway. I really like Alpha Squad at skill 1 as a blocker but that roll is probably better used as a 12 academy tie but the 8pt difference between Squad leader and the down grade doesn't grab anything useful. Vader usually one shots something (or gets it into night beast + focus kill range). Alpha squad is a space taker and manages 4 attack dice most of the game. If Vader doesn't go down 1st engagement round him and Turr are a hard team to pin down and finish off. Almost want to downgrade Vader's missiles to cluster but hate having to go all in offense to use clusters but what would I do with the extra point? Night Beast usually looks like less of a threat so upgrading to dark curse seems less useful and I'm still not convinced about Winged Gundark.

Vader + Cluster Missiles (33pts)

Turr + Veteran Instincts+ Stealth (29pts)

Mauler Mithal + Veteran Instincts (18pts)

Dark Curse+ Stealth (19pts)

3 9Pilot Skills, 3 Very hard to kill ships, A 10 dice engagement round tag team by Mauler and Vader (often with Focus tokens and acting before everyone), and Dark Curse can soak as much fire as a Y wing most games. More punch and the potential for a longer game but very susceptible to Direct Hits and getting 1 shot'd.

i like both builds. quite similar. ive seen a few 3 ship builds that run vader+turr/veteran instincts+soontir/push the limit. u need balls of plexisteel to play it tho... im a big fan of engine upgrade on vader as he can boost/1 bank and barrel roll out of enemy arcs

You need to be carful with turrets. Can't boost or barrel roll out of those arcs.

Oh those arcs... That Vader and Mithal initial strike is coming right at them... probably 3-4 more dice from Turr and 2-3 more from the Curse too. That's a good one to go all in against.

Vader is also starting to look less and less appetizing. In the 2 games I've flown him in most recently, he's a big target and with full upgrades is over 1/3 your army. Looking at maybe cutting him in 2 to add a tie bomber + ordinance and either better upgrades or ships or just an academy tie for more numbers and a another blocker.

How about this list:

Turr + PTL + Stealth (31pts)

Scimitar Squadron + Homing missiles + Seismic charges (23pts)

Alpha Squad (18pts)

Mauler Mithal (17pts)

Academy Tie (12pts)

Still has the super squirrely (Captain Squirrely! to you) Turr, Big beats from Mauler + 2 interceptors, same big hit from the bomber, and an extra body on the field. Dropping seismic charges from the bomber (pun intended) frees up points for Mauler to take Veteran instincts, ensuring 1 extra round of attacking out of him can be pretty big. Another option instead of Mauler could be Howlrunner to get the most out of the engagement round with the 2 interceptors (and be an obvious target instead of bomber and Turr),

You need to be carful with turrets. Can't boost or barrel roll out of those arcs.

thats the gr8 thing about this game, there is no squad thats good against everything.

Played both again. First squad is nice but I just can't get enough out of Vader after the intial strike. Sure, he's hard to pin down but the all offense required to hit turns off his defensive bonuses.

2nd list is nice. I really like it. The only wiggle room is the 2pts for seismic charge vs. Vetran Insticts on Mauler or different secondary weapons on Vader. The bomb is almost always one damage but Mauler attacking before the oposition is often worth 1-2 damage and if that kills off a ship then it's worth way more; if he does it multiple times then it's really big. Seismic is obviously worth more vs. swarm. Any missiles get more milage when paired with Vader, just depends on the meta I guess.

The release of Imperial Aces does a lot for the interceptors. New build:

Turr + royal guard title+ stealth + shield upgrade + PTL- 34pts

Jax- 26pts

Scimitar + concussion- 21pts

Mauler+VI- 18pts

That's a lot of funk. Ignore Turr and get pinged to death by him. Jax makes sure mauler and Turr hits stick. A little missile action (if you're facing swarm go assault), heck even their 2 dice attacks will do something as long as Jax is around. I don't think this list is actually as good as the others but no evade or focus could hit like a ton of bricks (or just still shoot bricks- but now I'm mixing metaphors)

Or go somewhere completely all in on blitz attack:

Jax-26

Kir-24

Howlrunner- 18

Mauler- 17

Academy- 12

You have 3pts to play with. VI for Kir and Mauler and or swarm tactics is a good place to start; PTL for Jax or Kir also could be $$$ Not actually sold on Kir yet. 6 PS is less than I want and interceptors typically want to stay closer to make getting out of firing arcs easier. Also, if you are facing this squad, who do you target first- HowlRunner? Jax? Those 3 pts of modification should probably make that choice as hard as possible.

ive always used Vader as a support ship, using him to give my other ships another action if need be

Yeah. His fire power just isn't as good. With the imperial aces stuff coming out even less so since you can get Fell with Target Lock for the same cost as Vader and less than Vader + missiles. The ability to pass out actions is nice but for 29pts you can get an imperial guard + PTL for 2 of your pilots and have more firepower and no mobility restrictions for cheaper than Vader and squad leader. Vader was too much to begin with (all the advanced feel that way right now) but its clear he will be way out classed soon.

Did Vader fly other Tie Flavors?

ya, I used to run Vader and 4 tie fighters and used to do really well with them, mostly because I was really good at barrel rolling and moving, but now it seems like he takes a back seat to other pilots

Maybe swap vet for Squad lead and put you at 100 points

Anyway, this gives you a good amount of Firepower with no lack of mobility. Your basics all move together making maneuvering a bigger options. Also you get 4 good blockers and can pick/choose who blocks what.