There are a lot of ships that have turret mounted weapons that can only fire in a single firing arc.

Presuming that those are not errors, is there any difference between:

- forward turret mounted weapon (firing arc: forward)

- forward mounted weapon (firing arc: forward)

Not really, no. It's a weird choice, I agree, but fire arcs are largely meaningless in the game anyway. It's not as if there are any facing rules.

[EDIT: Oh noes! Post 666!]

I was thinking to add something like this (to make a little difference between turret mounted and non turret mounted weapons):

1) only the Pilot can take the Aim maneuver with non turret mounted weapons.

2) anyone operating a turret mounted weapon system can take the Aim action with it.

A turret with only one arc is a 'locked' turret normally fired by the pilot. It should be possible to unlock it for use by a gunner with Fire Arc All.

A turret with only one arc is a 'locked' turret. It should be possible to unlock it for use by a gunner.

If so, then why sometimes (both for ships with and without gunners) they write on turret mounted weapons "firing arc: all" and some other times "firing arc: forward"?

A turret with only one arc is a 'locked' turret. It should be possible to unlock it for use by a gunner.

If so, then why sometimes (both for ships with and without gunners) they write on turret mounted weapons "firing arc: all" and some other times "firing arc: forward"?

Lack of consistency among various entries would be my guess. What I wrote above is my explanation and what I use in my games for turrets.

There are a lot of ships that have turret mounted weapons that can only fire in a single firing arc.

Presuming that those are not errors, is there any difference between:

- forward turret mounted weapon (firing arc: forward)

- forward mounted weapon (firing arc: forward)

I believe that turret mounted weapons can be used by a gunner, whereas the forward-mounted weapons are pilot only.

I can't find anything to confirm, but that's my interpretation. Heck, it's been said in EU books that the one-seater Y-wing can lock the turreted ion cannon to any fire arc; forward is most common, but some pilots prefer to lock in facing aft, so they can shoot at those behind them. So perhaps the "Turret forward" is the most common position, but can be set to any position

Not really, no. It's a weird choice, I agree, but fire arcs are largely meaningless in the game anyway. It's not as if there are any facing rules.

[EDIT: Oh noes! Post 666!]

For smaller craft like starfighters and smaller transports, that's true. But once you get into the territory of larger craft—corvettes, frigates, cruisers, and battleships—you start to worry about fire arcs. When you're broadsiding a target, only turrets that are facing the target can shoot at those targets. You can't fire a forward facing weapon when you're showing them your port-side batteries!

-EF

While fire arcs seemingly are pointless, at least for <4 silhouette starships, for 5+ silhouettes it has a meaning due to not being able to choose where one takes the hit from smaller ships, and as Sam Stewart alluded to in the Q&A episode of Order 66, silhouette 5+ starships need to use move to angle cannons and stuff. At least that's how I remember understanding what he was talking about.

IIRC there is no such thing as a "pilot only" starship weapon in Edge of the Empire (though those did exist in Saga Edition).

A gunner can fire any weapon on a ship in EotE, regardless of whether it's mounted on a turret or fires forward only or what have you.

Not really, no. It's a weird choice, I agree, but fire arcs are largely meaningless in the game anyway. It's not as if there are any facing rules.

[EDIT: Oh noes! Post 666!]

I'd really be keen for some simple tactical ship rules that worked with EOTE.

I'd like to have representations of what is happening so the players can react to that. Its easier to see visually. I suppose, 'Gain The Advantage' would be odd to represent.

How hard would it be to use vectored movement? You can accelerate up to your maximum speed forward. You are moving with speed X forward, it costs 1 speed to change direction one hex facing. Maximum 3 facing changes if handling > 0, 2 facings if handling = 0, and 1 facing if Handling is < 0. Piloting skills that improve handling, should affect this.

Gain the advantage attack benefit could apply to the Pilot or 1 Gunner of the Pilot's choosing?

I realise that the game isn't going with the whole tactical square counting rules, but still, maps and other representations are useful. I do like those ship sheets with all the different things the players can do represented on them. I think its great in EOTE that all players can participate in a ship fight.

IIRC there is no such thing as a "pilot only" starship weapon in Edge of the Empire (though those did exist in Saga Edition).

A gunner can fire any weapon on a ship in EotE, regardless of whether it's mounted on a turret or fires forward only or what have you.

That doesn't make sense at all for fixed weapons such as the X-Wings cannons. Imagine an X-Wing with the Astromech socket removed and in it's place is a backseat crew cockpit. How can that backseat crew member effectively fire the fixed (can't swivel) laser cannons of the X-Wing? Only the pilot can move the craft around thus pointing the laser cannons at targets, Only the active pilot should be able to effectively shoot "fixed" weapons that aren't guided (like a missile).

Having done actual dog-fighting in aircraft, I can say that tactical maps don't really work well for a couple of reasons.

1) combat is 3D not 2D

2) position, attitude, altitude, etc... all change quickly and drastically in the furball. Given that combat rounds vary in length from a few seconds to a minute in length, I can say that other than momentary information of where you are and a given opponent or two, it really is just one giant mess of movement. In an aircraft you could go from 15,000 ft to 3000 feet and back again easily within a minutes time.

I've found using things like the Savage Worlds idea of a Chase works a lot better for space combat. Each person makes an appropriate skill roll (piloting, driving, boating) and are dealt into the initiative based on how well they roll (each success or raise gets you a card). Those higher in the initiative can shoot at those lower in the initiative and how high you are determines how far from the others you are.

Savage Worlds uses a full deck of cards (54 cards) for initiative.

Hey man, I'm just telling you what's in hte book.

IIRC there is no such thing as a "pilot only" starship weapon in Edge of the Empire (though those did exist in Saga Edition).

A gunner can fire any weapon on a ship in EotE, regardless of whether it's mounted on a turret or fires forward only or what have you.

That doesn't make sense at all for fixed weapons such as the X-Wings cannons. Imagine an X-Wing with the Astromech socket removed and in it's place is a backseat crew cockpit. How can that backseat crew member effectively fire the fixed (can't swivel) laser cannons of the X-Wing? Only the pilot can move the craft around thus pointing the laser cannons at targets, Only the active pilot should be able to effectively shoot "fixed" weapons that aren't guided (like a missile).

Yep, you pretty much have it right. Take the Y-Wing, for example. The weapon stats for this ship do stipulate that the turret is "gunner controlled" in one of the specific models, but the forward-firing blaster cannons and proton torpedo launchers do NOT stipulate that they are pilot-controlled. This would seem to suggest that if the turret became inoperable, the gunner in the rearward-facing seat could take over control of one of those two forward-firing weapons, perhaps by way of a fire control computer with a forward-facing viewscreen image.

I think that the gunner can always use a non turret mounted weapon.

Take for example the Storm IV Cloud Car: it has 1 pilot, 1 gunner and 1 non turret mounted weapon.

I'll go with my house rule:

As the pilot flies around weaving, how exactly is the gunner going to fire that fixed, forward mounted weapon at another target as it moves with the craft? Is he just going to wait and pull the trigger quickly when the pilot happens to move the front of the craft across the target? Tell the pilot to bank left towards the TIE fighter so he can pull the trigger at the right moment as the laser on the nose passes over the TIE? Unless you rule the fixed non-guided missile weapons have some sort of swivel mount (a.i. almost a turret), it would be nearly impossible for them to be used by anyone other then the pilot. That is why turrets were invented.

The dogfights of Star Wars were based on WW2 dogfighting. Fighters had guns that were fixed forward and fired by the pilot. Some fighters had a rear gunner that controlled a turreted or pintle mounted weapon, so it's facing could be changed to bare on a target. Large bombers had several gunners, all of which fired turrets or door guns on a moving mount of some sort. Only pilots ever fired fixed weapons. Perhaps I'm missing something, but anything else seems completely non-sensical to me. Fixed weapons are for the pilots only in my game.

I'll show how I've ruled the Citadel-class Light Freighter in my game:

Laser Cannons: pilot-operated

Concussion Missile Launcher: pilot or copilot-operated

Tractor Beam: copilot or engineer-operated

Ion Cannons: pilot-operated (if locked into Fire Arc Forward) or gunner/passenger-operated (if unlocked for Fire Arc All - port/starboard just treated as cosmetic variation of dorsal/ventral)

To the OP are you referring to the AoR beta? Because I went through my EotE book, and couldn't find one example of a turret without a firing arc: all.

To the OP are you referring to the AoR beta? Because I went through my EotE book, and couldn't find one example of a turret without a firing arc: all.

Look at the Citadel-class Light Freighter.

Turret just means it has a degree of swivel. For example, The Incom T-47 Airspeeder (the snow speeder from Hoth) has an Aft Turret Mounted Harpoon with a firing arc of aft. But to aft it can fire anywhere within that range; however if you installed forward fixed lasers like it has in the movie then those have an arc of forward but cannot fire anywhere within that arc save straight. The game take a huge abstraction in firing “arcs.” A forward fixed gun has no arc really, it can fire in a straight line determined by the facing of the aircraft or vehicle. A turret weapon may have the same “arc” of forward but it can fire anywhere within that arc without the ship moving, a fixed weapon has to have the vehicle move to get a bearing on the target. That’s why a turret mounted weapon can have a single “arc,” the same as a fixed weapon.

Therefore, turret weapons should be fired by a gunner, but a pilot can if they are “fixed,” during combat. Weapons that cannot be fixed, such as the harpoon on the airspeeder could not be fired by the pilot, not least because it aft facing and the pilot cannot really see behind him. But truly fixed weapon should only be fired by the pilot, they could in theory be fired by a gunner but they would lose so much in the way of effectiveness that it isn’t worth it.

I am AFB, but if it is only one ship then it is clearly a typo.

A turret with only one arc is a 'locked' turret. It should be possible to unlock it for use by a gunner.

If so, then why sometimes (both for ships with and without gunners) they write on turret mounted weapons "firing arc: all" and some other times "firing arc: forward"?

Lack of consistency among various entries would be my guess. What I wrote above is my explanation and what I use in my games for turrets.

Maybe the ones with 'firing arc: all' are ones where the turreted weapon *can't* be fired by the pilot?

To the OP are you referring to the AoR beta? Because I went through my EotE book, and couldn't find one example of a turret without a firing arc: all.

I'm referring to the EotE (not beta). There are a various vehicles, like the INCOM T-47 AIRSPEEDER and the BTL-A4 Y-WING. I don't count larger (5+) ships because all their weapons are turret mounted.

Maybe the ones with 'firing arc: all' are ones where the turreted weapon *can't* be fired by the pilot?

If so then why specify in the BTL-53 Y-WING that Turret Mounted Twin Light Ion Cannons (Fire Arc All) is gunner controlled?

Anyway a turret can be locked in a fixed position, so I think this could be used by the pilot like a non turret mounted weapon.

Maybe the ones with 'firing arc: all' are ones where the turreted weapon *can't* be fired by the pilot?

If so then why specify in the BTL-53 Y-WING that Turret Mounted Twin Light Ion Cannons (Fire Arc All) is gunner controlled?

Anyway a turret can be locked in a fixed position, so I think this could be used by the pilot like a non turret mounted weapon.

Maybe because people might assume that a starfighter's weapons can all be used by the pilot, even if the intention was that a 'Fire arc: all' notation meant that the weapon can't be?

It may just be that they had a few words worth of space that they thought would be well served toward making that completely clear in the Y-Wing write-up, since it doesn't seem to be expressed explicitly anywhere else. (Are there any other ships which have variants where one has a 'fire arc: all' and the other has a 'fire arc: {direction}'?)