"Retrofitted Hangar Bay" gives you the equivalent of additional Encumbrance Capacity based upon the size of the ship.

"Smuggling Compartments" converts a fixed amount of existing Encumbrance Capacity.

Shouldn't it add a new amount of Encumbrance Capacity directly tied to the size of the ship?

For a Silhouette 6 ship, 25 encumbrace of hidden cargo is absolutely nothing...

I think some of those upgrades were designed more with the idea of ships that the PCs could actually own and operate, the largest off which (Wayfarer-class transport) is only Silhouette 5.

Also, the retrofitted hanger bay really isn't worth modifying for additional Silhouette storage space for anything Silhouette 6 and up, since the modification just adds +1 regardless of the ship's size or default carrying capacity, which isn't going to make that much of a difference in how many ships it can carry.

I think it wouldn't be too difficult for characters acquire an "Action VI Bulk Transport" (Silhouette 5). It has 10.000 encumbrance capacity. 25 encumbrance capcity for smuggling is almost a joke.

Also, the retrofitted hanger bay really isn't worth modifying for additional Silhouette storage space for anything Silhouette 6 and up, since the modification just adds +1 regardless of the ship's size or default carrying capacity, which isn't going to make that much of a difference in how many ships it can carry.

Are you sure?

"The maximum (silhouette) capacity is calculated in all vehicles' combined silhouette.

It seems to me that:

The maximum silhouette capacity for Silhouette 5 is 5.

The maximum silhouette capacity for Silhouette 6 is 20.

Anyway, even if I'm wrong, all this capacity is added to that of the ship, not converted.

Are you sure?

"The maximum (silhouette) capacity is calculated in all vehicles' combined silhouette.

Silhouette 5 vehicles can carry a total silhouette of 5.

Silhouette 6 vehicles can carry a total silhouette of 20.

Silhouette 7+ vehicles can carry a total silhouette of 60."

It seems to me that:

The maximum silhouette capacity for Silhouette 5 is 5.

The maximum silhouette capacity for Silhouette 6 is 20.

The maximum silhouette capacity for Silhouette 7+ is 60.

Modification options: 5 Additional maximum silhouette capacity Mods.

Anyway, even if I'm wrong, all this capacity is added to that of the ship, not converted.

Yep, as this was answered by Sam Stewart during the Order 66 Podcast Q&A episodes. Each modification simply adds +1 to the maximum Silhouette capacity. So until there's a new official word that says otherwise, Sam's answer is the current ruling.

Are you sure?

"The maximum (silhouette) capacity is calculated in all vehicles' combined silhouette.

Silhouette 5 vehicles can carry a total silhouette of 5.

Silhouette 6 vehicles can carry a total silhouette of 20.

Silhouette 7+ vehicles can carry a total silhouette of 60."

It seems to me that:

The maximum silhouette capacity for Silhouette 5 is 5.

The maximum silhouette capacity for Silhouette 6 is 20.

The maximum silhouette capacity for Silhouette 7+ is 60.

Modification options: 5 Additional maximum silhouette capacity Mods.

Anyway, even if I'm wrong, all this capacity is added to that of the ship, not converted.

Yep, as this was answered by Sam Stewart during the Order 66 Podcast Q&A episodes. Each modification simply adds +1 to the maximum Silhouette capacity. So until there's a new official word that says otherwise, Sam's answer is the current ruling.

Ok, so this modification option is almost useless (at least for silhouette 6+) :-)

Anyway, returning to my original post, for a silhouette 5 ship with 10.000 cargo encumbrance the "Smuggling Compartments" (even with multiple options) is like a joke.

If some modifications work for silhouette 7 ships (retrofitted hangar bay), I think the same "treatment" should be done for all modifications.

That's all :-)

There's a *huge* difference between the purpose and needs of a hangar and a smuggling compartment.

A hangar needs to be a large, open space with support equipment for the craft which will be using the hangar. Being large is of obvious benefit to the hangar, and hiding the existence of a hangar from even a casual inspection would be virtually impossible. (There's a big chunk of the ship with no visible access points, and no reason for it to be full of heavy equipment.)

A smuggling compartment needs to be discrete, well-hidden, and shielded against scanners. Being large makes the smuggling compartment easier to find simply by virtue of the fact that it takes up more space which is *normally* occupied by other systems, requiring those systems to be rerouted in some manner.

Yes, there is more ship in which to hide smuggling compartments when you move up into the larger craft, but correspondingly less of the ship is allocated to cargo in the first place. And where that isn't true (the large empty holds of the Action IV, for example) a large chunk of that space 'missing' is easier for customs to spot in the first place.

Think of it this way. The bed and cab of a pickup truck can be modified with hidden compartments. The cab and trailer of a semi can likewise be modified, but the added space in the trailer doesn't mean that more space is available to become hidden compartments without the modifications making the *existance* of said compartments obvious.

There's a *huge* difference between the purpose and needs of a hangar and a smuggling compartment.

A hangar needs to be a large, open space with support equipment for the craft which will be using the hangar. Being large is of obvious benefit to the hangar, and hiding the existence of a hangar from even a casual inspection would be virtually impossible. (There's a big chunk of the ship with no visible access points, and no reason for it to be full of heavy equipment.)

A smuggling compartment needs to be discrete, well-hidden, and shielded against scanners. Being large makes the smuggling compartment easier to find simply by virtue of the fact that it takes up more space which is *normally* occupied by other systems, requiring those systems to be rerouted in some manner.

Yes, there is more ship in which to hide smuggling compartments when you move up into the larger craft, but correspondingly less of the ship is allocated to cargo in the first place. And where that isn't true (the large empty holds of the Action IV, for example) a large chunk of that space 'missing' is easier for customs to spot in the first place.

Think of it this way. The bed and cab of a pickup truck can be modified with hidden compartments. The cab and trailer of a semi can likewise be modified, but the added space in the trailer doesn't mean that more space is available to become hidden compartments without the modifications making the *existance* of said compartments obvious.

Yes, but on a large ship it would be very easy to find many places perfect for a smuggling compartment.

So a large ship could have many smuggling compartments with the base modification.

I think Donovan is right: this modification seems to be made forse Silhouette 4 (maybe 5) ships, the ones that will normally be used by players.

I'm also thinking that a 25 Encumbrance "smuggling compartment" would be a lot easier to hide on a Silhouette 5 and bigger ships, as those have much larger cargo capacity than a smaller transport, since the compartments don't add any extra storage capacity. In those instances, the GM might want to apply a setback dice to Perception checks to find such compartments on such large ships.

Just a quick question, am looking at porting over a Lantillan Short Hauler into an edge game and perhaps age of rebellion depending on what happens during the game.

Now previously I was thinking it could carry 3 Z-95 Headhunters by means of external attachments to the outside of the ship so that pilots would have to EVA to the fighters which then detach and fly off (I picture them being able to VTOL), however I've finally got to reading the bit about modification particularly the hangar bay and I wanted to make sure I understood this right.

At a cost of 2 hard points a ship gains a hangar bay that can contain a total number of ships equal to the base ship's silhouette so for 5 it can hold up a silhouette 5 ship, but an additional modifier allows this to be increased by 5 according to the core rule book so deducting an extra 2 hard points would allow for the ship to hold up to 10 or 6 Silhouette craft?

Still sounds like a 6 Silhouette ship would be a better fit but until I can take a closer look at the Lantillan Short Hauler I won't know for sure, thanks anyway!

If you look to the Citadel-class light freighter for inspiration, it is certainly possible to put docking clamps on a Silhouette 4 ship that can be used to carry Silhouette 3 fighters. Carrying such fighters in an internal hangar requires a bigger ship (as you noted).

I don't see why you would allow your players to have a huge amount of hidden storage anyway. That takes away from the roleplay and the danger of being a smuggler in the first place. If you look at the Falcon in Episode 4, it had enough room to smuggle those on board. It was just a small space under the floor. I can't justify a huge amount of storage being hidden.

I don't see why you would allow your players to have a huge amount of hidden storage anyway. That takes away from the roleplay and the danger of being a smuggler in the first place. If you look at the Falcon in Episode 4, it had enough room to smuggle those on board. It was just a small space under the floor. I can't justify a huge amount of storage being hidden.

Do you realize how much Encumbrance Capacity it takes to hide three adult humans, a wookiee, and two droids?

I don't see why you would allow your players to have a huge amount of hidden storage anyway. That takes away from the roleplay and the danger of being a smuggler in the first place. If you look at the Falcon in Episode 4, it had enough room to smuggle those on board. It was just a small space under the floor. I can't justify a huge amount of storage being hidden.

Do you realize how much Encumbrance Capacity it takes to hide three adult humans, a wookiee, and two droids?

Let alone Han's ego and their weapons and possibly whatever else they're hiding in there (I feel a Robot Chicken moment coming on!)...

Just a quick question, am looking at porting over a Lantillan Short Hauler into an edge game and perhaps age of rebellion depending on what happens during the game.

Now previously I was thinking it could carry 3 Z-95 Headhunters by means of external attachments to the outside of the ship so that pilots would have to EVA to the fighters which then detach and fly off (I picture them being able to VTOL), however I've finally got to reading the bit about modification particularly the hangar bay and I wanted to make sure I understood this right.

At a cost of 2 hard points a ship gains a hangar bay that can contain a total number of ships equal to the base ship's silhouette so for 5 it can hold up a silhouette 5 ship, but an additional modifier allows this to be increased by 5 according to the core rule book so deducting an extra 2 hard points would allow for the ship to hold up to 10 or 6 Silhouette craft?

Still sounds like a 6 Silhouette ship would be a better fit but until I can take a closer look at the Lantillan Short Hauler I won't know for sure, thanks anyway!

So far...

Modified Lantillan Short Hauler

http://starwars-exodus.wikia.com/wiki/GX1_Short_Hauler'>Lantillan Short Hauler

Length: 27m

Crew: 2

Passengers: 6

Cargo Capacity: 85 metric tons (prior to hangar alterations)

Carried Craft: Modified Escape Pod

Consumable: 1 Month

Hyperdrive: Primary: Class 1, Backup: Class 10

Navcomputer: Yes

Cost: 200,000 (new), 25,000 (used)

Silhouette: 4 (27m)

Sensor Range: Not sure possibly Long

Speed: 6

Handling: 0

Defence (Shield) 2/1

Armour: 4

Hull Integrity: 22 (Guesswork mostly)

Strain Threshold: 16 (Also guessed at)

Hardpoints: 4 (seemed about right)

Weapons:

Two Medium Laser Cannons

Fire Arc: they're located in a turret atop of the ship with a 360' fire arc but not beneath the ship.

Range: Close

Damage: 6

Critical: 3

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/GX1_Short_Hauler'>Nice map of the inside of this ship

All of the above is largely guesswork feel free to correct it!

Currently thinking of having 3 Z-95 Headhunters attached to the exterior assuming one on each side and originally one on top the presence of the turret suggests that won't be a good idea since if its attached it can only fire to the rear of the ship as a Z-95 in front of it might prove problematic.

Still need to know how the hangar bay modification works though and how much cargo space it deducts!

Thanks in advance for any advice!

You know the more I look at those linked pages the more I think I need to modify it so it has an extra deck underneath but would it be easier to increses its Silhouette to say 5 to explain how its functioning as a fighter carrier even if only for 3 fighters?

So currently 27m long, 12m wide and 9m in height

A Z-95 is 11.7m long so carrying 3 is going to be tough even on the exterior...

So maybe 30m long, 15m wide with a height of 18m to accommodate the extra deck where the Z-95's are stored before being launched?

Still think the exterior docking is probably a better idea though!

First, as has been covered, but perhaps not explicitly enough: Smuggling Compartments does not add encumbrance capacity. And as has been noted, its perhaps intended for silhouette 4 starships, but not useless for larger ships. The Action VI is basically, you could at least assume due to capacity, just a huge container with engines (and some crew quarters and stuff)... and hidden compartments still need to be inconspicuous, if the Action VI seems to have a large false bottom... then, well, that's a poor idea... so the limit seems to make sense to me.

As for the retrofit for larger ships, consider this: silhouette 6+ ships usually comes with a hangar, if not, they're really designed for something else than carrying ships, right? So retrofitting them isn't going to come with huge benefits through this type of modification I'd say.

Also, from what I (mis)understand in the start of this thread, the Hangar bar retrofit doesn't add any encumbrance capacity.

Realistically speaking, anything silhouette 7+ is more like a small town up to a medium sized city than a smuggling vessel. Rather than using customization hard points to create smuggling compartments for the entire ship, I'd say individuals would customize their rooms to have smuggling compartments, or specific sections of the ship (like the medical bay) would have said compartments.

I would simply house rule that smuggling compartments on these ships don't take up hard points. These vessels have thousands or tens of thousands of encumbrance worth of space, and as is pointed out on page 266 of the EotE core rule book, capital ship encumbrance listing is just the minimum since you could easily store crap in the halls, under bunks, strapped to the ceiling, etc.

You might even apply this rule to silhouette 6 ships as well, which also regularly have thousands of base encumbrance capacity.

As for capacity, I think basing it off of the size of the ship is reasonable. Perhaps the square of the silhouette?

2 - 4 base

3 - 9 base

4 - 16 base

5 - 25 base

6 - 36 base

7 - 49 base

8 - 64 base

9 - 81 base

This would allow size 2-4 vehicles more opportunity to have a smuggling compartment, albeit with less capacity (so size 4 freighters would suffer). Larger ships might not have to take up hard points, but they DO have to pay for the modification.

Just a quick question, am looking at porting over a Lantillan Short Hauler into an edge game and perhaps age of rebellion depending on what happens during the game.

Now previously I was thinking it could carry 3 Z-95 Headhunters by means of external attachments to the outside of the ship so that pilots would have to EVA to the fighters which then detach and fly off (I picture them being able to VTOL), however I've finally got to reading the bit about modification particularly the hangar bay and I wanted to make sure I understood this right.

At a cost of 2 hard points a ship gains a hangar bay that can contain a total number of ships equal to the base ship's silhouette so for 5 it can hold up a silhouette 5 ship, but an additional modifier allows this to be increased by 5 according to the core rule book so deducting an extra 2 hard points would allow for the ship to hold up to 10 or 6 Silhouette craft?

Still sounds like a 6 Silhouette ship would be a better fit but until I can take a closer look at the Lantillan Short Hauler I won't know for sure, thanks anyway!

Just trying to clarify your understanding of the modification for the retrofit hanger - each modifier adds +1 to the total silhouette that can be stored, so the normal hanger with 1 modifier added, on a Silhouette 5 freighter, would allow them to carry a total of 6 Silhouette of vehicles (so two Sil 3 fighters).

Would you need a Retro Fit Hanger for trying to carry a Speeder Bike or 2 Speeder Bikes on a Silhoutte 4 ship? Bikes are small and narrow either where it can be loaded like cargo.

Necromancy anyone?

Would you need a Retro Fit Hanger for trying to carry a Speeder Bike or 2 Speeder Bikes on a Silhoutte 4 ship? Bikes are small and narrow either where it can be loaded like cargo.

Details will be filled by your GM, but the basic answer is no, you don't need a retrofitted hanger to carry any vehicle if you wish to do so as cargo. You only need the hanger if you want to be able to carry the vehicle assembled and have it rapidly deployable in flight.

If you just want to push a speeder up the loading ramp and tie it down you don't need anything special. The argument could be made that you could carry an entire starfighter assuming you have the time to take it apart, shrink wrap the components, and put it all on pallets...

I think a hangar bay is more for deploying a starship. You need to protect it from the vaccuum of space, otherwise everything will get sucked out when you open the hangar doors. For speeder bikes, I sincerely hope you aren't planning on deploying them in space...so, you know, you can just open the cargo bay doors and drive them in or out, no special space-proof hangar required.

I think a hangar bay is more for deploying a starship. You need to protect it from the vaccuum of space, otherwise everything will get sucked out when you open the hangar doors. For speeder bikes, I sincerely hope you aren't planning on deploying them in space...so, you know, you can just open the cargo bay doors and drive them in or out, no special space-proof hangar required.

Which brings us right back to how much volume / weight a unit of encumbrance actually represents since we don't have a conversion of silhouette to encumbrance.