I just worry about duplicate splat books at this point.

Ideally, FFG would put out two books - one that skimps on the core mechanics but delivers all the rebelliony goodness, and then the Full Meal Deal with all the nuts and bolts of the engine. That way everyone can buy what they want, and everyone is happy.

I meant more like a splat book for Smugglers that includes a lot of piloting info and a splat book for AoR Pilots also with a lot of piloting info.

I'm not going to go through and dispute each line, but try grabbing the Second Edition (or even Second Edition Revised) version, which is what everyone that plays still uses. It has everything that you're saying the First Edition doesn't.

*BUZZZZ!*

Wrong. Sorry - no moving the goalposts. If you want to compare a system that had been out several years, had several editions under it's belt and an metric ass-ton of sourcebooks to a system that has one core rule book and a GM screen (and a canned game nobody can get their hands on anymore), that's not fair. Yes, of course WEG published everything you need for any sort of Star Wars game you could possibly want - eventually. But when their game was first starting out back in 1988, just like the FFG engine is now, you had NOTHING* to work from except five stats and some imagination.

*Nearly nothing. I don't recall when Tatooine Manhunt came out, if it was released with the main rule book or shortly thereafter. The point still stands tho, since one core book and a canned game is hardly a wealth of information.

It's not moving goalposts at all. I expect a new version of SWRPG to learn from its predecessors and to grow from them. When comparing to the WEG game, you should be comparign to the most recent core rulebook. Your argument to the contrary is akin to saying that a new company that puts out a smartphone today should only have its product measured against the original iPhone rather than the most current model, and that's a rather silly argument to have.

I think FFG is brilliant. They released the easiest to work first, then through beta testing and refinement they work up the next (some would even say more important) set. Perhaps one day they will release a core book that contains all 3. This way they can make sure it will be a lasting product that sets a high bar and just gets better and better. I don't mind paying 60 bucks 3 times for one really good product.

For the record, I have no intention of purchasing any of the Beta books from here on out, I am a very patient person and have no qualms about waiting for the actual book to be released. I also have no problem with the model they have chosen. We who chose to play this game only benefit by having our peers playtest it first.

Also, our EotE game is just getting started and the release of AoR should coincide with the inclusion of the rebellion in our campaign.

I think all of us are right and are right with how we feel and if somebody doesn't agree with FFG that's very much okay with me and I won't tell those people they are wrong for having a differing opinion than my own. All of us are here to have fun, so lets have fun and enjoy the game and for those who want to play Star Wars using a different system, then enjoy your Star Wars game.

I for one don't see AoR as a Splat at all. I see it as a separate and entirely different game line altogether, and how FFG is doing this is NO Different than how White Wolf did their original World of Darkness games and people ate those up. Even now with their 20th Anniversary editions of their oWoD games they are releasing them all with the rules in their own game books so they haven't changed how they are doing the oWoD games and that's fine with me.

I think all of us are right and are right with how we feel and if somebody doesn't agree with FFG that's very much okay with me and I won't tell those people they are wrong for having a differing opinion than my own. All of us are here to have fun, so lets have fun and enjoy the game and for those who want to play Star Wars using a different system, then enjoy your Star Wars game.

I for one don't see AoR as a Splat at all. I see it as a separate and entirely different game line altogether, and how FFG is doing this is NO Different than how White Wolf did their original World of Darkness games and people ate those up. Even now with their 20th Anniversary editions of their oWoD games they are releasing them all with the rules in their own game books so they haven't changed how they are doing the oWoD games and that's fine with me.

It is SLIGHTLY different than oWOD. They were never completely compatible without a bit of jury rigging on the part of powers and abilities. Of course, that is what made it fun. Aside from that, completely correct.

I didn't like that they were charging for the beta book, but I knew they did it for Edge and I wanted to give feedback. Now that this page has been sitting here for a while with no word of release date I doubt I'm gonna buy it. If it had come out during GenCon I would have bought it in a heart beat and been on the forums every day. If it's not out by monday I'm not even going to come back to this page and just wait till the full release.

I think the Beta Release concept is a good idea. I'm still on the fence about how "worth it" the Edge of Empire Beta was to me - I bought it, I dutifully crossed out, wrote in and so on for about 2/3 of it and then gave up. Now, of course, it's largely worthless (except, possibly, for the inclusion of the Gthroc).

BUT, it did change my mind from *yawn* yet another gaming system; I like WotC's just fine to hey . This is actually really cool. I think I'll buy in after all. And I have.

But, that said, I don't need another Beta. Now, there are those who LOVE the chance to playtest and actually affect a gaming product; rock it, guys! Me, I'll wait for the final result this go 'round.

I think the Beta Release concept is a good idea. I'm still on the fence about how "worth it" the Edge of Empire Beta was to me - I bought it, I dutifully crossed out, wrote in and so on for about 2/3 of it and then gave up. Now, of course, it's largely worthless (except, possibly, for the inclusion of the Gthroc).

BUT, it did change my mind from *yawn* yet another gaming system; I like WotC's just fine to hey . This is actually really cool. I think I'll buy in after all. And I have.

But, that said, I don't need another Beta. Now, there are those who LOVE the chance to playtest and actually affect a gaming product; rock it, guys! Me, I'll wait for the final result this go 'round.

The only reason I see to get the Beta is for those of us who don't want to wait until next year to gain access to the new careers and ships.

Oh yeah and for us to argue about how much Armor a X-wing should have.

But, that said, I don't need another Beta. Now, there are those who LOVE the chance to playtest and actually affect a gaming product; rock it, guys! Me, I'll wait for the final result this go 'round.

Even for those of us who actually want to playtest and provide feedback we won't be able to because their self imposed deadline will be here at the rate they're putting this book up for sale.

Well, they've altered the deadline once. Perhaps they'll alter it further.

I managed to work my way through most of this thread, and I think my brain is melting.

Personally I wish they had just put out a core mechanics book, and then a separate book for Edge, Rebellion, and Force. That said, it's not that freaking big a deal. Every system is lacking some key details when it first comes out. There's just only so much room in a tomb of knowledge. Unless you want to be HERO and put out a two volume encyclopedia of rules there's going to be something missing. Heck even the Hero Encyclopedia didn't have much color or setting details, it was just rules.

West End was great, I've played it since first edition, but it had it's problems. I've got nearly every volume on my shelf, and there's holes and inconsistencies you could drive a truck through. Even after all of it's supplements, trying to create and price out certain equipment is still just a matter of, meh, I guess it will work like this, and we'll make it cost this. (I'm looking at you bounty hunter armor)

I never played the WoTC systems (not quite true I beta tested there very first iteration. Still have the rule book with my name in the credits somewhere). I hated the beta so much I never got the original. It was just terrible. Never got around to their second shot, as I was enjoying WEG and had invested so much time and money finding old out of print books.

I've watched the FFG system coming for a year and a half now with hope, worry, and trepidation, and am pleased to see it in general lives up to my expectations. There's things I wish they would do differently, as I said I'd prefer a general mechanics book, and then settings supplements, but it's just not that big a deal. It's a game. It's a game I think I'll come to really enjoy, but when all is said and done, it's just not worth actually getting angry about. I think the Beta book thing is a bit of a jip, and am not buying it myself, but am throwing 10 bucks at a friend in our group who is, so I can borrow it a bit guilt free.

Well I've rambled on enough. I'm not sure I went where I intended with my post. I'll enjoy it one way or another, and am looking forward to more supplements.

PS Please put out a Bounty Hunter Book next, thank you.

Seems like a money grab, at least partially, to me. Partially because it's a choice. But what is unfortunate is that they are taking advantage of their otherwise loyal (if not rabid) fans.

I, for one, will not be paying for beta. Hell. I don't really even like the idea that they left Star Destroyers out of the book. Really?

Anywho. I'll still be buying AoR when it comes OUT, not when it's in editing phase.

I, for one, will not be paying for beta. Hell. I don't really even like the idea that they left Star Destroyers out of the book. Really?

... yeah, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there, thanks to someone with the book .

Truthbetold the thing about the beta is that you're not so much paying for "the book" as you are for first-hand access to its content for the purposes of providing feedback... without which you just have "whatever someone tells you", i.e. can't weigh in on the gravity well projector rules without having the book or someone telling you them verbatim.

Seems like a money grab, at least partially, to me. Partially because it's a choice. But what is unfortunate is that they are taking advantage of their otherwise loyal (if not rabid) fans.

I, for one, will not be paying for beta.

Good. More for those of us that want one.

Hell. I don't really even like the idea that they left Star Destroyers out of the book. Really?

Last i heard they were in AoR.

I, for one, will not be paying for beta. Hell. I don't really even like the idea that they left Star Destroyers out of the book. Really?

... yeah, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there, thanks to someone with the book .

I meant they left Star Destroyers out of EotE. They better be in AoR.

Seems like a money grab, at least partially, to me. Partially because it's a choice. But what is unfortunate is that they are taking advantage of their otherwise loyal (if not rabid) fans.

I, for one, will not be paying for beta.

Good. More for those of us that want one.

Hell. I don't really even like the idea that they left Star Destroyers out of the book. Really?

Last i heard they were in AoR.

Yes, more for you, which is totally fine and no skin off my back. Enjoy, my compliments. And yes, ISDs are in AoR.

I, for one, will not be paying for beta. Hell. I don't really even like the idea that they left Star Destroyers out of the book. Really?

... yeah, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there, thanks to someone with the book .

I meant they left Star Destroyers out of EotE. They better be in AoR.

Seems like a money grab, at least partially, to me. Partially because it's a choice. But what is unfortunate is that they are taking advantage of their otherwise loyal (if not rabid) fans.

I, for one, will not be paying for beta.

Good. More for those of us that want one.

Hell. I don't really even like the idea that they left Star Destroyers out of the book. Really?

Last i heard they were in AoR.

Yes, more for you, which is totally fine and no skin off my back. Enjoy, my compliments. And yes, ISDs are in AoR.

Actually I find their omission as stat blocks to be thematically appropriate... unless you somehow see fringers being plausibly able to get their hands on a comparably-sized capital ship (the Imperial -class is Silhouette 8) with crew, armaments, munitions, supplies, consumables, fuel, and so on with which to "stand and bang", as opposed to the party being packed into a single freighter or space transport (Silhouettes 4 or 5).

Otherwise, it's time to make like Han Solo and run for it , at which point Star Destroyers can appear... as narrative .

Well, they've altered the deadline once. Perhaps they'll alter it further.

This is quite funny. I just hope they don't.

so vote with your wallet and don't buy it. Problem solved. Personally, I'm gonna wait for the final book.

Not buying the beta but only because I won't get a party together quick enough to provide valuable feedback. Not because of some cynical notion that:

a. someone is out to get me and make a profit off of me.

b. it is apparently a deadly sin for a company in a niche market to aim to make a profit at all.

Besides all that I, for one, am getting really, really tired of people insisting they are dealing with "an incomplete" game while the opposite is true. As far as corebooks go EotE is absolutely the most complete game I have ever had the pleasure of reading and FFG never made it a secret that the contents would be presented as they are. Anyone complaining about this should think about why they would want to switch to a new system if they want everything to remain the same. Play WEG or Saga, no one said you couldn't!

And, really, someone complaining about there being no Star Destroyer stats in a game of fringers, smugglers and bounty hunters scraping out a living on the edge of the galaxy really should be taken into the airlock and set free.

More like they're not creative enough to make a chase scene out of it... because that's pretty much what fringers have to do against Star Destroyers.

It would be impossible to create one rule-book encompassing all of star wars, so the complaint about piece-mealing 3 different books together is unfounded, I think

It would be impossible to create one rule-book encompassing all of star wars, so the complaint about piece-mealing 3 different books together is unfounded, I think

One RULE book is feasible. Unless they truly did have different systems in each of the books. The thing is that they don't. So far AoR has exactly the same rules as EotE . Some people (Myself included) think that there should be Setting specific systems that plug into Main rules to make the over all Star Wars Setting work best. Duty is a start. And they have said that more rules for Capital scale ships is coming in the beta. The only other thing I can think of that we could use would be Mass Combat rules and how PCs can interact with them.

As an example of what Zar said, the Rogue Trader book has all the rules of Dark Heresy, plus Profit factor AND great big starship combat. Deathwatch has all the rules of Dark Heresy plus Adeptus Astartes and the small unit rules.