This is the starting equipment for each background:

Admin : Laspistol, robes, auto-quill, chrono, data-slate, medi-kit

Arbite : Shotgun, enforcer armour, 3 doses of stimm, manacles, 12 lho sticks
AAT : Laspistol, staff, robes, psy focus
Ad-Mech : Hand cannon, monotask servo-skull (utility) or optical mechadendrite, robes, staff, 2 vials of sacred unguents
Ministorum : Backpack, hand flamer, mesh armour, glow-globe, monotask servo-skull (utility)
Guard : Lasgun, combat vest, flak armour, grapnel and line, 12 lho sticks, magnoculars
Outcast: Autopistol, chainsword, hive leathers, injector, 2 dose of obscura, 1 dose of Desoleum fungus

There are a few things I find odd.

- Arbites start with shotguns. Which seems rather useless with their current rules.

- The Adeptus Mechanicus are the keepers of technology within the Imperium. Starting with a hand cannon, a weapon that probably has an equivalent in real life weaponry ( this giant pistol does exist ), instead of more high-tech weapon like the laspistol that Admin and AAT characters get, feels a bit wrong. Especially when they don't even start with las training.

- Arbites, Guardsmen and Outcasts start with addictive drugs. Which suggests that everyone from those backgrounds uses those drugs. That's one of the choices I prefer left in the hands of players.

- AAT characters all start with a psy-focus. Even if they aren't psykers.

- Ministorum characters start with a backpack. Guard characters don't. Aren't guardmen more likely to be hauling stuff around in a backpack ?

The shotgun is an arbitrator classic

The drugs for the guard might belong to their standard equipment - battle drugs are not uncommon.

For Outcasts this might be a stereotype ;D

Arbitrators have these drugs for...investigation issues only...of course! ;D

The mechanicus handcannon is not really the best choice...but I could not think of anything matching that is not too strong for starters either. Maybe you are right that the standard Laspistol (maybe good quality) would be better.

The AAT needs improvement - as well fr the psy-focus as for the psyniscience skill. There need to be alternatives for non-psykers.

The backpack for ministorum is odd and should be moved to guard indeed.

The ministorum character could get something flavourful like a small shrine or a book of sermons

The shotgun is an arbitrator classic

Or at least they seem to suck. I haven't play tested them.

The drugs for the guard might belong to their standard equipment - battle drugs are not uncommon.
For Outcasts this might be a stereotype ;D

Lho sticks are basically cigarettes and obscura is a hallucinogenic. Neither have any beneficial effect in combat.

Stimm and Desoleum fungus are a combat drugs. You do have a good point about stimm. It's a combat drug, so I can see it being issued to all arbites. But can it be used without an injector, or do arbites need to buy one before they can use their starting equipment.

As for desoleum fungus for outcasts, they are not an organized group. I can't see them all using the same drug. Especially when it's only sourced from a single planet.

Arbitrators have these drugs for...investigation issues only...of course! ;D

The mechanicus handcannon is not really the best choice...but I could not think of anything matching that is not too strong for starters either. Maybe you are right that the standard Laspistol (maybe good quality) would be better.

Even if I ignored balance issues, I doubt I could justify PCs starting with bolt/plasma weapons. While they are probably ad-mech members, at character creation they would be low ranked members.

Maybe it should be mentioned that GM&players should talk about individual equivalents, if matching better.

Regarding the shotgun: yes, it is bad at the moment.

But therefore I would not change the arbitrator starting weapon - I would change the shotgun stats.

Giving ad-mech characters a choice between a laspistol and the hand cannon would satisfy me. Giving a choice between the odd item and something else would fix all of these oddities except the shotgun, which needs a stat change. Maybe bring back scatter.

Yes, a shotgun-oriented scatter trait would be a nice thing to return.

Maybe a revamped version of it.

A PC starting with drugs could use them to "fix" informants?

"Here, pal. You look a little pale. Take a hit of this, calm down a bit, and then tell me about this ruthless, new-in-town narco-ganger...

Honestly anything would be a nice change over the current shotgun profile. Especially if it involved to a changing to simply "short, medium, long" range profile modifiers. In seriousness though, it's just a slightly more pointless flamer, and there's a LOT of options to fix it in the rules already let alone perfectly good ideas floating around on here. Fingers crossed they take the hint with the next update.

Totally agree. I would even prefer a bow over a shotgun at the moment

Seriously, the shotgun has to be buffed - and not only by improving damage (although 1-2 additional damage wouldnt be wrong), but by a unique trait for shotguns, like scatter.

Remove "Spray", bring a new "Scatter".

What was wrong with the starting equipment choices in DH1 ?

Because that would solve most of my complaints. For the characters that start with a pistol, give them a choice between a SP pistol* and a laspistol. Though the ad-mech would issue more laspistols to low ranking members, there would be some who get SP weapons. For the drugs, give a choice between the drug and something else. Even if the item has no mechanical function, it means that a character who doesn't use drugs (at the start) is an option. Same for the psy-focus.

It doesn't solve the backpack or shotgun, but the badckpack is a minor issue as it will be easily acquired by any group it matters for and the shotguns problem is not that it doesn't fit the fluff, but that it is mechanically terrible.

*Probably autopistol, as it looks like the best SP pistol for starting characters.

Yeah, against low-armoured / low-toughness characters, the autopistol can be a killer.

I definitely miss the 'this or that' choices in starting equipment from DH1 . Not only in terms of increased player input, but in some cases the options defined different directions for a PC. For instance, the DH2b Ministorium starting package includes a backpack, on the assumption that the character will be a travelling preacher. But if they had an option of a backpack or Ecclesiarchial vestments, you now have two very different approaches to the character: wandering preacher, or temple priest.

I think it's weird that they increase the options for character creation, while substantially limiting the options for starting equipment...

A PC starting with drugs could use them to "fix" informants?

"Here, pal. You look a little pale. Take a hit of this, calm down a bit, and then tell me about this ruthless, new-in-town narco-ganger...

Lho's aren't drugs in the sense you guys have been using the word. They're drugs in the same sense that a cup of recaf is a drug in the setting. One is a mild narcotic, the other is a mild stimulant. Neither one is going to affect your PC in any significant way.

Lho sticks are just 40K cigarettes. The big difference from real world cigs, is that a lho can have a slight calming effect on someone who isn't already addicted to them.

I also agree that the "Take this or that" choices were better.

No priority for me, but if the devs have some spare time, it would be nice to have that coice system back .

I also agree that the "Take this or that" choices were better.

No priority for me, but if the devs have some spare time, it would be nice to have that coice system back .

I agree. The old options were probably better, and it is slightly weird how chargen has grown more customizable and the backgrounds/roles are are more conceptually flexible, yet the gear options have been reduced (again, especially the AAT. That guy is so the party wizard ).

However, that said, at least in my group I don't think there's anyone who is still hanging on to their starting gear ten minutes into the first session (warning: slight exaggeration), so I don't really think it's a very big deal, either.

But still, there'd be people who didn't want to use lho-sticks. Certainly people who didn't want obscura.

Essentially, I agree. If the option is a laspistol, allow it to be swapped out for a stubber (autopistol may be a bit too good). If it's a bit of generic gear, add options like backpack/robes (good example).

To be honest, the only things that should be in the starting gear are stuff that a character WILL be issued with if he has that background, competent with it or not (like the guardsman's standard issue lasrifle/flak armour or the enforcer's shotgun/manacles) or things that a starting player would realistically ONLY get at initial character creation as part of that background (like enforcer carapace plate).

Everything else should be pared back in favour of player-defined items; don't hand me a bottle of amasec - if I want my Arbitrator to be an alcoholic, I'll pick one.

Possibly seperate item choices out - so X purchases of 'useful' bits of gear (like a compact revolver or a vox) and one or two purchases of 'flavour trinkets' like a book of prayer, skull in a shrine, uplifting primer, mercenary's license, bottle of amasec, lho-sticks, etc, etc.

And yes, either don't make the psy-focus mandatory for non-psykers, or move the psyker trait to sit at the AAT background (so any non-pskers around are technically not AAT, just associated administratum flunkies).

Why not give them just a very few items that EVERYONE ogf this background has, and additionally each one may chose an armour and a weapon of a certain availability ?

Honestly, I found the funny little items in the starting packs (at least in DH1) quite charming, and would much rather something like that is in than left out. But then, personally, when I read that my arbitrator starts with a bottle of amasec my brain automatically translates that into 'or something similar appropriate to the character' and not "my character is an alcoholic?? Raaaage!"

I think those little extra things are cute, and I think the rulebook would be poorer for not including them.

Why not a bottle of cheap amasec for everyone ?

Acolytes do really have enough reasons to drink, given the hororrs they face ;D

Alternatively they could just put in a little side bar saying "Some players may wish for other items for their character for roleplaying reasons. Religious symbols, something to feed their habits or similar. These items can be worked out with your GM like sensible adults."

But still, there'd be people who didn't want to use lho-sticks. Certainly people who didn't want obscura.

I get the feeling half the thread has more to do with how to approach a RPG, than with starting equipment lists, and that this should be addressed in one of the later chapters (GM section maybe?)

Equipment lists, starting & otherwise, can never be more than suggestions. There's no chance they can be an ideal fit for the things all the gaming groups out there gets up to.

To use a classic I personally hate as example: the campaign starts with the acolytes stripped, bound & gagged somewhere, with no idea how they got there.

For this to work, you need to disregard starting equipment & acquisition.

The same thing goes for personality type stuffs. If your character is a Sin City style Arbites Enforcer, giving her a smoking habit probably is a good idea that enhances her image. If your character is the malcontent sone of some spire lord, stuck in the Arbites by Daddy-O, smoking lho's might not be very fitting at all. An Obscura habit, on the other hand, might very well be.

That the rules offer suggestions is a good thing. But if they're interpreted as mandatory, then it really isn't. The more help players get to define their PCs, the better. But only the player should define her PC. Not everything is a good fit for every type of game, so of course the rest of the group should say no to stuff that won't play well. But ultimately each player should define their own character. They're the ones who have to play them.

...

I agree the starting equipment lists get a bit silly in spots. Psy-Foci for non-psykers. No mercy blade for psykers. Pretty much everyone gets shafted in the "basic field gear" department...

Why not make it even more flexible. Each character can start with a few items that they would definitely have coming out of their profession. Then they can pick a few other items from a list.

Example: Guardsman

Starts with: Imperial Infantryman's Handbook, Guardsman dogtags, Lasrifle and Flak armour. Pick two more items from the following list:

Backpack

Llosticks (12)

Bottle of Amasac (1)

Magnoculars

Bayonet

Autopistol

Two extra clips of ammo or charge packs

That's pretty cool, Elior. My only suggestion would be to include some options to reflect different directions, like giving the Guardsman a Dress Uniform option in case the player is creating an officer-type instead of a foot-slogger.

I'd say in terms of guardsmen, flak is fairly universal, even among officer types, it might just look different. As far as uniform goes, I'd say just include an entry in the gear section stating that every character receives a set of clothing befitting their background. That'd cover things nicely.

I'm all for more options and it's relatively simple to do it. When we say "he's a guardsman", there is always the question of what kind of guardsman? There are medics, heavy weapons specialists, demolition specialists, pilots, vehicle operators, scouts, snipers, and that doesn't even include certain "named" veteran regiments that are notorious for their reputation such as the Cadian Shock Troops, Catachan Jungle Fighters, Death Korps of Krieg, and Maccabian Janissaries just to name a few. All of those elite regiments would certainly start with different gear.