Fire-Control System
After you perform an attack, you may acquire a target lock on the defender.

Captain Kagi

When an enemy ship acquires a target lock, it must lock onto your ship if able

so will the ship with the fire control system be able to target lock its defender ie a b-wing shooting a tie fighter or will the target lock go to Captain Kagi?

It seems to me that while the Fire-Control System allows you to acquire a TL it can only be done on the ship you attacked. Because of this you are NOT "able" to target Kagi and thus lock the target you were shooting at.

i would say no because FCS specifically says defender and kagi has a clause which states if able

FCS gives you an 'acquire target lock action' (or this could be like Dutch's ability, which isn't an action) but FFG will have to clarify if it is an action or a free action. When you choose to gain the target lock on your target, if Captain Kagi is within range 3 of your ship, the target lock passes to him. The " if able " refers to the possibility that Kagi may not be within range to be target locked, which means you would place the target lock onto the target you fired on.

Also, if you gained a target lock as your action and used it in your attack, you could not use FCS to gain a free target lock as you can only do each action once per turn. You would have to fire, without a target lock, to gain one.

FCS gives you an 'acquire target lock action' (or this could be like Dutch's ability, which isn't an action) but FFG will have to clarify if it is an action or a free action. When you choose to gain the target lock on your target, if Captain Kagi is within range 3 of your ship, the target lock passes to him. The " if able " refers to the possibility that Kagi may not be within range to be target locked, which means you would place the target lock onto the target you fired on.

Also, if you gained a target lock as your action and used it in your attack, you could not use FCS to gain a free target lock as you can only do each action once per turn. You would have to fire, without a target lock, to gain one.

I'm not sure this is correct. It says acquire a target lock - much like, say Fel stressing himself to acquire a focus token, this is NOT an action. The whole point of FCS is to grant you a target lock WITHOUT requiring an action. As long as you spent your target lock (if you already had one) in your attack, I don't see any reason FCS wouldn't grant you another at the conclusion of the attack.

The only real question is Kagi, and whether the text of FCS is strong enough to override his ability or not.

I say it would override as the target is specified. The same with K5. Kagi is not a choice so therefore cannot be choosen.

My only question would be weapons engineer.

Both Dutch and FCS say "may acquire target lock" but that is the extent of their similarities.

The thing is there FCS only allows a very specific target lock to be made while Kagi must be locked "if able." There is nothing on that Shuttle that says it is the ONLY thing that can pick up target locks so if something can lock something else and Kagi isn't a valid target for whatever reason it can still be done.

We played it as we could only TL the defender, since you may acquire the lock, it is not an action, and the text specifies the defender.

It was the only viable way to avoid Kagi's ability, other than deadeye.

Until we see different from FFG, I'm pretty sure this is the way our group will play it.

I'm not sure this is correct. It says acquire a target lock - much like, say Fel stressing himself to acquire a focus token, this is NOT an action. The whole point of FCS is to grant you a target lock WITHOUT requiring an action. As long as you spent your target lock (if you already had one) in your attack, I don't see any reason FCS wouldn't grant you another at the conclusion of the attack.

The only real question is Kagi, and whether the text of FCS is strong enough to override his ability or not.

Fel's ability say's to "assign a focus token" which is not an action as you are granting a token and not taking the Focus action. That is why you can take focus, get stressed, and gain a 2nd focus token with Fel.

As I noted in my post, FCS could work like Dutch's ability (which hasn't been clarified as gaining the TL tokens or taking an action to gain the TL tokens) as "acquire a target lock" could mean either version. This came up in a discussion of Dutch's pilot ability and I have yet to see the response to how it is to be ruled. If it was a granting of the tokens, you would be right. But I believe its the granting a free action so it would fall under the "can't do two of the same actions in a turn".

As for Kagi's ability, FCS states "acquire a target lock on the defender" would mean you are attempting to gain a TL. Kagi's pilot ability would then kick in as "an enemy ship acquires a target lock, it must lock onto your ship if able". The "if able" on Kagi's pilot ability is there to limit the TL to your ship's range. Kagi must be within TL range of your ship when you acquire a target lock or else you would have to TL him regardless of where he was on the board, in TL range or not, which wouldn't make much sense if you TL'd Kagi at range 4...

To sum up, if you fire at a ship and use FCS, if Kagi is within range 3 or less of your ship you would be locking onto him. If Kagi was not within range 3 or less of your ship that fired, you would lock onto the ship you fired on.

I went back into the topic: Another Dutch Vander question 4 pages back in topics , which looked into if Dutch's ability worked with a ship that was stressed and was it granting a free action or something else, which has striking similarities to FCS. Hothie cornered James Kniffen back in May to get clarification on Dutch's ability which is as follows:

I was able to attend the Star Wars Experience put on by FFG this weekend, and I was able to corner James Kniffen and Jay Little and got some explanations and insights from them about the game. Here is what I learned, in order of me remembering them:

1. Dutch Vander's ability is specifically worded so that the ally does not need to take an action in order to receive the free target lock. So this settles the debate about the ally having the Damaged Sensor Array card and being able to receive Dutch's ability. Jay thought the ally wouldn't be able to spend that lock due to the DSA card "blanking out" the action bar, but James corrected that and said that it could spend the lock, it just couldn't take the lock on its own turn. He said that the ally needed to have the target lock icon in its action bar in order to receive the lock from Dutch, though.

Going back on what I said earlier, FCS is worded with "acquire a target lock" without t he word " action" stated anywhere. This puts the FCS in line with Dutch's and R5K6 abilities, which are not actions. I was one of the people in the "if it is named like the action then it is the action" camp.

So you could take TL action on a ship, fire on it and use up your TL, and gain your TL right back with FCS; but if Kagi is in range to TL, you would target lock him instead, either with your action or the granted ability after firing.

I'm divided on this one, but my instinct tells me that Kagi prevails over FCS.

My reasoning is that it could interpreted that FCS only 'pre-declares' for you which ship you will lock (the target of your attack), whereas Kagi's ability, as written, is a 'general' type effect that affects all Target Locks, no matter the source, and takes effect whenever you get a target lock.

In other words, FCS gives you the option of acquiring a target lock on a predetermined target, yes, but Kagi's ability triggers whenever you get any target lock, no matter the reason or your original target.

So, unless Kagi is beyond range 3 or you already have a target lock on him (both conditions makes you unable to lock him), I'd say that you must target lock him.

Let's leave Kagi out of it for the moment, and consider just the Fire Control System.

We're playing a game. I have a Fire Control System, and fire at Vader. I say I'm going to use my FCS and lock on to Fel. Can I do that? Pretty sure the answer there is a resounding "no".

So why could I use the FCS to lock on to Kagi if he wasn't the one I targeted? Kagi doesn't let anyone do anything they couldn't normally do. That's what the "if able" is there for. If whatever you are doing wouldn't let you lock Kagi, you aren't required to lock on to him. That includes range, but there's no reason to think that's the only restriction he checks.

Fortunately, the "is it an action" part for FCS is easier, and the answer there is also no. Just like Dutch and R5-K6, it's not an action to acquire the target.

I'm divided on this one, but my instinct tells me that Kagi prevails over FCS.

My reasoning is that it could interpreted that FCS only 'pre-declares' for you which ship you will lock (the target of your attack), whereas Kagi's ability, as written, is a 'general' type effect that affects all Target Locks, no matter the source, and takes effect whenever you get a target lock.

In other words, FCS gives you the option of acquiring a target lock on a predetermined target, yes, but Kagi's ability triggers whenever you get any target lock, no matter the reason or your original target.

So, unless Kagi is beyond range 3 or you already have a target lock on him (both conditions makes you unable to lock him), I'd say that you must target lock him.

It's not a pre-declare, it's a conditional. You only get the target lock if it's on the last person you shot at. If Kagi was not the last one you shot at then you are not "able" to lock onto him. FCS isn't a full aquire target lock ability, it's a "half" a target lock with a very narrow list of potential targets.

Fluffwise think of it not as a standard target lock, but as those advanced systems tracking movment and making corrections for the next burst or torpedo. If Kagi had an effect at all it would cause a glitch and no lock would happen at all. I know Fluff doesn't mean much on rules calls but I find it often helps to know what is being simulated.

Yes, as I said, I am pretty divided on this one, and your interpretation is probably right.

However, remember that there is a similar precedent with Biggs. People also used to 'bypass' its ability by selecting weapons unable to target Biggs "He is at range 3 and my turret/cannon/missile/whatever only reaches range 2, so I'm free to attack whoever I wish"... and strictly speaking ruleswise, that was a perfectly legal solution. But at the end, FFG forced us to target Biggs, even if it means forcing you to select another weapon able to target him.

Without any other support that my instinct, I suspect that FFG will also enforce 'locking on Kagi' as a mean to revalorize its ability, and providing a pretty noticiable counter to FCS. Of course, this claim is totally baseless.

Fluff is not a very useful way of explaining things, since it can easily reverted to fit whatever interpretation I wish. I could easily say that Kagi's shuttle has so advanced computers, jamming systems, and expert technicians that he is able to hack/interfere with the locking process of any fighter computers in range and drawing/absorbing any target lock to him.

I can see your point, but with Biggs it's making you pick a weapon that can target him. Sure if he's out of my arc and I have a turret I have to use it but FCS doesn't involve any choice other than "use it" or "don't use it".

Agreed that fluff isn't a great way to do things, it just helps my own thought processes to visualize things.

Let's leave Kagi out of it for the moment, and consider just the Fire Control System.

We're playing a game. I have a Fire Control System, and fire at Vader. I say I'm going to use my FCS and lock on to Fel. Can I do that? Pretty sure the answer there is a resounding "no".

So why could I use the FCS to lock on to Kagi if he wasn't the one I targeted? Kagi doesn't let anyone do anything they couldn't normally do. That's what the "if able" is there for. If whatever you are doing wouldn't let you lock Kagi, you aren't required to lock on to him. That includes range, but there's no reason to think that's the only restriction he checks.

Fortunately, the "is it an action" part for FCS is easier, and the answer there is also no. Just like Dutch and R5-K6, it's not an action to acquire the target.

I understand the limiter of FCS stating it is the "defender" that gets target locked, but you miss how Kagi applies to it. Kagi's ability is triggered "when an enemy ship acquires a target lock" and states where the target lock must go, on him.

If you shot at Vader and tried to target lock onto him with FCS, but Kagi was within range 3 of you, your target lock would go to Kagi, because you are able to target lock onto him so you must .

However, if you shot at Vader and used FCS to gain a target lock, but Kagi was outside of range 3 from you, you may target lock onto Vader, as you are not able to target lock onto Kagi because he is outside the range to be target locked.

You "must" TL Kagi "if able".

If the "if able" was not there, Kagi would receive every target lock on the board no matter his positioning, which would greatly extend the target lock ability beyond its range. And if the "defender" limiter was not on FCS, you could fire on Vader and TL Fel, which wouldn't make much sense.

Your question, "So why could I use the FCS to lock on to Kagi if he wasn't the one I targeted?" Well, isn't that how his ability always works; You've TL'd some other ship but have to TL Kagi instead because he's in range.

Because this is a card vs card ruling, I'm not 100% sure exactly how it should go. You may be right and the defender limiter could be enough to stop the TL redirect, but I don't think it's going to work that way.

I will submit an inquiry to FFG in the meantime.

One thing is for sure, Wave 3 FAQ is going to be hot as hell...

Let's leave Kagi out of it for the moment, and consider just the Fire Control System.

We're playing a game. I have a Fire Control System, and fire at Vader. I say I'm going to use my FCS and lock on to Fel. Can I do that? Pretty sure the answer there is a resounding "no".

So why could I use the FCS to lock on to Kagi if he wasn't the one I targeted? Kagi doesn't let anyone do anything they couldn't normally do. That's what the "if able" is there for. If whatever you are doing wouldn't let you lock Kagi, you aren't required to lock on to him. That includes range, but there's no reason to think that's the only restriction he checks.

Fortunately, the "is it an action" part for FCS is easier, and the answer there is also no. Just like Dutch and R5-K6, it's not an action to acquire the target.

I understand the limiter of FCS stating it is the "defender" that gets target locked, but you miss how Kagi applies to it. Kagi's ability is triggered "when an enemy ship acquires a target lock" and states where the target lock must go, on him.

If you shot at Vader and tried to target lock onto him with FCS, but Kagi was within range 3 of you, your target lock would go to Kagi, because you are able to target lock onto him so you must .

However, if you shot at Vader and used FCS to gain a target lock, but Kagi was outside of range 3 from you, you may target lock onto Vader, as you are not able to target lock onto Kagi because he is outside the range to be target locked.

You "must" TL Kagi "if able".

If the "if able" was not there, Kagi would receive every target lock on the board no matter his positioning, which would greatly extend the target lock ability beyond its range. And if the "defender" limiter was not on FCS, you could fire on Vader and TL Fel, which wouldn't make much sense.

Your question, "So why could I use the FCS to lock on to Kagi if he wasn't the one I targeted?" Well, isn't that how his ability always works; You've TL'd some other ship but have to TL Kagi instead because he's in range.

Because this is a card vs card ruling, I'm not 100% sure exactly how it should go. You may be right and the defender limiter could be enough to stop the TL redirect, but I don't think it's going to work that way.

I will submit an inquiry to FFG in the meantime.

But you are not "able" to lock Kagi. A normal target lock anyone in range 3 is a legal choice and Kagi's ability would take effect, with FCS only the defender is a legal choice.

One thing is for sure, Wave 3 FAQ is going to be hot as hell...

As long as they bring it out before the next round of tournaments...

The question is: is the wording on FCS, "on the defender" strong enough to overrule the wording on Kagi, "must lock onto your ship, if able." I would say the answer is fuzzy, at best. There are legit arguments for both cases so unless someone can point to a rule establishing a clear priority of which trumps the other, I suspect this one will come down to a ruling.

It's, once again, a timing issue.

When exactly does 'if able' refers to?

'If able' when you tried to stablish the original lock on your target?

or

'If able' when you are trying to stablish a new target lock on Kagi?

I wouldn't call it a timing issue. It doesn't matter which happens first, or when each takes effect. What matters is which one takes priority over the other. Does targeting the defender make Kagi an illegal target? Or does Kagi forcing you to target him make it impossible to target lock your original target?

I lean towards FCS naming a specific target overruling Kagi, but I also wouldn't be shocked to see it ruled either direction.

I just thought of something else, too, that I think works against the argument for Kagi.

FCS is optional. You MAY acquire a lock on the defender. You don't have to. So if you were in a situation where Kagi came into play, what would stop you from just declining to accept a target lock in the first place? Nope, I'm good, no TL for Kagi to hijack.

That being the case, I find it even more unlikely he could overrule the text of FCS to begin with. Because even if he did, you'd just never take the TL in a situation where you would be able to TL him instead.

That being the case, I find it even more unlikely he could overrule the text of FCS to begin with. Because even if he did, you'd just never take the TL in a situation where you would be able to TL him instead.

Well, if you choose to not take the TL to screw Kagi's ability, you remain under its influence. You end up without TL (Which is already bad), and the next time you'll try to get one, you'll end up on the same dilemma. Only way to escape would be getting beyond range 3 from Kagi.

However, if you decide to 'sacrifice' your TL on Kagi this round, the next round you are truly free to TL whoever you want, since you are now unable to TL Kagi (because you already have a TL on him).

But my point was, I still lean in favor of FCS beating Kagi to begin with. That was just kind of an 'even if.'