Got my first games in with my wave 3 ships from Gen Con. I ran the following lists:

B-Wing, Heavy Laser, Fire Control System, Advanced Torp

B-Wing, Autoblaster, Proton Torp

Jan Ors, Squad Leader, Ion Cannon Turret

Played against Vader w/ Squad Leader, Concussion Missile, Tempest Squadron w/ Concussion Missile, Backstabber, 2x Academy pilots.

I wouldn't normally load up ships with that many upgrades, but I wanted to test out a bunch of the new stuff.

The low defense dice in the list hurt badly,as both missiles got through with 4 hits and no evades to even take the edge off - so the more expensive B-Wing and Jan both took heavy damage early (despite trying to keep Jan away form the action). I was able to vaporize one of the ties with a 6 dice Advanced torp mid game, but the early game 5 Dice proton torp didn't really do anything (3 blanks and 2 eyeballs). Once the furball really started, all the red maneuvers on the b-wings really started to come into play - I never really got to use target locks or focus because I was either stressed or having to barrel roll to even get a shot off.

Overall the lack of the maneuverability on the B-Wings means if you don't deal significant damage early, you're probably not going to make it up in the late game with good flying. I'll try them a bunch more, but so far I'm not that impressed.

Moving on to the imperial side, I ran this:

Tempest Squadron w/ Cluster Missile

Tempest Squadron w/ Cluster Missile

Scimitar Squadron w/ Proton Torp

Captain Jonus w/ Ptl and Homing Missile

Played against Wedge, Rookie, Prototype, Gold Squadron / Ion

Jonus and the Scimitar squadron flew behind the Tempest Squadrons. First volley of missiles took down the Rookie (homing missile + primary weapon from Tempest) and Wedge (6 hits from cluster missiles thanks to rerolls from Jonus dealt 4 damage + primary weapon from Scimitar Squadron did one damage). Later in the game, the Second Cluster missile took down the A-Wing and I never got to fire the Proton Torp from the Scimitar squadron due to targets going down so fast and the Y Wing being so close,

Overall the bomber has enough durability to get a secondary weapon off, and after that its like flying a less maneuverable Fighter. Given the first strike power of the list, I'd really like to increase the pilot skills some so I can kill lower skilled pilots before they can shoot, but the only way to really do that would be to trade the Tempest Squadrons for Gamma Squadron bombers. I only have 2 bombers at the moment and the Tempest certainly is a better dog fighter than the bomber, so I'm not sure its the best move.

I think your squad's weaknesses were exploited by the opposing squad. Let's review them:

-Your beefiest rebel ship has little defensive capability (lots of points that sink fast) making it a fragile glass cannon who is naturally the main target

vs Vader who also has the most points sinked into it, but has excellent survivability

-There's a bad, very costy interference between wanting to use HLC and the advanced proton torpedo. Your heart is in the right place to use HLC+FCS+APT but it needs a squad dedicated to defending that ship. Same deal with auto blaster turret and a regular PT. I would have chosen only one of them for each B-Wing and tried to get another ship, if possible, to spread the squad points around (maybe a natural green squad pilot flanker? maybe a Biggs bodyguard). I don't remember all the costs of all the ships and upgrades you chose (could you please list them?)

vs

all the imperial squad has to do is to fly smart and not be pressured at all into using secondary weapons and not bat an eye even if a ship is demolished without a chance of getting a shot.

-APT used on a TIE fighter - it's more effective to use it against a TIE advanced, for sure.

Cheers for the info, how do you feel jan ors performed? And do you have a shuttle to try?

I agree with Mu0n about the HLC + APT. I know people are all about dealing damage, but if the B-wing is so hard to maneuver perhaps Ion Cannon is better than HLC. I've been contemplating running two Blue Squadron Pilots with Ion Cannon, Fire-Control Systems and Advanced Proton Torpedoes. That leaves 34 points to dump into another ship.

But I enjoyed the battle report, Endgame124. I am so excited to try out TIE bombers! And it's interesting that in a few reports I've read it seems the generic TIE Advanced pilots are seeing more table time now. I look forward to getting some experience with the advanced and the bombers to be able to compare and contrast them. I like your comment that the TIE advanced is a better dogfighter.

I have been thinking that the Ion Cannon might be an excellent addition to a B-Wing. Add a Fire Control System, and you have a 5 point upgrade that at range 3 gives you a free target lock and probably puts your opponent in an excellent position to eat a focused Advanced Proton Torpedo next turn. If that were all it did it would be overpriced, but considering the B-Wing's dial it might be very good at nailing targets in place so you can turn into them and hammer away with your heavy primaries.

I think that while your Imperial list is very solid, your Rebel list has some serious holes in it. What you have is 2 heavy damage dealers who are easy to kill, with another ship that's easy to kill, who simply increases your damage dealer's damage. When you have so much damage potential already...it's hard to see why you need Jan Ors. Also, as others have stated, the HLC +APL, and Auto+Torps (while making sense on page) are enormous amounts of points for something that won't get to shoot many times. It may help to assume that this 1 agility, 8 health ship is going to die within 3 rounds of firing, which means you'll get to shoot your Cannon once or twice, which is probably not worth the points.

However - you yourself stated that you wanted to try out a bunch of new stuff. I can completely understand that. But i believe that there is where your biggest problem is. You only have Wave 3 ships, and primarily wave 3 upgrades. For reference, compare it to your imperial list which is mixed very effectively between Wave 1 and Wave 3. They slaughter, while a Solely Wave 3 fleet gets demolished. I have no doubt that B-wings are quite happy to be run without upgrades, or with only a couple cheap ones, along with some ships that negate their weaknesses (X-wings, A-wings), instead of only increasing their attack power.

I loved your battle reports, but i'd Really like to see how B-wings perform against a more typical Imp list, and with better wingmen.

I agree with Mu0n about the HLC + APT. I know people are all about dealing damage, but if the B-wing is so hard to maneuver perhaps Ion Cannon is better than HLC. I've been contemplating running two Blue Squadron Pilots with Ion Cannon, Fire-Control Systems and Advanced Proton Torpedoes. That leaves 34 points to dump into another ship.

But I enjoyed the battle report, Endgame124. I am so excited to try out TIE bombers! And it's interesting that in a few reports I've read it seems the generic TIE Advanced pilots are seeing more table time now. I look forward to getting some experience with the advanced and the bombers to be able to compare and contrast them. I like your comment that the TIE advanced is a better dogfighter.

That is the other iteration of the B-Wing that I want to fly. BSP + FCS + ion for a cool 27 points. It is a better ion carrier than Y-Wings in some instances.

As far as the APT + HLC, you are mixing your stuff up man. Take the HLC or a torp, but not both. You gain one dice over a regular primary weapon attack but you can gain that back from Jan. You still have the 5 points left over too. Also, use barrel roll to your advantage more often when you can.

Per the request on points:

Jan 25 + Ion Turret 5 + Squad Leader 2 = 32

Blue Squadron 22 + Autoblaster 5 + Proton Torp 4 = 31

Blue Squadron 22 + HLC 7 + Advanced PT 6 + FCS 2 = 37

I agree the squad was not optimal, but it was about the best way to test everything in one pass. I had intended to take both blue squadrons with minimal upgrades - Fire control system and Advanced proton torp on one and Advanced sensors on the other, but that left me with 13 points left over and a big question as to how Advanced Sensors and Red maneuvers interacted. So, I just upped the gear on the Blue Squadrons instead. This was probably the right decision anyway as it gave me some experience stacking Jan with secondary weapons (cool) and with late game dog fighting (terrible - give me a PtL green squadron any day).

As for Jan, I can't think of a single ship you could take that would have a bigger target on his head, and with such limited defensive capability I don't think he is going to be worth it in most cases. At 25 points base you have a ship that can't really fight on its own that you can't really make any more survivable without making it an even larger portion of your list. You're looking at 29 points if you want to be able to shoot, 33 points if you want to shoot and have chewie, and 36 points if you want to shoot, have chewie, and a stealth device - would you like to boost another ship by 1 attack die, or have an upgraded wedge in a game? I think about the best way you could make Jan work is to stack in multiple ships and hand out the extra die to who ever has the best shot - Maybe Jan w/ Ion Turret & Squad Leader + 2 rookies + Biggs?

I do have the shuttle to try, but i think it really wants to have a squad built around it and I wanted to try the bombers.

Yeah your Rebel one is a tough list. Lots of easy targets.

It's not a B-Wing list, more a Jan list, but here's one I want to try out:
Jan Ors + Squad Leader + Flight Instructor + Shield Upgrade
Wedge + Expose + generic R2

Biggs + R2-F2 + Stealth Device

Stealth device won't last long, but everything is just about keeping Biggs out there an extra turn if possible, giving Wedge time to play Death Star. Jan can give her action to Wedge to help his offense (Expose, Focus, or Target Lock), or Biggs to help his defense (R2-F2 or Focus) as needed turn by turn. Then Jan will hopefully stick around an extra turn with the help of Flight Instructor and a shield boost. All about just surviving or avoiding that one extra hit.

And then Wedge. Ah, Wedge. R2 is just there to hit 100 (you could drop him to try and get initiative) and let him shake stress once his wingmen are gone and he's juking and jiving to stay alive.

Now a lot of people hate on Expose, and rightly so, but here's what it's doing; Jan lets him Expose free, giving him a Target lock for rerolls or a Focus in case he rolls eyeballs. He's rolling 3 dice + 1 from Jan + 1 from expose for 5 attack dice, + 1 for 6 attack dice at range 1. He also subtracts 1 from your defense.

Marksmanship is a perfectly viable substitute, because you trade off 1 attack die for an uber focus that ups the odds of landing at least one crit - nasty versus things like TIEs. But I do like Expose just for the sheer chutzpah of rolling 5 or 6 dice against someone.

If you can keep Biggs alive long enough for Wedge to get off a couple of shots, you're going to have good odds of killing or crippling anything not on a large base - and probably ruining their day as well. And then if you can keep Jan alive long enough for Wedge to get off another shot or two, by the time you're down to just Wedge you should have thinned the opposing ranks pretty severely by that point.

PS - Apropos of absolutely nothing, I believe Jan is a woman, for what it's worth.

Yeah your Rebel one is a tough list. Lots of easy targets.

It's not a B-Wing list, more a Jan list, but here's one I want to try out:

Jan Ors + Squad Leader + Flight Instructor + Shield Upgrade

Wedge + Expose + generic R2

Biggs + R2-F2 + Stealth Device

FYI, Jan can't squad leader Wedge - Wedge is higher pilot skill.

I've been noodling on how to get wedge in with Jan, and this is the best I've come up with

Jan Ors + Ion Cannon

Wedge + Marksmanship + R2D2 + Shield Upgrade

Dutch + Ion Cannon

Dutch sets up the Marksmanship + target lock combo with Wedge, and Jan feeds it with an extra attack die every round. Hopefully wedge can pull through the initial focused fire to continue to cause havoc while the 2 Ion Cannons disrupt enemy maneuvering.

Just to mention, Jan is PS 8 so she won't be able to use Squad Leader to boost Wedge.

edit: ninja'd

This is good to hear because I'm kind of afraid to see B-Wings as the Imperial player in proper hands. What will really make them shine is having a pair of them on support with something like X-Wings to keep any fighters with better maneuverability off their back.

Meanwhile Bombers rely on ordinance, which up until now has only infrequently been successful in my case, though that was against Imperial targets.

I don't think I'd use Advanced Proton Torpedoes. 5-hit is amazing but it requires range 1 and a focus token. Autoblasters on the other hand deny an enemy from cancelling your normal hits, which with a target lock you could get more of. The autoblaster is cheaper by one point, re-useable, and doesn't force you to discard the Target Lock you could get from the ATC.

Evade 1 is going to be your weakness but it just means picking off the most damage-dealing targets first (Interceptors, any ordinance carriers). If you have a Sensor Jammer on I gather it's going to negate most of a TIE swarm's attacks on your ships (if they keep performing the "average roll" of a Focus, Hit, and a Blank). And if all of them are choosing focus actions it leaves them wide open to un-canceled hits by the Autoblaster.

Good catch, guys, thanks. I could definitely give her Veteran Instincts and free up a few points to give Wedge a Stealth Device or something. That would let her SQL him and give him a bit of extra survival once Biggs goes down.

Except you can't have both SQL and VI on Jan at the same time.

Considering her ability and value mostly come from her special ability, and that ability is not affected by PS, I would suggest going with Determination rather than Vet Instincts for that 1 point. It would be very frustrating to lose her ability to a lucky crit, and with only 1 shield HWKs are quite vulnerable to crits. Besides, 8 PS is still very good.

What about:

Except you can't have both SQL and VI on Jan at the same time.

Considering her ability and value mostly come from her special ability, and that ability is not affected by PS, I would suggest going with Determination rather than Vet Instincts for that 1 point. It would be very frustrating to lose her ability to a lucky crit, and with only 1 shield HWKs are quite vulnerable to crits. Besides, 8 PS is still very good.

Curse you and your undeniable logic!

i'm new to the game but here's my thought's of a B list

blue squad (22) + ion canon (3) + FCS (2)= 27

blue squad (22) + ion canon (3) + FCS (2)= 27

green squad (19) + marksmanship / push the limits (3) = 22

green squad (19) + marksmanship / push the limits (3) = 22

total = 98

basically you're going to use the A's to swoop in and tie up enemies while the B's take care of those that survive the A's attack.

as for the the extra 2 points is for modification to the list according to play style, by either promoting 1 of the blue to dagger, sacrificing marksmanship / push the limits for missiles, switching the A's to X's changing maneuverability for toughness and basic fire power etc...

Once I acquire my Bs I will be trying the following:

Rookie 21

Rookie 21

Blue Squadron + HLC 29

Blue Squadron + HLC 29

Rookie 21

Rookie 21

Wedge 29

Blue Squadron + HLC 29

X-Wings make nice wingmen =) Basically I will be trying to pound from range with Bs and then protect/pound up close with Xs. The Wedge List will likely more aggressive with the HLC supporting.

I expect both these to work pretty well.

The first list looks like a very effective one. HLC is solid with low PS ships since it doesn't need a TL, and you are throwing a ton of dice at any range. The second one looks like it would suffer from the "Wedge dies first" drawback of many Rebel lists.

The first list looks like a very effective one. HLC is solid with low PS ships since it doesn't need a TL, and you are throwing a ton of dice at any range. The second one looks like it would suffer from the "Wedge dies first" drawback of many Rebel lists.

Agreed. I could see going another pilot instead of Wedge, maybe Garvin to support the B, plus some other upgrades. Just a jumping off point =).

i'm new to the game but here's my thought's of a B list

blue squad (22) + ion canon (3) + FCS (2)= 27

blue squad (22) + ion canon (3) + FCS (2)= 27

green squad (19) + marksmanship / push the limits (3) = 22

green squad (19) + marksmanship / push the limits (3) = 22

total = 98

basically you're going to use the A's to swoop in and tie up enemies while the B's take care of those that survive the A's attack.

as for the the extra 2 points is for modification to the list according to play style, by either promoting 1 of the blue to dagger, sacrificing marksmanship / push the limits for missiles, switching the A's to X's changing maneuverability for toughness and basic fire power etc...

Seems like your strategy is backwards, but I think it's an interesting list. You'd have the B-wings slow-rolling it up the field, blasting with ion while the A-wings can flank the ioned ships without getting hit in return. And if the enemy gets too close you switch to primaries and clean up. So it's the B-wings doing the tying up and the A-wings finishing off the injured ships at range 1. I think Push The Limit will be the better upgrade on the Green Squadron Pilots.

i'm new to the game but here's my thought's of a B list

blue squad (22) + ion canon (3) + FCS (2)= 27

blue squad (22) + ion canon (3) + FCS (2)= 27

green squad (19) + marksmanship / push the limits (3) = 22

green squad (19) + marksmanship / push the limits (3) = 22

total = 98

basically you're going to use the A's to swoop in and tie up enemies while the B's take care of those that survive the A's attack.

as for the the extra 2 points is for modification to the list according to play style, by either promoting 1 of the blue to dagger, sacrificing marksmanship / push the limits for missiles, switching the A's to X's changing maneuverability for toughness and basic fire power etc...

I love the idea of this list! But I think that it would be shortsighted to put Marksmanship on an A-wing, just because of the 2 attack power, and Push the Limit increases their survivability drastically, as well as increasing their accuracy.

As Parakitor mentioned, the B-wings are going to be the main target (likely) so the A-wings aren't going to be tying anything up, but they will be excellent ships to have on the tail, as they can take it slow, boost to range 1 and still focus/TL. B-wings have decent survivability and will be making some beautiful targets for those a-wings with the Ion cannons. I would take Advanced Sensors over the Fire Control System though, cause if you're gunna bump, you get an action, or can barrel roll out of it, and i just generally think it enhances your options.

I will definitely be running this list though, these are my two favorite ships, and i have high hopes this squad will work well.

Agreed. Looks effective, but also fun to play, which is good! I've generally played Imperial because I find that side more fun, even when I lose.

thanks for the comments, i would like to know how my list would work since it would be a really long while before wave 3 reach my neck of the woods, and i wouldn't want to know how the B's fair before i plop down on 2.

and i know that x wings are better crafts as wing-men but i have a real soft spot for them A's.

plus geting to beat your opponent with a Swedish pop group is always awesome sauce

We've played a few games with the B's the last few weeks and it is interesting, our big B-Wing fan is also planning a two A and two B list.

I'm not too sure about Marksmanship on the A's. So few dice, I feel like I never get my money's worth with them. But I think Expose might be an interesting option. Like many have said, people will be lining up for shots on the B-Wings, you might have good shots where you aren't in anyone's arc. But PTL is a solid choice, too.

B-Wings and TIE Bombers definitely have a terror-factor. So far they've been the main targets for opponents in our games.