Yo, big Moldy Crow / Dark Forces fan here, and I'd like to talk about The Moldy Crow as a vessel in this game, and I've got a LOT to say, so be ready folks..!

Pre-ordered one in the middle of the month from Miniature market, dying to get it, literally my most favorite ship in Star Wars, but that's all beside the point! What I want to talk about, is the viability of an HWK-290 in the X-wing miniatures game.

I've seen a lot of folks turding on the poor bird. But let's take a look at it here. Now, just so you know, I'm an X-wing newbie, and I've only won a single match, and that was against my step-little-brother playing as The Empire.

Never have won against my father playing The Empire, and me playing The Rebellion... BUT, that is ALSO aside from the point, but less so! My experience is small and kinda' pathetic. So maybe take what I say here with a tad grain of salt yeah?

So let's start off with its stats.

Attack: 1
Movement: 2
Armor: 4
Shields: 1

Alongside a reportedly cruddy dial, I can totally see why folks are squatting over it all over The Internet. And real quick, before we go on, I wanna' get something out of the way.

Dark Forces II is my most favorite game of all time, the entire series is great (With the exception of MoTS!) and I can definitely tell you that FFG got the size of this bad boy right. 16.5m is very much the actual size of The Crow, and for anyone who wishes to know, that 29m long scale came from the extremely blah Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight novelization, that had the gall to claim The Crow had a boarding ramp and a refresher... And the it was somehow Corellian. Looks Incom to me, but that's not up for debate.

FFG got the scale right. No doubt about it.

So, anyway... The crow has extremely blah stats, having the lowest attack out of anything to grace our tables so far, and about as sluggish as a Y-wing, what use it there for it?

First off, let's talk about its real role. It ain't a direct combat craft unless you're a nutjob like me who would send it in face first into a wave of TIEs because I'm silly like that. Check out the cards. This thing is built for support, and basically just that. In fact, its best feature you can probably mount on a Y-wing (which means you gotta' get the HWK-290 first, so might as well figure out how to use it right?)

Let's go by Pilot Skill.

PS-8, Jan Ors. What would we do without her, guys?

We'd not be content old men before anyone says it.

"When another friendly ship at Range 1-3 is attacking, if you have no stress tokens, you may receive 1 stress token to allow that ship to roll 1 additional attack die."

Dude whoa. You realize what that means right? Say you've got an X-wing that's within a decent range of a TIE fighter and it's ready to attack. If you've kept Jan roughly close to that X-wing, you've got this ability open, and can allow it one more attack die.

At range 2, that's four attack die. At range 3, that's one more die to make up for the extra evade they're gonna' roll, but at range 1... Oooohohohohoho at range 1, that little guy is goin' down dude. Goin' doooowwwwn. 5 die.

5 die, man. It'd take an act of The Force for almost any TIE pilot to survive that. Think about it. That thing has to roll every die to evade to have a chance at surviving. Even with that chance, there's two more ready to show that thing who's boss. Just, my goodness. That is one dead fighter.

Now one can easily argue, "Hold up! With Marksman and Wedge can pull off something just as deadly!"

Quite so. But that reduces the amount of targets doesn't it? It makes Wedge that sole target, and once you eliminate him, well... Goodbye half of the squad's effectiveness. But see, I'm certain nobody wants that to happen.

Part of the point of the HWK-290 is to be a distraction, a target if you will. When a player can use this old bird well enough, then any good Imperial Player knows that thing is a major threat because it can boost the combat effectiveness of its allies by a pretty fair bit. I'm no math whiz but the above sounds like a roughly 20-30% increase in lethality if using Jan Ors.

So that covers Jan's abilities and use for the most part, right? Right. What about the next one?

Kyle? Kyle Katarn? He looks like nothing more than a Bantha herder... But his ability is pretty great so looks don't count for much, let's talk about his setup.

"At the start of the Combat Phase, you may assign 1 of your focus tokens to another friendly ship at Range 1-3"

"GARVIN, GARVIN EVERYWHERE!"

Slightly but not quite. Garvin can use it and send it to someone else at Range 1-2, which is pretty great. But see, Kyle can just pop one out, and send it over to range 3 friendlies. Another support card, yeah?

What happens with you have Garvin and Kyle together? You have a focus token factory, that's what you've got, and everyone knows that Focus Tokens are utterly invaluable to have around. It's good stuff, I believe. You could effectively toss focus tokens back and forth between Kyle and Garvin.

"Yo Kyle just used this take it back." and then, Kyle could generate another, toss another Garvin's way. Just pumping these things out. After a while, if your guys are still alive, you can toss them to other ships.

Kyle is going to be utterly indispensable in regards to keeping your fighters alive and dishing out damage, I think, and that about covers it.

So, what about the last named card? Roark Garnet, a guy who owned The Crow before any of our two most well known folks!

And uh.

Sorry.

I don't have any witty Dark Forces / Jedi Knight references to lead into it this time. Let's just say he has really big sideburns and leave it at that alright?

So what does he do?

"At the start of the Combat phase, choose 1 other friendly ship at Range 1-3. Until the en of the phase, treat that ship's pilot skill value as "12""

You can already see how this'll be useful right? You could treat any ship of yours within that range as a really highly skilled pilot. That even includes cruddy pilot skills! Suddenly, that skill 2 X-wing pilot, or skill ONE A-wing Pilot, your el-cheapo units, are capable of outflying Darth Vader and Soontir Fel! Well. They're capable of attacking before them that is.

And that's really, really impressive! Not anywhere near as impressive as say, the token factory that is Garvin and Kyle, or the, "Yeah go ahead and vaporize them out of existence" Jan card, but at the cost of less than an X-wing, that's pretty excellent stuff! But that about covers Garnet, I think. He's good, but he ain't as good as Jan and Kyle.

But really, who is?

...So, now that I've said all that... The HWK-290 is a big fat target right? Well, yeah. Yeah it sorta' is. Its defenseless! 1 attack?

FRET NOT MY FRIEND, THE BLASTER TURRET IS HERE TO SAVE YOU.

Come on, this thing is gonna' be a target. So, it'd be a pain to have to protect it constantly right? Right, it definitely would! So let it protect itself! Nay, we say, we will NOT fly circles around a fully capable craft! NAY!

No we let it protect itself with that bad boy of a turret. 3 damage, range 1-2. Pew pew, man. That's as much firepower as an X-wing! In a 360 degree arc! That's utterly terrifying! That completely does away with the TIE fighter's ability to get close, because if it does, it'll have to worry about that turret, AND the HWK-290's escort (that I presume one would have because surely we're not daft here..!)

Dangerous little bird,huh? Not to mention the extra cards it comes with. Also, relevant to Kyle especially is The Moldy Crow title card. Don't discard any Focus tokens eh?

With that, Garvin, and Kyle, rebel Players will be pulling a Scrooge McDuck into their literal piles of focus coins post game.

So there you have it! The Crow isn't a combat unit, not at all! But it sure is one amazing support unit. Also, if you're not fielding that blaster turret, you better be fielding Marksman ship, because you're gonna' need to dish out as much ka-pew-pew-KABOOM as a Y-wing, to make up for that.

Or just go nuts and use Marksmanship and the Turret.

Now, as I said before, I'm a rookie! So I wanna' know something. Can the shield upgrade be applied to any unit? If so...

No reason not to put it on the crow.

Also, maneuvering with The Crow? Keep it on the outside, flank the enemy, and be flexible. Keep in mind it can't rush somewhere fast. Think of what you're going to use it with, and imagine a range-3 rope between The Crow and whatever craft you're supporting, never ever leave that gap, unless you have extremely good reason to do so.

Also I do apologize for the EXTREMELY lengthy post of my first topic! But please, go ahead, tell me what you think of all this, your thoughts on The Crow, and what you like about it and hate about it..! Other than a strange, complete lack of forward visibility that is. (HOLOGOGGLES WOO)

I said this in another thread, but a fully loaded Kyle (31 points with Blaster Turret, Moldy Crow, Recon Specialist) is like a super X-Wing. Three attack dice with the turret, two on the defense, and five HP. Throw in the ability to hand out focus tokens like they're candy and you have a stellar support option with a reasonable attack.

Yeah, I saw that post! The preemptive opinions on the Crow just didn't seem to do it justice, and I'm really, really glad to see that it is indeed an awesome little ship.

If I'm honest I'm just whacko enough to want to play an HWK-290 only game. Just for kicks.

No, I'm right there with you. I have very fond memories of battles with Phase 1 Dark Troopers and Jerec.

Heheheh. My memories of Dark Forces are vague (Playing now, mega fun!) but my Jedi Knight memories are unforgettable.

As are Kyle's "UUUUWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHH!"s. So many of them.

I loved Jedi Knight multiplayer, particularly the Bespin map. Max out dark side to get Force Destruction, bait people into the shaft, and then repeatedly send them flying to their doom. I won many a match because I was the only one with a positive score.

I agree with you. The HWK isn't going to be a good "Backbone" but the named pilots are going to be a massive boost to just about any squad you put them on. Only bad choice I see is Roark on a team with already high pilot skills. Even the generic will make a nice cheap turret platform.

I'm right there with you, Captain (as I'm sure you already know from our conversations on dA ).

To paraphrase MK-09 from X-wing Alliance: "The Moldy Crow is a beauty of a ship that I would love to fly!"

I'm thinking they'll be a more heavily-armed version of the Y-wing, and I plan on using two of them in tandem with a couple of cheap A-wings as escort, or perhaps an A-wing/X-wing combo. Diversity is the name of the game, and I think this might be a winner for the Rebels.

Less heavily armed, lower health, but harder to hit.

So I feel like a big question now is, what magic can really be worked in the Kyle/Garvin Factory? Do we have some really solid combo we can plop on these two that means they will be really effective in their own right? or do we plop them down into a combo with someone like wedge or ibtisam? Mostly I'm just thinking, now that Garvin doesn't need to generate that focus himself what kind of upgrades can take most advantage of that free action.

Also I saw someone throw Jan Ors' extra die onto Nunb when he was at range one and exposing. 6 dice with a target lock. After the reroll they had 2 crits, 3 hits and a focus. It was pretty brutal.

God. My memories of Jedi Knight were spectacular. I enjoyed force choking Imps over cliff edges and releasing them. Or force wave....that also worked too. I miss those days....

Good to see some love for the Crow and the Dark Forces series in general. Really nice to see some good write-ups on the HWK, seems to be the least popular of the wave (not surprisingly).

The way I'll have the most fun with the crow is doing custom scenarios. I got something in my head about Jan having to drop Kyle off on one of his missions (pehaps represented with saboteur), then the crow has to stay alive for so many turns so Jan can pick him back up and flee off the rebel side of the map.

Off topic: I though MotS was a solid x-pac, Captain Lackwit. Jedi Academy was the weakest of the series.

I've been reading the lackluster effects of Assault Missiles against TIE swarms, and I'd like to put Jan with a couple of those bad boys to give them a better chance to hit those evasive eyeballs. Probably put her with Green Sq. Pilots + Push the Limit.

Good to see some love for the Crow and the Dark Forces series in general. Really nice to see some good write-ups on the HWK, seems to be the least popular of the wave (not surprisingly).

The way I'll have the most fun with the crow is doing custom scenarios. I got something in my head about Jan having to drop Kyle off on one of his missions (pehaps represented with saboteur), then the crow has to stay alive for so many turns so Jan can pick him back up and flee off the rebel side of the map.

Off topic: I though MotS was a solid x-pac, Captain Lackwit. Jedi Academy was the weakest of the series.

MotS was very solid, it was just hard to not be critical of the in-game cut scenes after the live action ones in Jedi Knight.

I disagree. MotS had horrible level architecture and boring artistic design. After the variety of textures in JK and incredibly grand level architecture and set pieces, I was expecting something similar with MotS. Instead I got claustrophobic levels with unimaginative puzzles and a general feel of a fan-made expansion rather than something that was developed by the original developers. I don't know what happened to the design team, but they really didn't do well at all with that expansion. Jedi Academy at least had a variety of interesting missions as well as the novelty of being able to pick and choose where you go in the galaxy, even if the story was weak. MotS didn't really even have a good story, now that I think about it.

Less heavily armed, lower health, but harder to hit.

I meant in the sense that the ship will be able to mount the blaster turret which gives you three attack dice. The Y-wing's primary weapon has two attack dice which only become three at range one, while the Crow's turret gives it three dice at all ranges, plus 360* fire arc. The Y-wing does have the punch of torpedoes, but they're expensive and expendable, while the blaster turret is neither, meaning it can potentially dish out far greater damage with more reach than the Y-wing, with the exception of a similarly blaster-turret armed ship. Therefore, I consider it more heavily armed than a stock Y-wing. I'll probably use it similarly to how I use the Y-wing, with the exception of flying against large ships. The Y-wing's torpedoes will be more useful in that case.

The HWK is clearly less heavily armed.

A stock HWK has 1 die, no turret compared to a stock Y-Wing with 2 dice and no turret. You should compare apples to apples, especially since there is no reason at all that the Y-Wing couldn't sport the same turret as the HWK. Comparing a HWK with turret to a Y-Wing without, of course the HWK appears more heavily armed.

A HWK has 1 die, and space for a turret.

A Y-Wing has 2 dice, space for a turret, and space for 2 Torpedoes.

The Y-Wing is significantly better armed, much tougher, has less agility but a better dial and the space for an Astromech. It lacks elite pilot skills, the support abilities of the named HWK pilots, a crew slot, and costs more.

They seem pretty well balanced by points cost to me.

Edit: Forgot crew slot the first time. Added to the post. Thank you Ravncat.

I've been looking forward to the HWK and trying variant HWK lists... one of which is

http://x-wing.voidstate.com/view/15838/self-support

It has an action denial weakness (Due to focus being required to fire the weapons) - and really needs to be in range 2 of enemies to function, This variant of the build uses swarm tactics (maybe not the best choice - as it causes the ships to want to operate at range 1 of eachother, a different pair of elite talent skills would let you operate within range 2 or 3 of eachother...) I admit, the list needs some tweaking when it comes to which talents and upgrades who gets..

The awesomeness points are as follows....

- Every ship can fire the blaster turret with focus

- Every ship can fire at PS 12

The tricks are as follows -

- One ship can get an extra attack die from Jan

- One ship can get an extra focus for defense from Kyle.

- slow and fast approach to start at range 2, will likely give kyle extra focus for defense.

- the blaster turret negates the need for an amazing dial.

This is a flight that wants its first engagement at range 2, but it does not have to aim for a head on pass - so you can focus on staying out of enemy firing arcs and fly indirectly. This group has no need for an Ion canon setup. With the slight defense upgrades - we have a synergistic group. I feel that dropping the swarm tactics trick may actually improve the squad as then there will no longer be a super clear target - especially with some re-arrangements to get the point values closer to eachother.

As this squad stands now - the primary target is a bit tough to determine - Do you go after Jan first - highest point value, and extra attack boost? Or do you go after Roark who is causing the ps 12 chain? Or Kyle, with his giant stack of focus, who is allowing other ships to turtle with extra focus - and also the ship least likely to care if you block him? This answer will depend on the opponent - I'd go for Roark first probably - but with roark gone, Jan and Kyle become turtles...

As an aside Kinetic - I'd also add the crew slot to your comparison above

I loved Jedi Knight multiplayer, particularly the Bespin map. Max out dark side to get Force Destruction, bait people into the shaft, and then repeatedly send them flying to their doom. I won many a match because I was the only one with a positive score.

Hell yeah, I used to play it multiplayer all the time. That and X-Wing Alliance are the only games I've ever really got into playing online.

Ravncat, I really don't think Jan with a blaster turret is a good idea, her pilot ability stresses her and the HWK has a pretty bad movement dial, anything that relies on you being able to take an action is probably a bad idea. Sure you'll want to green whenever possible to use here ability anyway but those times where you just can't it's better to still have an attack option. I'd personally upgrade her to an ion, same accuracy, less damage potential, but can help you avoid arcs and doesn't need a focus. To clear up the point maybe drop Roarks shield upgrade to a stealth device. Recon will still be good when she can focus so worth keeping overall.

Just my thoughts.

Jan definitely does better with an Ion.

I've been having fun flying this list:

REBEL SQUADRON 100/100
1 • Chewbacca - YT-1300 (42)
- Gunner (5)
• Total : 47
2 • Kyle Katarn - HWK-290 (21)
- Blaster Turret (4)
- Recon Specialist (3)
• Total : 28
3 • Gold Squadron Pilot - Y-wing (18)
- R5-D8 (3)
- Blaster Turret (4)
• Total : 25

Kyle is being sweet, taking Focus actions and tossing them out to Chewie and the Y-Wing so they don't have to choose it on their own.

The YT and the Y-Wing are both fairly tough, especially with Chewie in the YT.

EVERY ship is able to shoot 360.

The HWK is clearly less heavily armed.

A stock HWK has 1 die, no turret compared to a stock Y-Wing with 2 dice and no turret. You should compare apples to apples, especially since there is no reason at all that the Y-Wing couldn't sport the same turret as the HWK. Comparing a HWK with turret to a Y-Wing without, of course the HWK appears more heavily armed.

A HWK has 1 die, and space for a turret.

A Y-Wing has 2 dice, space for a turret, and space for 2 Torpedoes.

The Y-Wing is significantly better armed, much tougher, has less agility but a better dial and the space for an Astromech. It lacks elite pilot skills, the support abilities of the named HWK pilots, a crew slot, and costs more.

They seem pretty well balanced by points cost to me.

Edit: Forgot crew slot the first time. Added to the post. Thank you Ravncat.

Yeah, I pretty much regretted all that stuff as soon as I hit "Post". Sometimes my initial reaction to a mini outpaces my sense of logic.

I disagree. MotS had horrible level architecture and boring artistic design. After the variety of textures in JK and incredibly grand level architecture and set pieces, I was expecting something similar with MotS. Instead I got claustrophobic levels with unimaginative puzzles and a general feel of a fan-made expansion rather than something that was developed by the original developers. I don't know what happened to the design team, but they really didn't do well at all with that expansion.

I have to disagree. I loved MotS due to the better gameplay and weapons (mixing light & dark powers), seeking missiles and the Carbonite gun. Also, I thought the maps were great. Loved the Spaceport, freeze chamber, and Bespin Gantry maps. And, keeping on topic with this thread, it was the Spaceport map that had the Moldy Crow :-)

But to each their own - MotS will always have a special place in my heart.

Whether you choose Jan or Kyle, Ion Cannon or Blaster, you need a turret to have any offensive potential with the HWK. Without one you're just a pure support ship, which isn't the worst thing in the world... unless you suffer double crits like I did, and have to both discard your secondary weapon and ignore your pilot ability. That was rough.

The major reason I bring this up is because the HWK's lack of a K-turn is a pretty big drawback, making it difficult to bring that single attack die to bear if you absolutely must.

Concurred. You can certainly play one as pure support, but even the ion turret is a good investment, if only so you can make it a little easier to stay out of fire arcs and set your wingmen up for good flanking shots. Hard to argue with Kyle and a blaster turret as an awesome support ship and solid offensive contributor in one, though.