Can a player use Assault of the Kraken to initiate an additional challenge during the Epic Phase?

Event text:

Response: After you win an unopposed challenge,you may initiate an additional challenge of the same type this phase (this additional challenge must be the next challenge you initiate). If that additional challenge is opposed, neither player wins the challenge.

To be a little more specific on the debate, let's say the Epic Phase is created by Battle for the Shield Islands(because it's text stating "may declare a single challenge" might specifically prevent this):

Plot: After the dominance phase this round there is an epic phase during which each player may initiate a single challenge of his choice. Characters with 1 or more enhancements may be declared as attacker or defenders while kneeling. Instead of normal claim, the winner of each challenge may choose and take control of a location controlled by the losing opponent. (Place this card next to your plot deck until the end of this epic phase.)

If this cannot be done, what if the Epic Battle did not state "single challenge" and instead stated "a challenge"?

Epic Battle events specify that players can initiate a "single challenge." That means that each player only gets one shot at the "initiate challenge" framework window. In the language of the timing chart for the challenge phase, there is no "active player's next challenge opportunity" arrow in the Epic Phase. As soon as the first player's challenge resolves, the status of "active player" passes - no matter what effects they may have played.

Said another way, you could play "Assault of the Kraken" in the Epic Phase if you wanted, but since you will only ever have the single "initiate challenge" opportunity as the active player, you will never be able to actually use the additional challenge.

Epic Battle events specify that players can initiate a "single challenge." That means that each player only gets one shot at the "initiate challenge" framework window. In the language of the timing chart for the challenge phase, there is no "active player's next challenge opportunity" arrow in the Epic Phase. As soon as the first player's challenge resolves, the status of "active player" passes - no matter what effects they may have played.

Said another way, you could play "Assault of the Kraken" in the Epic Phase if you wanted, but since you will only ever have the single "initiate challenge" opportunity as the active player, you will never be able to actually use the additional challenge.

Thanks for the prompt reply ktom.

Can this event be used at all then in combination with cards like Lucas Blackwood that allow declaration of a challenge outside of the challenges phase? What you are stating suggests I cannot unless it acts as a "copy" of the overall challenge and how it was declared?

Keeping in mind that the exact timing of the Epic Phase has never been diagramed anywhere, I'd say the following. There are two different types of effects that allow you to initiate extra challenges:

1. First, there are effects like Assault of the Kraken which simply allow you to initiate an "additional" challenge without any other information as to when or how. These effects, therefore, allow you an additional "challenge opportunity," which will require you to initiate that additional challenge through a normal "initiate challenge" framework window. Since, as discussed above, each player only gets one "initiate challenge" framework opportunity in the Epic Phase, these aren't going to be able to give you extra challenges in the Epic Phase.

2. Finally, there are effects like Lucas Blackwood and Shadow Politics that allow you to initiate challenges "as a player action." On the face of it, these should work in the Epic Phase. The problem, however, is that the FAQ tells us that you are not allowed to initiate a challenge while another challenge is taking place, and there are no player action windows in the Epic Phase outside of the duration of a challenge (that's right: FFG has said there is no "pre-challenge" player action window in the Epic Phase, which means there is no player action window between the challenges of different players, either).

So, the end result is no extra challenges are possible in the Epic Phase by any current game effect or mechanism.

Keeping in mind that the exact timing of the Epic Phase has never been diagramed anywhere, I'd say the following. There are two different types of effects that allow you to initiate extra challenges:

1. First, there are effects like Assault of the Kraken which simply allow you to initiate an "additional" challenge without any other information as to when or how. These effects, therefore, allow you an additional "challenge opportunity," which will require you to initiate that additional challenge through a normal "initiate challenge" framework window. Since, as discussed above, each player only gets one "initiate challenge" framework opportunity in the Epic Phase, these aren't going to be able to give you extra challenges in the Epic Phase.

2. Finally, there are effects like Lucas Blackwood and Shadow Politics that allow you to initiate challenges "as a player action." On the face of it, these should work in the Epic Phase. The problem, however, is that the FAQ tells us that you are not allowed to initiate a challenge while another challenge is taking place, and there are no player action windows in the Epic Phase outside of the duration of a challenge (that's right: FFG has said there is no "pre-challenge" player action window in the Epic Phase, which means there is no player action window between the challenges of different players, either).

So, the end result is no extra challenges are possible in the Epic Phase by any current game effect or mechanism.

I completely agree with that, but my next question was really targeting all other phases that are not the Epic phase and challenges phase. Like, can this be used after you win an unopposed challenge initiating using Lucas Blackwood's ability during the Marshaling phase? If this event requires you to actually be able to normally declare a challenge, then I'm thinking this cannot be used with any challenges outside of the Challenge phase.

I completely agree with that, but my next question was really targeting all other phases that are not the Epic phase and challenges phase. Like, can this be used after you win an unopposed challenge initiating using Lucas Blackwood's ability during the Marshaling phase? If this event requires you to actually be able to normally declare a challenge, then I'm thinking this cannot be used with any challenges outside of the Challenge phase.

Ah. Got it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

You are correct. Effects that let you do an "additional challenge" without giving you any other information about when or how to initiate it will be useless outside of the Challenge Phase because you never get to an initiation opportunity or framework. Assault of the Kraken + Lucas Blackwood will not equal two challenges in the plot phase (for example) because there is no place in the timing structure for you to initiate the challenge Assault would permit you to initiate.

I'd like to point out that War of Five Kings doesn't use the word "single" in its text (all other Epic Battle events do):

Plot: After the dominance phase this round,there is an epic phase in which each player may initiate an additional challenge of his or her choice. Instead of the normal claim effects,any player who loses one of these challenges as the defender must select his or her next plot card at random. (Place this card next to your plot deck until the end of the epic phase.)

As written, it would seem to allow additional challenges declared as framework actions.

I completely agree with that, but my next question was really targeting all other phases that are not the Epic phase and challenges phase. Like, can this be used after you win an unopposed challenge initiating using Lucas Blackwood's ability during the Marshaling phase? If this event requires you to actually be able to normally declare a challenge, then I'm thinking this cannot be used with any challenges outside of the Challenge phase.

Ah. Got it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

You are correct. Effects that let you do an "additional challenge" without giving you any other information about when or how to initiate it will be useless outside of the Challenge Phase because you never get to an initiation opportunity or framework. Assault of the Kraken + Lucas Blackwood will not equal two challenges in the plot phase (for example) because there is no place in the timing structure for you to initiate the challenge Assault would permit you to initiate.

No problem at all! Thank you very much for bearing with me on my crazy questions and providing your insight.