Maester_LUke said:

I am confused. The outcomes of GenCon, where you handed me my only two losses of day (Swiss, and the championship)? Or the 100 other times I owned you? j/k - you would dig this con the most...a lot more drinking than GenCon...

I was a little confused with the second line as well. Were you saying you wanted to share a room with yourself?

Sorry, I'm not sure how many times have we actually played _the game_ with each other Matt? Aside from you Dooming me out (and I freely admit I opened myself up to that in a feeble attempt at drawing into a desperation answer) at Kubla last time, when else did we play? I can't even remember if we played in Madison in 07. Not that I remember much about that day either... 'Course maybe I've been blanking out all those other bad memories.

And as for the second half, having a choice between Casey, Greg, John, yourself, and Sam, I'm pretty sure I'd take that svelte Californian over even myself.

cha0s said:

Just remember you have a melee to fight in the next day young man!

I'm seriously digging the love that this thread is getting form the lurkers. I'm hoping some of the South Bay crew will be able to make it.

I bought my pass last night and now I'm all fired up to see everyone. I just need to build some decks now!

All this talk makes a man consider spending a crazy amount of money and come out of retirement to throw down...

Braz, you KNOW you would dig it! You always have a good time with us!

Oh, and I am recruiting Rave and Wyndwalker to play, that is a given. I just promised to drink with them at all hours.

Oh I know a man would dig it, but a man has bills to pay and limited time to travel this summer. A man is considering a trip to the NW in August....

Still looking for copies of those plots...did anyone confirm they will be brining them for me? I like piece of mind. And a good piece of...better not go there.

der.... forgot to check my collection.

I'll see what I have and give you a count.

JerusalemJones said:

I've heard this before, but I don't agree with it. Everything they did mattered up to that point... they just allowed someone else to get to a position to take the decision out of their hands. This is the point in the game where picking titles to support the 2nd place person can be of incredible importance. You can defend that unoppossed challenge yourself completely screwing that plan. I always try and include effects that will let me disrupt an attack or defense in my melee decks for precisely this kind of situation.

A person can't king make unless the table lets them get to a position to do so. It fits right with why I hate wiping a single opponents board, sure I get to power farm him, but so does everyone else. People, even those who play and enjoy melee regularly, still look at it from a very linear perspective, that it is a series of 1v1 games rather than a series of 3v1 games.

The whole dynamic between 2nd and 3rd place just irks me.... especially at the end of the game.

If you're sitting in 3rd, do you attack the person who's about to run away with the game, or jockey for position by beating up the 2nd place guy? If you're in 2nd, do you try to win the game by taking out the guy in first (possibly over extending and risking your 2nd place points), or do you play it safe and focus on the guy in 3rd? It's all risk vs. reward, which I like. I just don't think the rules encourage people enough to go for first place.

The way I see it, if I'm in second, what interest does the guy in 3rd have in taking out the guy in 1st? None. Unless he has a chance at ending up in 1st himself, he'd just be helping me get closer to first. His smartest play is to try and weaken my possition (and hopefully get some help from the guy in 1st who's trying to keep me in 2nd). The guy in 4th is always a wildcard because 9 times out of 10 he's just looking to cause damage anywhere he can. I guess I prioritize my threats at the table durring each round. Most games I've played the player in 1st just keeps getting bigger and bigger while the players in 2nd and 3rd fight over points.

But, the entire dynamic of the game changes at the final table. It becomes what it should be. A game where everyone is playing for first. Who's in 2nd or 3rd doesn't matter as much because everyone is going after the big cheese. These are the best games, and it's a shame you only see them at the final table IMHO.

I think that in our games, generally speaking, is that everyone is trying for 1st, right up until the last round or two when it becomes obvious where everyone lies in relation, and then everyone tries to pull the first player down to better their chances of moving up the ladder.

If you think about it, unless time is going to be called, 3rd and 4th should be ganging up on the 1st place player to extend the game which is their only chance of moving up enough to really matter. 1st trying to fight off 2nd rather than going for his own final push bogs him down against the person who is most likely to have the next strongest board position. Now if 3rd and 4th try and attack 2nd they open themselves up in their weaker board position to be farmed by the first player and have the game end, and possibly lose any power they gained from the 2nd player. It just seems safer to play for the win where they are concerned.

The real struggle comes in with what do you do if you are in 2nd? Do you try and farm the 3rd and maybe 4th places hoping to keep them far enough away to secure your own 2nd place? Do you attack the 1st player all out hoping to pull ahead? Do you defend the 1st player by kneeling out the 3rd and 4th places so the 1st can get the win?

It is all these interactions that make melee so fascinating to me. I don't look at king making as king making, I look at it in what do I need to do to get more power and defend it from everyone else so when the game ends I have the most I can possibly have.

I haven't played AGoT since October, but there's a couple reasons aside from The Only Game that I'd want to make it out to Kubla.

Flights are currently pretty cheap. If my friends still have crashspace in their hotel room, you may be seeing me there.

Would love to see you, Red Woman!

Flights are pretty affordable everyone...you could learn from this lady...

~Notice Rings said flights were "affordable" and the Red Woman said they were "cheap". Just saying ....

thebraz said:

~Well, that is the difference between us. I am "affordable", while she is...never mind...

jeeeez. this is almost worse then the nhl thread....

Lars said:

Why...? Lurkers? I had to go check out the NHL thread again to see what comparison could be made...

I love it when I see people come out of the woodwork, no matter what the subject

the smack talk...compared to nhl threads of yore.

hey fellas, well i think that i'm good to go for kubla, but i'm not to sold on playing yet cuz i havn't picked up any chapter packs so my deck is well... out of date, anyone think they could help with a little Stark Rejuvination?

dormouse said:

I think this is why I love so many other 3+ player games, and hate melee AGoT. Tourney games should have only two outcomes IMHO, win or lose. I play an insane amount of a multi player magic format called Elder Dragon Highlander, amazing format for the casual card gamer. And in my 100s of games, I have never really seen someone play for second. People try to win, and IMO thats how it should be. To quote (or missquote no doubt ;P ) a book that some of you may have heard of "When you play the game of thrones you win or you die, there is no middle ground."

Anyhow... uh KUBLA!

Yeah, I think in some ways tournament melee is about jockeying for position through the swiss play instead of going for the win. Sometimes being out in front makes you a bigger target, and it may be possible to make it to the final table with a bunch of 2nd place finishes. Stand alone melee games are always about the win, not the place, which makes "practice" game, well, bad practice. I prefer to play for a win, and prehaps that is my problem -- instead of going for the current gain (which might be a 2nd place finish) I always go for the win. I don't like to play games to come in second.

Boy, you folks are making me wish there was a major con or event coming up in the MN area (besides the possible MO Regional, that I know I can't make).

Like most things in life it is a matter of perspective.

I view a melee tournament not as half a dozen wars but one long power struggle. Each table is about positioning myself to take the throne. Littlefinger is a great example, rather than trying to force his way through the front door, he is happy to work the long game. The fact that he is still alive and so many others are not is proof enough that his method is effective.

I understand why people prefer the idea of a winner takes all approach to multi-player, and in any other game I would be adding my voice to yours. In A Game of Thrones though, it just feels right to be able to jockey for position until it is time to strike in the endgame.

Flights are definitely 'reasonable' (there, everyone happy?) at 190, but the only crash space with my friends left is a bathtub, and I'll pass on that. No go for me this year, perhaps next year if I give my buddies a heads-up a little sooner.

Just remembered I have a free ticket from getting bumped... but do I really want to hang out with you guys?

News!!!

The weekend has now OFFICIALLY been named a Regional!!! Regional prize support and everything.

Thanks to Eric Lind and Nate for making this happen.

Now what is your excuse, Mr. Luke-hotty-pants? Huh? Wyndwalker will even buy you a drink he said...

Woo-hoo!