A few newbie rules questions

By Lugoffo2, in Only War Rules Questions

I've played a few sessions with Only War, and there are a few things we didn't really understand.

1) What is an "extended test"? It says I need multiple successes (number decided by GM), but what does that mean? So if I need 8 successes, roll 7 then miss my last roll, did I fail entirely?

2) How do you actually use the Chymistry crafting? As a medic, you have access to the skill neccessary, but it seems like you need a lot of rolls.

Let's say I'm on a new planet, but in a forest.

First roll would be Scholastic (Chymistry) to see if I know what ingredients I need and if I can get them. If they're avaliable, I would need to gather them (probably not a roll, just time needed?)

Then, I need to roll an extended test with (~4) successes to actually create it.

- This goes into my previous question, do I fail completely if I fail a single roll? If I'm making a synthetic poison, I would need 8 successes, and let's face it, one of these is going to fail...

Then the last roll is to actually apply the poison correctly, which is a Medicae roll.

It just seems like it's easier to just request poison at the base and hope for a lucky roll than to create one myself, and if that's the case, what do I need the skills for (unless I spend a massive amount of exp on them)?

Oh and I would also need some form of lab. Tt says on p.115 that I need some form of lab or tools. But there is no indication whatsoever what kind of rarity they are and if I can carry the neccessary tools with me. How would I go about to do it?

3) How specific do you have to be with measurements? A few rules are very specific in regards to meters (such as the talent Catfall). Is the GM just supposed to make up a number each time? For example, if you're using a Flamer, you need to be pretty specific with degrees and range to see who gets hit. How do you play this the easiest way? Do you play with a grid? How do you do it?

4) How do you play with a high ranked officer (Commissar or Sergeant) in a squad? We found that is gets strange since they would have absolute say in how to handle each situation. The other guardsmen would naturally have to turn to them for everything they do. Some players could potentially abuse their power over the others, or some players would just not dare to speak/act as they want when a commissar is watching over them all the time.

5) If you're only allowed to use one first aid per character per 24h, does this mean that a character being shot, gets first aid, then gets shot again at a different location doesn't get another first aid?

6a) Can you, technically, request unlimited items in your logistics test? For example, can I request a Best Craftsmanship Laspistol and a Good Craftsmanship Laspistol in hopes to get at least one?

6b) And when it comes to modifications, can you request for example a red-dot laser sight, a grenade launcher, a melee attachment, extra grip and an overcharge pack for a single weapon? I would only assume you can't have items that share space, such as a red dot sight at the same time as a telescopic sight. I may be a bit of a hoarder, but is there a reason I shouldn't do this as a player?

6c) Can I request illegal/extreme items? Examples would be certain drugs, force fields or rare weapons I don't even have training in.

1) My interpretation would be no, you don't fail entirely. You simply make no progress, costing you time and requiring that your try again.

2) Common sense applies, but yeah making something is hard and "buying it" is easier. Just like life. :)

3) It varies from group to group, but in general, yes the GM makes up the numbers based on her knowledge and concept of the scenario. So people do play with miniatures on a grid map, my group uses rough sketches on a white board and some people just keep it all in their heads. It's all up to what works for the group. Again, common sense applies.

4) If you have someone in your group who can't be trusted to play a character with authority while respecting everyone's right to enjoy the game, frankly I would say don't game with that person. Failing that, don't let them play a character with authority. Yes, a sergeant has authority over his troopers however a good sergeant listens to his troops, who are after all experts in their specialties, and takes their views into account when planning a course of action. The final word rests with the sergeant but that's the nature of a military roleplaying game. A commissar's authority is limited to maintaining unit discipline and morale and can only overrule a sergeant (or other officer) in cases of gross incompetence, cowardice or heresy.

5) Yup.

6) Again, common sense applies (insofar as such a concept can apply to the Departmento Minutorium). If your squad is requisitioning ridiculous things, their superiors should call them on it and "correct their behavior." If your squad is requisitioning illegal things, the company commissar should "correct their behavior." If you squad is simply requisitioning a special item (such as a lasgun with a laser sight, grenade launcher, melee attachment, extra grip and overcharge packs) figure out the availability of said item and make the roll. If they can make the roll and the GM (in the part of the officers and staff) doesn't object, cool.

1) OW doesn't seem to have explained this well, but in the other lines it refers to amassing a certain number of degrees of success. e.g. creating some poisons requires 8 successes, this could breakdown as a Search Test that results in 3 DoS to find the raw materials, a Chymisty Test with 3 DoS to prepare them, and finally a Survival Test with at least 2 DoS to apply them to the delivery system of choice. Generally, each relevant Skill can only be used once per PC - or per time increment (per day/per 12 hours etc), they just keep going until they amass enough successes to complete, or run out of Skills to justify testing, at which point the Extended Test fails. The RT line also added a bonus/penalty to each individual Test based on whether the previous Test had any successes/failures.

So it doesn't come down to a single failure, just how skillful or versatile the party is.

2) As above, tools and a lab depend on how advanced the poison is, local materials or the basic medkit could be used for basic drugs or toxins. As to why you'd craft, pre-prepared drugs are acquired per dose, crafted drugs could be made in any amount you have the materials for - which are easier to gain, and often in large amounts.

3) Whatever is easy to follow. We use miniatures and a tape measure, sometimes use a set square for flamer arcs.

4) Strictly speaking there are no "higher ranks" within the Squad - seniority is based solely on Logistics Rating, which is the same for all, so just treat the Roles as labels. So, a "Sergeant" with an LR of 10 is still a private, though one whose abilities have been recognised and is being groomed for command. He doesn't become an actual sergeant until LR 20, and at LR 30+ he might be offered a battlefield commission to Lietenant (or carry on to Sergeant-Major/Staff Sergeant or equivalent so the squad doesn't accrue too many officers). Likewise a "Commissar" with the same seniority as a private is still a Cadet. None of the PCs are truly above the other, their seniority is the same across the board, regardless of job description.

6) GM's choice. I currently permit my players one successful Acquisition each. They can keep rolling, for a different item each time, until they finally pass and gain it. At higher Ranks (LR 30+ say), I'll slowly increase the number of rolls they can make, but as this isn't an RT game, I'm not leading them to try hoarding everything in sight.

6c) Sure, that's what the black market's all about. Just don't get caught with the illegal stuff.

I've played a few sessions with Only War, and there are a few things we didn't really understand.

4) How do you play with a high ranked officer (Commissar or Sergeant) in a squad? We found that is gets strange since they would have absolute say in how to handle each situation. The other guardsmen would naturally have to turn to them for everything they do. Some players could potentially abuse their power over the others, or some players would just not dare to speak/act as they want when a commissar is watching over them all the time.

6a) Can you, technically, request unlimited items in your logistics test? For example, can I request a Best Craftsmanship Laspistol and a Good Craftsmanship Laspistol in hopes to get at least one?

6b) And when it comes to modifications, can you request for example a red-dot laser sight, a grenade launcher, a melee attachment, extra grip and an overcharge pack for a single weapon? I would only assume you can't have items that share space, such as a red dot sight at the same time as a telescopic sight. I may be a bit of a hoarder, but is there a reason I shouldn't do this as a player?

6c) Can I request illegal/extreme items? Examples would be certain drugs, force fields or rare weapons I don't even have training in.

It can be a lot like Rogue Trader; someone kinda has to be in charge. It can get to be annoying if that player is a ****** who doesn't understand what good gaming is, and doesn't care if anyone else has fun (especially if they have NO working knowledge of the material, such as military etiquette or tactics) If they become insufferable, get the GM to reign them in, or, in game, you could always salute them; that can be an effective way to be rid of an Officer. If the GM is feeling a bit generous, they might "requisition" some vid relays for your group, and if the bad leader portrays as such while wearing one, they might have a chat with their superior, or the aforementioned Commissar, and his bolt pistol. It is the grimdark future, but that doesn't mean your friends have to suck. ^_^ Commissars especially seem like they could be a pain, followed up by Priests, as each has a rigid set of rules they follow, and expect you to, also. While certain activities are fun, a well played Commissar shouldn't allow you to do it, and he or she CAN cap you with the bolt pistol. Like Paladins in D&D, sometimes you do have to play your character around other people's characters more than you would like to, but it does add a layer of realism.

I often play the group leader/mouthpiece in role-playing games with my friends, and quickly confess that I am, in reality, not necessarily as knowledgeable as I should be, so I often ask them what they think. Your friend, assuming this wasn't a hypothetical scenario, should attempt to adopt a similar posture.

I really do wish that these games did have a slightly more hard and fast limit on Influence/Acquisition/Logistics checks. The freedom is nice, but it can get stifling when people want to request a bunch of stuff.

As for upgrades, the bit I remembered, I think from Dark Heresy, is something to the effect of "take the highest Rarity of the combined stuff you are requesting, and then increase it by one step for each additional item/component. That covers availability of pieces, and likely assembly. If you want to order each piece, I guess you could, but a ready-to-use las-carbine with an auxiliary grenade launcher and an RDL scope is hard to find, and some of those things, maybe not THESE, are more work-intensive to install, and you might not have time pre-mission.

As for rare, specialist, and illegal stuff, if the DeptMun can't prove you are qualified to use something, they probably shouldn't intentionally give it to you (though accidents happen), and their local paperwork is often good enough that even if you get the stuff, they expect it back, and keeping it, or pawning it on the BM for something else is not advised, or tolerated. Punishment, and in the Guard, there WILL be punishment, could range from anything starting at "you can still work" beatings to the above Commissar's sidearm, which he shockingly rarely ever seems to use on Orks and D. Eldar.

Thank you for answering!

I guess our group is a bit obsessed with rules, because if it's not in the book we often spend too long discussing them than actually playing. Using "common sense" is very difficult when you have different opinions on what that is.

I suppose it's actually a fight between me as a hoarding player and the character I want to play, I can't really put up borders unless I have a guideline.

1) It still seems a bit fuzzy about the rules, is it better explained in any of the other rulebooks? So basically, failing a roll or two means that I'm "delayed" and it takes time or I get a worse result?

2) We'll make something up for a kind of "toolkit", and see how that goes.

4) Yes, I saw another thread about this, and I suppose we're basiclly going to use the sergeant as the one that gets and pass on the orders and the commissar as a sort of morale officer, making sure we don't do anything illegal.

We quickly decided that noone should be of higher rank just to be safe, but then the problem was that the players wouldn't take actions or be very passive if a sergeant or commissar was there. If they're more of a kind of advisor, that would make it easier to roleplay.

5) Sounds crazy, but I'll take it!

6) Regarding this, I was more thinking about how do I, as a player, know what the GM thinks is "overpowered" unless I ask for every item? I feel a bit like a min-maxer if I have to ask about everything, and it sort of ruins my experience. There doesn't seem to be a guideline as to what is logical to have, that's more what I was asking for.

For example, your idea about one item per time acquisition seems like a good plan.

Our GM thought that we were too powerful if we just requested everything. As it is now, two good shots from most weapons will kill a PC quite easily.

EDIT: Venkelos, I just saw your post - I have never player the other games, just Only War.

The guideline for getting items there seems like a good idea, making one roll more difficult seems logical.

But like mentioned, I can't read my GM's mind and I don't have an inner stop when it comes to items :P

Edited by Lugoffo

6) Regarding this, I was more thinking about how do I, as a player, know what the GM thinks is "overpowered" unless I ask for every item?

You ask the GM, out of character: "hey I'd like my character to have something like X, does that sound overpowered to you?"

Never underestimate the value of just having a good, honest conversation about the game with your GM or fellow players.

6) Regarding this, I was more thinking about how do I, as a player, know what the GM thinks is "overpowered" unless I ask for every item?

You ask the GM, out of character: "hey I'd like my character to have something like X, does that sound overpowered to you?"

Never underestimate the value of just having a good, honest conversation about the game with your GM or fellow players.

Yes - but asking this every time, for every item and it leading to a discussion, that soaks precious game time from everyone :(

6) Regarding this, I was more thinking about how do I, as a player, know what the GM thinks is "overpowered" unless I ask for every item?

You ask the GM, out of character: "hey I'd like my character to have something like X, does that sound overpowered to you?"

Never underestimate the value of just having a good, honest conversation about the game with your GM or fellow players.

Yes - but asking this every time, for every item and it leading to a discussion, that soaks precious game time from everyone :(

Don't do it during the game. For instance, my group has a Facebook group page which we use for session planning and general discussion. It works for us.