I tried to touch upon this in another thread but I am currently so excited about it that I will do so again. How many cycles do you think we shall see before the LotR saga is over? And do you think we shall see any more after that? And what will they be?

If we only see one (after Saruman), I am guessing it may well consider the Battles in the North, as that would give more possibilities as far as the geography is concerned (going as South as Lothlórien).

Also, will the time-line for any further cycles change? I would think so, with the saga going on in the mean time. I don't think they can really pretend these two things to be independent (within the single game).

Any comments appreciated.

i figure, and still do, that we shall see a saga box for each book in the lotr. so 6. i think that will take 3 years, once any delays are taken into consideration.

so i think we will see 3 more deluxe cycles, so now 2 after the rohan one.

i think that the cycles will actually go more to the unknown lands or arnor perhaps, as this makes it easier to fit in with the saga packs as there is less chance of wierd lore cross overs

rich

In the other LCG's there's almost no end to the deepness of lore. No limits in Warhammer, CoC is slowing down but still has a lot to build on. Star Wars has just begun and won't even scratch the surface of stories to build upon for the next decade Netrunner has also just begun and since there's no really limited universe they can go on for a long time too. Then there's AGoT which has been on the worked a long time also, but new a new book have come out and more is on their way so it will take some time before this resource is emptied out as well. But how about LotR? How long can they go on with the license they have now? Only thing I know is that they don't have the rights to use Silmarillion. But how about the test of the History of Middleearth? Any suggestions? Will there be a point within the next few years where FFG is forced to either come up with some thin stories or maybe have to stop due to lack of rights to make good stuff?

i dont think it will end with the Lord of the rings saga boxes. It may do, but the fact that they are still continuing to release other cycles alongside them, using a different timeline, means that it doesnt have to be the end.

i suppose they could also release some cycles that work alongside the hobbit's timeline. There is a lot of stuff to do with the dragon, the dwarves in the mountain, and ruined towns that was not touched upon by the bilbo saga boxes.

I feel that too, but I'm in no position to decide how much story there is to build cycles on. Could be 3 as one suggested, could be 12 or 20 for what I know

To be honest I don't like much saga boxes since I already play so many lotr game about book story. I was really happy with that special story in the cycles. Anyway everything is cool and with NM I also happy.

In the other LCG's there's almost no end to the deepness of lore. No limits in Warhammer, CoC is slowing down but still has a lot to build on. Star Wars has just begun and won't even scratch the surface of stories to build upon for the next decade Netrunner has also just begun and since there's no really limited universe they can go on for a long time too. Then there's AGoT which has been on the worked a long time also, but new a new book have come out and more is on their way so it will take some time before this resource is emptied out as well. But how about LotR? How long can they go on with the license they have now? Only thing I know is that they don't have the rights to use Silmarillion. But how about the test of the History of Middleearth? Any suggestions? Will there be a point within the next few years where FFG is forced to either come up with some thin stories or maybe have to stop due to lack of rights to make good stuff?

The big difference between LotR and the rest that you mention is that LotR is a very special story, and once the saga has ended it might feel a bit anti-climactic to go on with other quests. On the other hand, Middle-earth is so expanded that they could have made up many quests from the little stories in the history. But it is not what they chose to do.

So, as you say, unless they go back in time, I don't think they have that much time left. In that way, I think it would be better if they took it slow with the saga and release perhaps 3 boxes in two years time, so that we get three more years of the game after this one.

But of course, all of the above is only based on the presumption that they will not go on after the Lord of the Rings. Do you think they would?

If your game is called "The Lord of the Rings" (as opposed to "Middle Earth" and such), saga expansions about the books themselves are unavoidable. As I've said many times, the Lord of the Rings is not a world or a mere setting, it's a story, and as such you have to do stuff that plays on the books themselves. Now, of course that doesn't mean you are restricted to that story, and of course you can delve into the lore of other places and storylines and whatnot, as this game has been doing. Besides, there is so much stuff you can do in Middle Earth that I don't think that this will be over by the time the sagas are over. If they have the righs, they will obviously explore as much as they can since saga expansions are separate from the rest anyway. So I think we will see in the future stuff like the blue wizards, the unexplored far east or the far north, etc. There is no reason at all to stop the game once the sagas are done.

i think they'll continue to produce the game as long as it makes money. If interest dwindles i wouldn't even necessarily guarantee we'll see the end of the lord of the rings, but if it continues to sell i see no reason why it wouldnt continue long after the saga expansions

interesting question. one that is probably going to be answered more by sales and so on than for thematic reasons (unfortunatly)

as you have said the difference between this and other lcg's is the story- it is quite simply, shorter. that isnt saying tolkiens work is less deep and rich becuase its the opposite. however much of tolkiens creations are in back stories, side tales, and legends that go far back in time.

this is in contrast to the likes of warhammer which is based in a conflict world which has always been open ended. they even get different authors to write the warhammer novels, and of course its largely based upon the battle minitures.

the other problem of course is that tolkien is unfortunatly long dead and not going to write any more material, and his son has not taken up the fiction-based story tellng of his father but rather gone down the historic path of tolkiens notes and drafts etc....totally useless for this game

so i have typed 4 paragraphs there without answering your question, but i do not think we can at the moment

rich

The big difference between LotR and the rest that you mention is that LotR is a very special story, and once the saga has ended it might feel a bit anti-climactic to go on with other quests.

Says you. I would not care if they decide to continue exploring Middle Earth after the sagas.

On the other hand, Middle-earth is so expanded that they could have made up many quests from the little stories in the history. But it is not what they chose to do.

Umm, yes it is?

So, as you say, unless they go back in time, I don't think they have that much time left. In that way, I think it would be better if they took it slow with the saga and release perhaps 3 boxes in two years time, so that we get three more years of the game after this one.

I agree in that they should take it slow, but not because once they release these 6 boxes htey have to wrap up the whole thing altogether.

But of course, all of the above is only based on the presumption that they will not go on after the Lord of the Rings. Do you think they would?

Yes.

On the other hand, Middle-earth is so expanded that they could have made up many quests from the little stories in the history. But it is not what they chose to do.

Umm, yes it is?

not necessarily. our quests are based upon well known events. what ffg have not done is expand any of the lesser known tales. all of our quests can be derived straight from the lotr or the hobbit

looking at the appendices would give us 10 years more material without having to make up a sentence (which we know they can do because of the hunt for gollum)

not necessarily. our quests are based upon well known events. what ffg have not done is expand any of the lesser known tales. all of our quests can be derived straight from the lotr or the hobbit

looking at the appendices would give us 10 years more material without having to make up a sentence (which we know they can do because of the hunt for gollum)

Yes, some of them are derived or are similar to the ones from the books, but are not the ones from the books. Most of the stories in the game I would say are invented, like rescuing the eagle in rhosgobel, fighting the trolls from the carrock (which I know is simialr to roast mutton, but its still not the same), or the steward's fear (based I suppose on the new shadow). They are loosely based on them but all the other stuff like the characters are invented or placed there for the story. For example, we know there was a asiege in Cair Andros at some point in the return of the king, but other than that we know nothing more about it, so I consider it to be a new story (there could have been many sieges on Cair Andros), and don't even get me started on Encounter at Amon Din, The Blood of Gondor or the Morgul Vale. Sure, the army of Gondor did go to the gates of Mordor near the end of the books, but that doesn't change the fact that this story about this Faramir rescuing bulls*** and these new enemies is in fact an original story, just because it's the same place.

EDIT: tl;dr: If you look at the cycle's story as seen in the backs of the quest cards as a whole, they ARE original stories.

Ok, so how do you imagine the storyline after the saga (for the Lord of the Rings, mind you - as you say) go? "Well, there was once this really evil guy, he's now gone, but that doesn't meant we should stop fearing him?" That doesn't make much sense to me.

as you have said the difference between this and other lcg's is the story- it is quite simply, shorter. that isnt saying tolkiens work is less deep and rich becuase its the opposite. however much of tolkiens creations are in back stories, side tales, and legends that go far back in time.

so i have typed 4 paragraphs there without answering your question, but i do not think we can at the moment

rich

Well I think you did anyway that's what I wanted confirmed, that there might be enough to go back on after the saga ends

The big difference between LotR and the rest that you mention is that LotR is a very special story, and once the saga has ended it might feel a bit anti-climactic to go on with other quests.

Says you. I would not care if they decide to continue exploring Middle Earth after the sagas.

Ok, so how do you imagine the storyline after the saga (for the Lord of the Rings, mind you - as you say) go? "Well, there was once this really evil guy, he's now gone, but that doesn't meant we should stop fearing him?" That doesn't make much sense to me.

And last I would just make an apology to OP. Even if it is the same subject as the one you started I didn't mean to hijack your thread A really greater subject you started here by the way

Yes, some of them are derived or are similar to the ones from the books, but are not the ones from the books...... but that doesn't change the fact that this story about this Faramir rescuing bulls*** and these new enemies is in fact an original story, just because it's the same place.

I don't think the problem isn't that they were 'original' stories,

I think the problem is that they are slightly altered story that takes place in different time with different characters but with similar circumstances and atmosphere.

Flies and Spiders in Core Set was travelling East to West with as a messenger of Woodland King, but it sure felt very similar to Flies and Spiders from the Hobbit Book; they even used the quote from that chapter as flavour texts.

Journey down the Anduin was from Northern Anduin to Lothlorien, and we were ambushed by Orcs of Dol Guldur and not Orcs of Isengard, but the circumstances (travelling by River with enemy ambush at the end) sure felt similar to The Great River from FotR.

But these quests were made before FFG had licence to the events of the books. They only had rights for the timeline (Bilbo's Bday to Frodo's departure), then later they got the licence to actual events of books and made Saga Expansions.

Now that they know they can and will make quests based on the events from the book, I think (hope) they will stir away from 'similar to events from book' quests to more obsecure/appendix based quests.

Ok, so how do you imagine the storyline after the saga (for the Lord of the Rings, mind you - as you say) go? "Well, there was once this really evil guy, he's now gone, but that doesn't meant we should stop fearing him?" That doesn't make much sense to me.

There was evil before Sauron and after Sauron.

Gondor and Rohan knew no peace for atleast few decades after Sauron's demise, as they were busy conquering and securing Gondor's old borders as well as fighting a war in Haradhrim territories to show them who's the boss.

How do I imagine what the storyline after Saga would be?

Just like right now, events right before the Saga but in different locations. Think of it as prequels if that helps.

The name of the card game is so irrelevent as The Lord of the Rings: Card Game had no rights to the actual stories of the Lord of the Rings in the first place; it's something they aquired after the game's launch.

So we've been to the Mirkwood, Northern Anduin Vale, Southern Misty Mountains, Mainland Gondor so far and will visit Isengard and surrounding area next Cycle.

What about Eriador and the Rangers defending Free People? What of Northern Misty Mountains and Grey Mountains and the Orcs from Gundabad? What of abandoned fortress of Angmar? Elves' flight to Grey Heaven? The broken bridges of Tharbad and abandoned Harbour of Lond Daer? Druadan living in Druwaith Iaur? Mordor thieving horses from Rohan? The disputed lands of Harondor? Easterling army building right across river Carnen? The never-ending sea battles between Umbar and Gondor's costal cities? The few brave tribes of East and South trying to resist the evil ways of Sauron/Melkor? Sauron's messenger to the Dale and Erebor? What events happened that caused strange Dwarves and men to head up the Greenway to Bree? Radagast's quest to find Gandalf and why it took him so long? Who first encountered the Nine Riders and spread the word they were abroad? Rivendell and the Trollshaw forests and Etteenmoor that is infested with Trolls.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty more that I couldn't think on top of my head, and also now that they have licence to cover even more events, they can easily do a relaunch of the game (or Season 2... whatever you call it) to include even broader timeline which would just exponential the potential questlines.

There are enough materials to keep the game going until the game inevitably gets 'out of fashion' and FFG decides it is no longer profitable to support the game; how long that would be would depend on number of Tolkien fanatics that would still purchase the game when they start delving into less-known to public lores.

Ok, so how do you imagine the storyline after the saga (for the Lord of the Rings, mind you - as you say) go? "Well, there was once this really evil guy, he's now gone, but that doesn't meant we should stop fearing him?" That doesn't make much sense to me.

I don't think anyone experts a storyline AFTER the saga story. I think what is meant is that there might be enough lore to make quests/story lines that takes place BEFORE the saga. (Capitals not meant as sarcasm, just emphasis )

i think this is what it comes to- whether you like the idea of going back in time or not after the climax of the saga. personally i think its an unsual thing to do, but i guess perhaps even ffg do not know how long this game will last, so perhaps want to be flexible....or perhaps they wanted to get the saga in now incase sales drop and we are left hanging without ever having gone to mount doom and the lcg (sadly) ends.......i dont know, and i guess only ffg truely knows what influenced their descision..personally ld love another interview with caleb but this time pose some tough questions for him..really get into the engine of this game

if, after the last saga pack, we go back to 'preludes' as i can forsee them being commonly referred to from now on, then i would be happy....anything to keep the game going really

Yes, some of them are derived or are similar to the ones from the books, but are not the ones from the books...... but that doesn't change the fact that this story about this Faramir rescuing bulls*** and these new enemies is in fact an original story, just because it's the same place.

I don't think the problem isn't that they were 'original' stories,

I think the problem is that they are slightly altered story that takes place in different time with different characters but with similar circumstances and atmosphere.

Flies and Spiders in Core Set was travelling East to West with as a messenger of Woodland King, but it sure felt very similar to Flies and Spiders from the Hobbit Book; they even used the quote from that chapter as flavour texts.

Journey down the Anduin was from Northern Anduin to Lothlorien, and we were ambushed by Orcs of Dol Guldur and not Orcs of Isengard, but the circumstances (travelling by River with enemy ambush at the end) sure felt similar to The Great River from FotR.

But these quests were made before FFG had licence to the events of the books. They only had rights for the timeline (Bilbo's Bday to Frodo's departure), then later they got the licence to actual events of books and made Saga Expansions.

Now that they know they can and will make quests based on the events from the book, I think (hope) they will stir away from 'similar to events from book' quests to more obsecure/appendix based quests.

Ok, so how do you imagine the storyline after the saga (for the Lord of the Rings, mind you - as you say) go? "Well, there was once this really evil guy, he's now gone, but that doesn't meant we should stop fearing him?" That doesn't make much sense to me.

There was evil before Sauron and after Sauron.

Gondor and Rohan knew no peace for atleast few decades after Sauron's demise, as they were busy conquering and securing Gondor's old borders as well as fighting a war in Haradhrim territories to show them who's the boss.

How do I imagine what the storyline after Saga would be?

Just like right now, events right before the Saga but in different locations. Think of it as prequels if that helps.

The name of the card game is so irrelevent as The Lord of the Rings: Card Game had no rights to the actual stories of the Lord of the Rings in the first place; it's something they aquired after the game's launch.

So we've been to the Mirkwood, Northern Anduin Vale, Southern Misty Mountains, Mainland Gondor so far and will visit Isengard and surrounding area next Cycle.

What about Eriador and the Rangers defending Free People? What of Northern Misty Mountains and Grey Mountains and the Orcs from Gundabad? What of abandoned fortress of Angmar? Elves' flight to Grey Heaven? The broken bridges of Tharbad and abandoned Harbour of Lond Daer? Druadan living in Druwaith Iaur? Mordor thieving horses from Rohan? The disputed lands of Harondor? Easterling army building right across river Carnen? The never-ending sea battles between Umbar and Gondor's costal cities? The few brave tribes of East and South trying to resist the evil ways of Sauron/Melkor? Sauron's messenger to the Dale and Erebor? What events happened that caused strange Dwarves and men to head up the Greenway to Bree? Radagast's quest to find Gandalf and why it took him so long? Who first encountered the Nine Riders and spread the word they were abroad? Rivendell and the Trollshaw forests and Etteenmoor that is infested with Trolls.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty more that I couldn't think on top of my head, and also now that they have licence to cover even more events, they can easily do a relaunch of the game (or Season 2... whatever you call it) to include even broader timeline which would just exponential the potential questlines.

There are enough materials to keep the game going until the game inevitably gets 'out of fashion' and FFG decides it is no longer profitable to support the game; how long that would be would depend on number of Tolkien fanatics that would still purchase the game when they start delving into less-known to public lores.

Pretty much this and what thomasschmidt said. There is not a defined order of storylines in this game besides the saga expansions (and of course the stories from a deluxe expansion to the end of the cycle), just random adventures in random places, to put it bluntly. The cycles themselves are not interconnected (there's no real storyline order from Mirkwood cycle to Dwarrodelf to ATS) and could take place at pretty much any time of the War of the Ring and before it. So besides the saga expansions, I don't feel this game has much of a sotryline connectineg everything, so I would not mind (in fact I wish they did) if they explore different locations in new cycles that don't deal directly with Sauron (such as, for example, a mission to Harad to ask for aid to the blue wizards or maybe going northwest to reclaim lost treasure, etc) And those storylines could take place either during the War of the Ring meanwhile Frodo goes to Mordor, or before it or even after it. I think that's the whole point of the game.

To me, the Saga Expansions are separate from the "main game". I don't really view it as going back in time to continue the timeline before LOTR, as those will continue in their course while the Sagas are their own separate thing.

To me, the Saga Expansions are separate from the "main game". I don't really view it as going back in time to continue the timeline before LOTR, as those will continue in their course while the Sagas are their own separate thing.

Yeah, but the evil after Sauron is not the Lord of the Rings. That is what I was pointing out. And Gizlivaldi specifically pointed out that this is Lord of the Rings, which it is. The evil after has little (or nothing) to do with it.

ps: "Says you," Gizlivaldi is a bit, infantile, don't you think? Of course this is all about "says me" and "says you," it cannot be more pointless to point that out.

The explanation I am inclined to (pretend to) believe is that saga has nothing to do with the cycles, then of course, there are many ways to make new cycles in many different areas, all taking places in the defined timeline (between the departures of Bilbo and Frodo) and all connected, and leading into, the events of the Lord of the Rings.

Yeah, but the evil after Sauron is not the Lord of the Rings. That is what I was pointing out. And Gizlivaldi specifically pointed out that this is Lord of the Rings, which it is. The evil after has little (or nothing) to do with it.

ps: "Says you," Gizlivaldi is a bit, infantile, don't you think? Of course this is all about "says me" and "says you," it cannot be more pointless to point that out.

It's Gizlivadi

And yes, I did say that this is the Lord of the Rings. But if you read my post again, you'll see that I also said that it shouldn't be restricted only to the Lord of the Rings. That means I agree and hope that we will see stuff further from the main trilogy, but that we should at least have the trilogy itself in the game. Also, I think you should read the posts that argue that the next quests shouldn't necessarily take place after the Lord of the Rings, as i've said. Many if not most of them take place in an ambiguous "Thrid Age" scenario, which means they can take place before, during or (depending on the place) after the Lord of the Rings, since it's not really stated in the product and they're not really linked to anything besides their own cycle. So it's not like after the last saga expansion every cycle will take place after the fall of Sauron.

What I meant by "says you", is that it's not necessarily the case that it will be anti-climatic for people to have more quests after the saga expansions. In fact most people seem to agree and welcome the possibility of there being more quests after them.

I'm hopeful that we will see continuing adventures once the Saga boxes end. I got the definite impression back when Over Hill & Under Hill was announced that Saga expansions are 'aside' from the main game. I can't quite pin this down in the initial announcement, but the phrase

While standard expansions imagine new and untold stories in Middle-earth, this Saga Expansion allows players to participate directly in the events from the beloved fiction of J.R.R. Tolkien

definitely sets it apart for me. The saga expansion is an event, an expansion within the stream of expansions. Taken in that way, for me, it seems odd to think that the game would end with the defeat of Sauron, because the Sagas don't dictate the course of the game, these 'standard expansions' do. Also, the fact that these standard boxes are imagining new and untold stories in the familiar setting strikes a particularly resonant chord for me as a Star Wars fan, drawing a strong parallel with the expanded universe there. In that respect, Star Wars is six movies surrounded by over a hundred novels and even more comics, and has been massively successful. In this sense, this game is Middle Earth's equivalent, as we see other stuff that was happening. Just because Frodo was off to Mount Doom didn't mean the rest of Middle Earth stood still - there is scope for far more adventures to be set concurrently with the 'main' timeline. I actually have no idea when the Against the Shadow cycle is supposed to be set, but have no problem imagining it happening at the same time as Frodo is approaching Bree, for example. Denethor isn't going to be sat in that empty hall waiting for his cue to join the story, after all.

I'm assuming, though, that the saga boxes will be spread out. Taking recent history as the pattern, I'm assuming we'll be getting one saga box released in the Autumn, then the other in February(ish), with the deluxe falling somewhere in between and the next cycle taking up the most part of the year. So we should be seeing the final saga box, assuming six to tell the story of the whole Lord of the Rings, in or around February 2016. Then perhaps, we'll see a pattern of two cycles being released per year, or thereabouts, with deluxe expansions at the appropriate points. But all that is based on my own conjecture!

However, as has already been mentioned, it's far more likely that sales will drive the continuance of this game rather than constraints in the lore. It is also entirely natural to suppose that there will be a falling-off of sales once the King has returned, though to what degree will remain to be seen. I'd like to think that, by that time, whoever casually bought into this game because of the lure of the actual LotR storyline from the saga boxes will be hooked and will continue to snap up every adventure pack, but I'm biased. In this respect, then, I can entirely see this game changing direction to match Warhammer and Call of Cthulhu, and going to quarterly or even four-monthly expansion boxes. And I think I'd be happy with that (not only because I usually end up buying four of the deluxe expansions for the encounter sets). As it stands, we get nine quests per year for the 'main/standard game' anyway, so having a four-monthly release schedule wouldn't disrupt that whatsoever. Player cards would slow down, of course, but people have already discussed the now-dwindling stable of characters that remain to see their card forms, so moving to this release schedule would also solve that issue, to some degree. By the time 2016 rolls around, though, we should have a pretty **** good player card-base, anyway. Provided that we continue to have solid quests with good narrative focus and high levels of theme, I'm happy

I actually have no idea when the Against the Shadow cycle is supposed to be set, but have no problem imagining it happening at the same time as Frodo is approaching Bree, for example. Denethor isn't going to be sat in that empty hall waiting for his cue to join the story, after all.

firstly nice points on the packs lengthening out- i think this will happen towards the end of the saga sets

im not sure either on the ATS timing, but boromir takes 110 days to ride from gondor to rivendell, so i think it must be set during frodo's waiting period for gandalf to return to the shire (i think....i dont have the dates to hand, but im guessing its near then)

rich