http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=479

A few notable changes:

• Definition of "empty spaces" has been fixed. Chests, glyphs, potions, coin piles, and rune keys make a space "not empty." Corruption does not, but the corruption goes away if you play a trap in that space (I assume this is because they don't want multiple obstacles layered on top of each other--can anyone think of a Trap (Space) card that doesn't create a token?)
• Ironskin vs. Sorcery was ruled differently from every guess I can recall reading. Sorcery spent on range can still affect figures with Ironskin (and yes, Laurel can convert that to damage), but the Ironskin's protection against damage extends to all figures affected by the attack--you can't spend Sorcery on damage at all if any affected figure has Ironskin.
• You now officially cannot spend fatigue for extra attack dice after the OL plays a Dodge card.
• Leap: Leaps now explicitly consume all remaining movement points (whether you make an attack or not), and you can't initiate a Leap while Grappled. You cannot stop a figure mid-Leap (you can only use a Guard order before or after, and can't Grapple them mid-Leap). Also, Ghost now makes you immune to all Leap attacks.

There's lots of other stuff in there, too.

A couple notable problems:

• The text that was red in version 1.4 is still red, even though most of it didn't change (though some of it did--read carefully).
• The very confusing ruling for large monsters and terrain is still there, apparently unchanged.
• The question for Shadow Soul vs. Swallow is still technically two questions with one answer.
• The file name still has the March 9 date of the aborted release, and says v1.3, even though we've had v1.4 for a long time...?

Overall, I'm fairly happy. Certainly much better than the one we got two weeks ago, and either they're actively reading the forum, or a lot of the things we're discussing are getting sent in to them. Still a few things I'd like to see addressed, though.

Its labelled 1.3, which is mildly confusing when the last FAQ was labelled 1.4...

There is also a questions page for sending questions directly to FFG!
I'd still suggest we thrash things out here first then send in a question with a link to the appropriate thread, rather than bombard FFG with endlessly same questions from newbies, and to avoid getting wierd, unconsidered snap answers which have deeper impacts.

...got to love the Ironskin ruling. "'Its ok little fur-ling' says the Golem, 'my skin is iron so when the nasty little mage throws his explosion between us you won't get hurt...'"

Dark charm and Command now react wierdly. Heroes now ignore hero command - including their own (yet other skills are not affected ? - stupid) but get the benefit of Monster Command.

The aforementioned Dodge ruling is not even answering the question asked (which was admittedly a pretty silly question. It also internally makes a leap from 'does not allow' (meaning this card does not creat the opportunity, from context) to 'prevents' with no basis. I guess once the OL plays a dodge the heroes can 'interrupt' the dodge to add extra dice before rerolling them all?

Props that are also obstacles defined. (Good job - also good job on the empty space clarification).

Leap now using MP means that Leapers can no longer escape Grapple (though they ignore it mid leap, assumabely because the MP are all spent at the start of the leap). (Good sensible rulings for all of Leap IMO.)

Avatars can Ready and heroes are never immune to Avatar's attacks. No more Ghost vs melee, Ironskin vs Blast/breath etc.
Hero Guard orders cannot be used before Titan's Stomp.

OL deck cycling ejection changed to twice in the same level - does not include OL's Keep.

Telekinesis and Bear Tattoo, Poltergeist and Rolling Boulder removed from RtL. Crushing Blow restricted to 1.

RtL level 9 the Prison - cells count as 'unrevealed' for the purposes of spawning (ie, can start a monster there, but cannot spawn inside)

Heroes attacking a Lt(s) at a town must encounter the Lt(s) first before visiting now!

Feats in RtL as per ToI for everything except Avatar battles (no feats in Avatar battles). <shakes head dismally> That is utterly the end of RAW RtL for me. No one will ever agree to play the OL unless the heroes are so incompetent that they could lose without any OL anyway.
Edit: Actually, I take that back. Without Telekinesis or Grapple the balance will change dramatically, so feats might just be a suitable balancing factor. Certainly removing Telekinesis and Grapple are HUGE, compared to removing Poltergeist (sad, sniff) and Rolling Boulder. This might actually be a better game with feats instead I think... Time will tell for sure, but I think GOOD JOB, even on this. (Certainly happy to see the end of the ridiculous Telekinesis which saw Alric teke'd by a runner from the furthest corner of the map to the centre of the heroes camp so the other three heroes could battle him. He only survived (with 3/60 wounds courtesy of the last attack having 3 blanks on the power dice) because the Mage only had a Blast rune left and had to borrow a Ranged weapon instead!)

There are a few things to clean up still :

"Q: The rulebook states that a lieutenant or hero must end their movement in the same location to attack each other?
A: No."

Err, what?

I think they meant to rule that you don't have to change location in order to encounter the party / a lieutenant, but some lines seem to be missing...

There are definitely still things that could be resolved.

I do disagree with the Ironskin extending to cover all figures being affected by an AoE attack, but that's a designer's call.

I do wish that they had just completely removed the Large Monsters and Terrain section.

Changes I noticed:

1) I think the change to the timing of the OL Dodge card is the right one, and is IMO very clear. Once the attack is rolled and Dodge is played by the OL, no more adding dice or changing dice with fatigue. I might be in the minority on this one, but the fact that you could add dice after the OL plays Dodge made it weak IMO.

2) I like the rulings on Leap, making it less ambigiuos for what happens to movement points.

3) The ruling that Avatar attacks basically go right through a number of defensive skills and abilities will be interesting to keep an eye on for what affect this has on the Final Battle. Especially coupled with being able to place orders and no Feats for the Heroes.

4) The Overlord's Deck ruling: This is a MAJOR change, at least to what has always been my understanding of the how it works. I was always under the impression that it was three times through the deck and the heroes are ejected over the course of the whole dungeon . Now, its twice through on a dungeon level , not the whole dungeon . I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't think of a single time I've gone through the deck twice on a single level. But I could have also been wrong originally.

5) The ruling on page 12 about not being able to visit town, fight Lts or pruchase upgrades. Am I wrong or is this a change from what it used to be?

Lastly, I think right now we need to figure out exactly what this one entry means and settle it as a community:

Q: The rulebook states that a lieutenant or hero must end their movement in the same location to attack each other?
A: No.

Do we as a community think this means (and some of these might be...well stupid readings of it):

A) No, the rulebook never states that.

B) No, the Lts and Hero do not have to end their movement in the same location to attack each other.

C) No, the Lts and Hero do not have to move in order to attack one another

D) They still have to move, but can attack first and then move.

I'm really hoping it means C (I think, hell the answer has me so confused I'm not even sure about my own options)

@Antistone: In regards to the question about Shadowsoul and Swallow, doesn't a "No" to the first part negate the second half of the question? Swapping with a Hero would be the only way for Shadowsoul to end up in the stomach tile, correct? So if it can't be swapped, doesn't the second question become meaningless?

Big Remy said:

1) I have no problem with it, except that it brings up another question. Can the hero interrupt the dodge to roll more dice before the dodge is resolved?
If not it makes Dodge now incredibly powerful. Any attack that 'just fails' where the hero would normally add a dice or two with fatigue now auto fails with a dodge!

5) Yes, its a change.

Q: I think the missing line is something like "Does the initiating Party/Lt have to change location in order to attack?" Meaning the answer would be C) (though I think yours is ambigously worded and should be "C) No, a Lt/Party does not have to physically move in order to attack one another, just do a move action")

Corbon said:

1) I have no problem with it, except that it brings up another question. Can the hero interrupt the dodge to roll more dice before the dodge is resolved?
If not it makes Dodge now incredibly powerful. Any attack that 'just fails' where the hero would normally add a dice or two with fatigue now auto fails with a dodge!

Me: Forgive me please, I am having massive comprehension issues for some reason even though I'm sure what you are saying is clear. Can the hero interrupt the playing of the Dodge card with what? What could the Hero use, a Feat card? The way I think it is worded is that the once the Hero is done adding dice and has made it clear and the OL plays Dodge, that's it.

I have this feeling I'm missing something in your statement I should be getting, sorry

Corbon said:

Yeah I agree about my bad wording. Again, I think I have a large percentile of neurons completely done for the night in my brain right now.

It seems clear enough to me that you can't just jump in with dodge as soon as the initial dice are rolled - you have to wait until the hero is finished adding dice with fatigue:

"Once all dice are done being rolled, the Overlord may play the dodge card."

I don't see the overlord deck ruling as a major change - I believe its intention was to prevent the heroes forcing the final battle at a time of their choosing (by sitting in town and refusing to flee, so the deck cycles until 600CT), and it still does that. I dont think it was ever meant to be something for the overlord to aim for, just a safeguard against this (unsportsmanlike imo) tactic. I can't find the previous ruling (it may have only ever been on forums), but it was indeed 3 times through in a dungeon, or 4 in a rumour or legendary.

Wibble said:

True. I guess its just a personal feeling. To me, the cycling thing put a time limit on getting a dungeon completed and gave a sense of urgency. That feel lost now that its twice per level.

Big Remy said:

An example might be best.

a) Hero attacks boss needing 17 damage to kill rolling RGGAgBB. Hero rolls 16 damage. Hero reaches for another black dice and OL hastily throws down a dodge - "Sorry, no more dice".

So, is it a race to roll another dice/play the dodge?
Or, can the Hero 'interrupt' the dodge to add more dice, which then must be rolled before the OL chooses which dice (of them all) are rerolled...

b) The OL says "I play a dodge". The hero says, "ok, in that case I spend 4 Fatigue and add AuB" (rolls them). (Hero) "Now which do you want me to reroll". <OL has choice of RGGAuAgBBB for rerolling> (OL) "now, you can keep that blank on the Au (nice waste of 3 fatigue mate!), and the 1heart on that G, but reroll the RGAgBBB please."

"Once all dice are done being rolled, the Overlord may play the dodge card." is still somewhat ambiguous - or rather, creates several follow up questions. Firstly, we will assume that 'all dice' include all those added with fatigue. Thus;
Is the OL effectively required to say "I am about to play a dodge card, do you wish to add more dice?"
- if not, the dodge becomes exceptionally powerful as in the example a) above
If yes, can the OL say this even if he is not about to play a dodge card?
- heroes may wish to expend additional dice for 'overkill' to make the dodge less effective. Can the OL 'bluff' them into doing this all the time?

Corbon said:

Okay, I got it now. Thanks. I think it creates followup questions rather than being ambiguous, but that's a personal perspective.

I, personally, would go with the OL says he's going to play it, gives the chance to the hero to add dice and then plays it. As for bluffing, I'd be fine with that as it fits in a line with a lot fo the psychological tactics that the OL tends to employ.

Big Remy said:

Well, yes, so do I.

I don't like that bluffing as it basically leads to the OL saying it on every single attack, the heroes cannot afford to 'overkill' all the time so they never do, and Dodge, for just 2 threat, basically becomes almost guaranteed miss/fail to kill when timed right (and it will be). So I have an issue with the bluff.
But then, if there is no bluff and the heroes know that there is definitely a dodge coming, they can overkill and the dodge is not much more useful than it was with dice added afterward (at least the added dice are guaranteed to be re-roll-able). Still better though, without being too good.

Remember, Dodge is just 2 threat. It shouldn't be too good IMO.

Another significant change.

Crushing Blocks are now only unplayable adjacent to a specified set of obstacles (defined as ones 'that block movement', followed by a list) - Boulder, Crushing Wall, Rubble, Water. Trees (when impassable, but not when 'normal') would also count by the definition, even if not in the list. It is only current up to RtL though - Ice could still be an argued, but I would say can drop, because Ice does not 'block' movement.

Regarding fatigue vs. the Dodge card, I think it's reasonable to assume that it works like other interrupt effects in the game. Descent isn't about speed, and if your opponent has an opportunity to do something (e.g. activate a guard order, play a trap card, etc.) you can't block them by doing the next thing before they have a chance to respond--if you move to fast, they can make you back up. So the OL definitely can't prevent a hero from spending fatigue by playing the card really fast.

However, by the same token, I don't think the hero should be allowed to wait and see whether the OL is playing a card before making up his mind. That seems like asking to back up and drink a healing potion before you start moving because the OL played a Spiked Pit trap. You knew that was a possibility. If it's really important to make sure you can survive any trap the OL happens to play, you drink the potion to be safe; if you decide to risk it, then you live (or die) with the results. The FAQ specifically says that spending fatigue happens before the card is played, so I think the most reasonable assumption is that you have to declare that you're done spending before the OL declares whether he's playing the card or not. If you get into a staring contest where each side is waiting to see what the other is going to do, the hero has to make the first decision.

If the OL is feeling nice (or worried that you'll complain that he went too fast), he'll ask "do you want to spend any fatigue?" before playing the card. If he's feeling evil, he'll ask that at random times whether he plans to play a Dodge card or not. Just like a good OL will always force the heroes to declare the exact movement path they take during their turn, rather than just counting distance to the final destination. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Corbon said:

That's significant, but not a change. The oldest FAQ I have handy is v1.4, but the answer in question was present in that FAQ with black text, so it's probably at least 2 FAQ iterations old. Not sure why it's red again--maybe the reason this FAQ is labeled v1.3 is that someone editing it thought that the last published version was v1.2, and so everything that's different from that FAQ is in red?

It's also hidden in the RtL section of the FAQ, which means either that this ruling arbitrarily applies only to RtL or that they aren't keeping their sections straight.

I dislike this ruling because it means that the Crushing Block can deliver a double whammy, hitting the hero with extra damage from an adjacent lava obstacle or ending their movement by pushing them onto nearby ice (with no chance to avoid). That makes the card dramatically more powerful in special situations, which means either it's overpowered then or underpowered all the rest of the time.

Big Remy said:

That's correct, and I would be surprised if it was intended to mean anything else (of course, I would've been surprised if the answer to the first question was anything but "no" even before seeing this FAQ). But there's no reason to have the second question there at all if they're not going to answer it (even just to say "and so the second question is not applicable"); it would be clearer and more concise if they removed it. The current version makes it look like it could be an error, at the very least, and it would be so easy to fix...

Antistone said:

So it is. We've been annoyedly playing it wrong all this time...

LoL crushing block near trees....hey whats that vulture there doing...OMG! its droping a boulder, get to ground!

On the Bridge of Death, boulders becomes quite dangerous...

Thanks Antistone for a much more considerately worded post this time over

Wasn't the large monster movement rule completely gone from the version of two weeks ago?

It seems like there is a simple solution to the extra fatigue dice vs Dodge card timing. Either:

1) The OL needs to ask if the hero is done rolling/adding dice before playing a dodge. A simple "Are you done?" should be enough. No need to state "I'm playing a Dodge, what to add more dice?" This brings in the metagaming that people will like or dislike.

2) A simple house rule that once the hero declares his attack total, he cannot add more dice. Then the OL can play the dodge. Hero: "I do 12 damage with 3 pierce against the Beastman." OL: Plays Dodge. "Don't think so. Let's reroll some of those dice." Hero: "Grumble"

Remember, it's a game to be played for enjoyment. Talk to the players and decide how you are going to play and move on.

Corbon said:

The only logical way to interpret this is that the dodge is not resolved until the hero has had the option of adding dice.
i.e: The hero may interrupt the dodge to add extra dice, but those dice are subject to the dodge when it is resolved.

Otherwise, every combat roll, the OL is going to have to ask "Are you adding any dice" before announcing the dodge.
Or you get into the stupid situation where the dice are rolled, and the OL shouts "Dodge" before the hero has an opportunity to add any extra dice.

Big Remy said:

Correct. I noticed this too. It's also mentioned at the bottom of page 10. This is a reversal of the answer in FAQ 1.4. So no more stocking up or healing right after a dungeon. The heroes must wait a week. Of course, they can still "Restock" right at the end of a dungeon, but that will continue the last level giving the OL a chance for dirty tricks.

Corbon said:

Yup- Definitely a change. IMHO- the Party "ended their movement" on a dungeon location and thus can't take a Visit action after completing the dungeon. Glad they clarified this even though it's how I play it myself.

I still think the whole "Move Action" sequence should be clarified by FFG and agree that the Lt/Party doesn't have to change locations, just declare a "move action". "Instead of moving to a new location the Lt/Party can end their move action in their current location" or some such wording.

Also of interest is :

Q: If heroes are attacking a lieutenant in a town, can they "visit" the shops, etc. before encountering the lieutenant or only after battles have resolved?
A: Only after battles have ended.

This clearly delegates the "order" of "End of Movement Actions"- Move, Encoutner LT, Visit (assuming you survive)

Corbon said:

My take on the dodge thing is more that it prevents a hero from rolling dice after the dodge completes so that all dice rolled are dodged. Now, we had always played that if you roll more dice after the dodge, the ol can force a re-roll of those. Here, it makes the hero lock into whether or not he will add more dice before knowing if his attack will potentially miss (as a result of the dodge).

I'm almost certain the reading of the lt. move thing is the question that has been brought up previously about whether heroes/lts. actually have to change location in order to attack. I know that we will be playing it that simply you cannot train or besiege if you want to attack a lt (or with one).

Big Remy said:

Yup- I totally agree. The onus is on the Hero player to decide that they are done adding dice to the attack roll. The OL should ask "are you done rolling" and if no more dice are rolled then choose to play dodge (or not)

Related to the dodge discussion, how does it work for Aimed attacks? An aim is functionally identical to a dodge, so I would think the hero must decide whether to add power dice *before* they do their reroll.

Thoughts?

I find this two missprint ...

Glyphs and Town page 10
second Questions „Q“ is normal type not „Italic“ (Can heroes purchase gear from the market an then ...

page 7 contains same questions as page 12
Q: Do the props “Sarcophagus”, “Table”, “Bed”, “Fountain”, “Throne”, “Bone Heap”, “Giant Mushrooms”, “Tree” and “Ice” count as obstacles (for the effects of Acrobat and others)?
A: Yes.

Q: Do the props “Sarcophagus”, “Table”, “Bed”, “Fountain”, “Throne”, “Bone Heap”, “Giant Mushrooms”, “Tree” and “Ice” count as obstacles (for the effects of Acrobat and others)?
A: Yes.

Im not detailist but I was made translation and find it.