Hey Guys,

Darth Vader as a crew member says:

After you perform an attack against an enemy ship, you may suffer 2 damage to cause that ship to suffer 1 critical damage.

My first impression of the card was that Vader bypassed Shields and gave that ship 1 face-up critical damage card. I am not longer sure that is the case. Hothie posted something that made me second guess myself and now I'm not sure how it's supposed to be played.

Your thoughts...

Manto F18

I think Hothie is correct. Shields will absorb the damage like normal - the key with crewVader is to use him on UNshielded hulls as a crippling blow or possible finisher.

'Suffering 1 critical damage' from Vader's ability is not different form suffering a critical damage from an attack die result. It follows the same general process of 'suffering' damage:

- You check for presence of shield tokens, and if any, remove one shield token.

- If no shields present, deal 1 face-down damage card if it is normal damage, or one face-up card if it is critical damage.

For Vader's ability to truly bypass shields, it should read something similar to what's written on proton bombs: "Deal one face-up damage card <to target>". This ignores the normal 'suffer damage' process and directly deals you the card.

Thanks for the speedy response!

I concur. The language on vaders card ("suffer 1 critical damage") is congruent with the wording for damage being suffered in the rulebook. Damage suffered is after hits and evades are rolled. So Vader is like an uncancelled critical, however, shields are always removed instead of drawing damage cards. So crew Vader is really best used on a target with no shields.

I'm not sure I concur. Following this logic would mean that the ship Vader is on would also remove shield tokens if they are available. So, if his ship has shield tokens available, then they would be removed in leu of suffering damage. If this is the case then he could perform this action up to 5 times if he is on the Lambda Shuttle or Firespray-31.

The process of suffering damage is clear on that matter. Unless we are under especial circumstances (such as proton bomb), every time a ship suffers damage, it removes shields tokens first. And when out of shield tokens, it starts to gain damage cards.

Proton bombs are the only thing at this moment that bypasses shields, because they not follow the standard 'suffering damage' process. They follow their own mechanism, dealing you a face up card hit directly, without checking for shields.

So, yes. If left alone, Vader could suffer 10 damage and cause 5 critical hits. The strategical value of that, is left up to you.

Sorry, double post.

I'm not sure I concur. Following this logic would mean that the ship Vader is on would also remove shield tokens if they are available. So, if his ship has shield tokens available, then they would be removed in leu of suffering damage. If this is the case then he could perform this action up to 5 times if he is on the Lambda Shuttle or Firespray-31.

This is exactly correct.

Dice Results -> Damage -> Cards. Vader jumps into the middle of that process, and you resolve it per the Suffering Damage rules on Page 16.

Thanks everyone for your super fast response. I understand the mechanics of what is occurring, however it still seems a bit illogical to me. If I were to assume that Vader is using the force to damage the defending ship from his ship, then I'm not understanding how the defending ships shields are absorbing this damage. Also, if he uncontrollably damages his ship in the process I'm not understanding how his ships shields could absorb this damage. After all, he is on the inside of the ship? I believe this card is very poorly written.

Also, if he uncontrollably damages his ship in the process I'm not understanding how his ships shields could absorb this damage. After all, he is on the inside of the ship?

I tend to think that Vader is using his lightsaber to "whip" the crew into action. He just happens to kill a technician or hit a critical system from time to time

Sergovan, I totally agree. I could envision that scenario. Vader in a fit of rage kills a crew member, or damages a component on the ship. However, according to the card text this damage is absorbed by the shields instead and shield tokens are removed?????????????? On the flip side the defending ships also remove shield tokens when available???? It makes no sense to me. According to the card text then if Admiral Kendal Ozzel would have had his shields up when Vader tried to force choked him, then he would have fallen out of his chair laughing at Vader. The laughter alone perhaps would have killed him. Heck, the whole crew of Executor could have raised their shields and had a blast laughing at him. He would surely tire himself out before being able to penetrate the shield generators of a Super Star Destroyer. Especially since his attack only causes the enemy ship to remove one shield token while his ship removes two. I could almost fall out of my chair trying to envision him performing this maneuver a couple of thousand times just to successfully force choke Admiral Ozzel or some poor deck man's uncontrolled laughter at Vader's lack of ability to wield the force.

It is a pure mechanic for the sake of game balance. Does anyone seriously think Vader would chop up his own shuttle in the hopes of taking a shield value from an x-wing? If anything, Vader would put his sabre into one of those drawers you see at the drive-up bank teller and, once our of the ship, would fly off and cut up an enemy ship(which in itself is preposterous)

I understand InvestFDC that this is a mechanic to balance the game. However, I don't understand the necessity to introduce a poorly planned and written card. Then, handicap said card for the sake of balancing the game. I can only hope that FFG will provide clarification in the tournament ruling, or FAQ sometime in the near future. Finding official answers to some questions are as difficult as finding an X-Wing Expansion pack at a decent price.

How is it a poorly written and planned card? You suffer two damage, as per the suffering damage rules on I think page 16. Then you deal 1 critical damage to an opponent - also following the suffering damage rules. Meaning if they have a shield, the shield eats it. If they don't, they are dealt a face-up damage card. It works just fine.

The problem is you're trying to visualize the actual 'flavor' action of what precisely is CAUSING the damage and trying to then judge the rules by your interpretation of pure fluff. Stop trying to picture HOW Vader is doing it, and just do what the card tells you to and you'll be just fine.

Here's a good point: You have to CHOOSE to activate it. Why would you ever CHOOSE to activate it when the target has shields remaining? It becomes a negative investment at that point.

Here's a good point: You have to CHOOSE to activate it. Why would you ever CHOOSE to activate it when the target has shields remaining? It becomes a negative investment at that point.

Though - even if you deal a crit - it's still a negative investment, many crits do not really do very much - there's a chance the crit will be a direct hit which brings a parity. Even with it's cost, it is perhaps the only guaranteed (not based on chance) damage in the game... (The seismic charge and proton bomb come close, though are dependant upon maneuvers)

Here's a good point: You have to CHOOSE to activate it. Why would you ever CHOOSE to activate it when the target has shields remaining? It becomes a negative investment at that point.

Yeah it kind of reminds me of trying to use an APT when you don't have a TL and a Focus, and then complaining it's a really poorly designed card because all it did is give you a bunch of useless eyeball symbols. Context is king.

Here's a good point: You have to CHOOSE to activate it. Why would you ever CHOOSE to activate it when the target has shields remaining? It becomes a negative investment at that point.

Though - even if you deal a crit - it's still a negative investment, many crits do not really do very much - there's a chance the crit will be a direct hit which brings a parity. Even with it's cost, it is perhaps the only guaranteed (not based on chance) damage in the game... (The seismic charge and proton bomb come close, though are dependant upon maneuvers)

Depending on the target, I'd rather deal a pilot or ship card than the double damage "equalization". Taking out Han's pilot ability or pilot rank is huge, and the same applies for Soontir, Boba, Vader, Wedge, ect. because it greatly de-values the "best" pilot on your opponent's team. Taking the secondary weapon off a Y-wing or Firespray is really nice, but stripping the turret off a HWK or the HLC off a B-wing is HUGE for decreasing your target's offensive capability.

Most of the other crits suck... but hopefully you get one of the good ones. 2 damage is sometimes worth a damage and a secondary effect.

Hello folks, question: Can I spend more than 2 damage to do several crits in one then please?

The process of suffering damage is clear on that matter. Unless we are under especial circumstances (such as proton bomb), every time a ship suffers damage, it removes shields tokens first. And when out of shield tokens, it starts to gain damage cards.

Proton bombs are the only thing at this moment that bypasses shields, because they not follow the standard 'suffering damage' process. They follow their own mechanism, dealing you a face up card hit directly, without checking for shields.

So, yes. If left alone, Vader could suffer 10 damage and cause 5 critical hits. The strategical value of that, is left up to you.

So if I understand that right: I can decide per round how much damage Vader ship can or should take and if enough shield or hull points available Vader can deal more than one critical hit PER ROUND? Would mean if my Lambda still has 5 shield and 5 hull and I use it up I can make 5 crits with one single attack? Woot this would finish up a phantom out hardly every small ship at once!! Very cheap fit only 3 points! I have to have that! With 3 cheap lambdas with Vader as passenger you are a suicide fleet ;-).

If the ship carrying Vader performs 5 attacks in that round .. Yeah.

You can't decide though, after you perform an attack on an enemy ship you may suffer 2 damage ..

Clearly, the 2 hits for 1 crit deal only applies to each attack.

Hello folks, question: Can I spend more than 2 damage to do several crits in one then please?

No. Every ability, including vader's, can trigger once per opportunity. You can only trigger vader once per attack. If vader were able to inflict multiple crits with a single attack it would be worder so ethi g like "after you perform an attack....you may suffer any amount if damage...for every 2 damage you suffer, the target takes one kaboom" or something along those lines. It doesn't say that, it can only be triggered once per attack.