Lawl, WHAT?!? The dial is red... but it isn't red. Listen to yourself.

Here's exactly what the card says: "When you reveal a red maneuver..."

OK, that's where you stop. The maneuver is already red. That's all the rule on page 17 needs to trigger. What you treat the maneuver as afterwards no longer matters. You can treat it as being fuchsia if you want, you still revealed a red maneuver.

The dial is red, till you use the card (which overrides the rulebook). That's the point of the one-use upgrade card. That's the way I'm reading it.

The dial is red, till you use the card (which overrides the rulebook). That's the point of the one-use upgrade card. That's the way I'm reading it.

What is it overriding?

The rule that there is a red maneuver revealed and the opponent gets to choose a different maneuver. The card overrules and takes precedence. It takes effect first, and the maneuver is treated as white, so it's legal at that point.

Again, it's a single use card. How is this such a huge problem?

Good lord, page 20 is not a get out of jail free card. You have to abide by the rules as much as possible, and there is absolutely no conflict between Adrenaline Rush and the rules because you can do both. How is this such a huge problem?

The rule that there is a red maneuver revealed and the opponent gets to choose a different maneuver. The card overrules and takes precedence. It takes effect first, and the maneuver is treated as white, so it's legal at that point.

Again, it's a single use card. How is this such a huge problem?

The thing is you are right, it's a single use card it's not a huge problem. However as written it just doesn't do this. When the check is made it's red. Even if you change it afterwards, the check has still been made and has come out positive.

Not knowing the RAI (only Fantasy Flight can know this), I have to fall on WonderWAAAGH's side on this. I don't think RAW you can use the card in this case.

If they FAQ it to say otherwise. I will be exstatic (well OK I won't, but I won't be unhappy). I do think you should be able to use this card in this situation. But without a statement from FF all we have to work with is RAW.

Because that's super counter-intuitive. Using AR to counteract all negative red maneuver effects ONCE is the point of the card. Having some weird quasi-effect in some cases is really counter to the design philosophy of X-Wing.

Because that's super counter-intuitive. Using AR to counteract all negative red maneuver effects ONCE is the point of the card. Having some weird quasi-effect in some cases is really counter to the design philosophy of X-Wing.

It still can be used to counter the effect of a red maneuver, and you can still do 2 reds in a row. You just have to use it to counter the first red so you don't get stressed in the first place. It still has uses.

Because that's super counter-intuitive. Using AR to counteract all negative red maneuver effects ONCE is the point of the card. Having some weird quasi-effect in some cases is really counter to the design philosophy of X-Wing.

The point of the card is to prevent you from receiving a stress token, not prevent you from being subjected to an obscure part of the rule book because you already have one. That's 100% intuitive.

Lawl, WHAT?!? The dial is red... but it isn't red. Listen to yourself.

Here's exactly what the card says: "When you reveal a red maneuver..."

OK, that's where you stop. The maneuver is already red. That's all the rule on page 17 needs to trigger. What you treat the maneuver as afterwards no longer matters. You can treat it as being fuchsia if you want, you still revealed a red maneuver.

But the card doesn't stop there. The card goes on to say that you treat the maneuver as white for the rest of the Activation Phase, and since it says "When" instead of "If" or "After", the point that it starts being treated as a white maneuver is the point at which the dial is revealed.

Lawl, WHAT?!? The dial is red... but it isn't red. Listen to yourself.

Here's exactly what the card says: "When you reveal a red maneuver..."

OK, that's where you stop. The maneuver is already red. That's all the rule on page 17 needs to trigger. What you treat the maneuver as afterwards no longer matters. You can treat it as being fuchsia if you want, you still revealed a red maneuver.

But the card doesn't stop there. The card goes on to say that you treat the maneuver as white for the rest of the Activation Phase, and since it says "When" instead of "If" or "After", the point that it starts being treated as a white maneuver is the point at which the dial is revealed.

We could go around in circles all night, but we wouldn't get anywhere.

You could well be right. Its a one-point card, so its ability shouldn't be that great. Maybe only using it when you aren't already stresses is as far as it is supposed to go. But the way the card is written, that's how I see it working. Maybe Hothie can get an answer for this one while he's at Gencon as well.

OK, looking into it more deeply and going back to the wording of the card and the book.

Adrenal Rush :

When you reveal a red maneuver , you may discard this card to treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of Activation phase.

If a ship already has a stress token assigned to it and it reveals a red maneuver during the Activation phase, the opposing player chooses any non-red maneuver on that ship’s dial for the ship to execute.

The book says, "and it reveals a red maneuver ", which I think is exactly the same as saying When you reveal a red maneuver. So I would say, the same timing stop.

Q: If a player has multiple effects that resolve
at the same time, can he resolve them in
any order?

A: Yes.

If both effects happen in the same timing stop then the FAQ states it's up to the ships player which order they apply. So he chooses to use the "When you reveal a red maneuver, you may discard this card to treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of Activation phase." first. Then to do the check to see if it's a red maneuver.

SO... YEAH.. I go back on what I said. It can be used RAW, going back to original source and FAQ.

OK, looking into it more deeply and going back to the wording of the card and the book.

Adrenal Rush : When you reveal a red maneuver , you may discard this card to treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of Activation phase.

If a ship already has a stress token assigned to it and it reveals a red maneuver during the Activation phase, the opposing player chooses any non-red maneuver on that ship’s dial for the ship to execute.

The book says, "and it reveals a red maneuver ", which I think is exactly the same as saying When you reveal a red maneuver. So I would say, the same timing stop.

Q: If a player has multiple effects that resolve

at the same time, can he resolve them in

any order?

A: Yes.

If both effects happen in the same timing stop then the FAQ states it's up to the ships player which order they apply. So he chooses to use the "When you reveal a red maneuver, you may discard this card to treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of Activation phase." first. Then to do the check to see if it's a red maneuver.

SO... YEAH.. I go back on what I said. It can be used RAW, going back to original source and FAQ.

OK, looking into it more deeply and going back to the wording of the card and the book.

Adrenal Rush : When you reveal a red maneuver , you may discard this card to treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of Activation phase.

If a ship already has a stress token assigned to it and it reveals a red maneuver during the Activation phase, the opposing player chooses any non-red maneuver on that ship’s dial for the ship to execute.

The book says, "and it reveals a red maneuver ", which I think is exactly the same as saying When you reveal a red maneuver. So I would say, the same timing stop.

Q: If a player has multiple effects that resolve

at the same time, can he resolve them in

any order?

A: Yes.

If both effects happen in the same timing stop then the FAQ states it's up to the ships player which order they apply. So he chooses to use the "When you reveal a red maneuver, you may discard this card to treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of Activation phase." first. Then to do the check to see if it's a red maneuver.

SO... YEAH.. I go back on what I said. It can be used RAW, going back to original source and FAQ.

Both effects trigger at the same time. If you choose to change it to a white maneuver first, your opponent will still get to change it again. The rule on page 17 doesn't check to see what the dial is presently showing - it only cares what was revealed in the first place, which was a red maneuver.

Only if you take it as an effect that can be seperated into a check and at a different point in the turn the opponent changing the dial. I don't believe you can do this, nothing else in the game works this way.. If you take the whole thing as a block, which I believe you have to, these are the two effects.

• Timing: When you reveal a red maneuver Effect: Check if you have a stress token, if you have one the opposing player chooses any non-red maneuver on that ship’s dial for the ship to execute.
• Timing: When you reveal a red maneuver Effect: You may discard this card to treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of Activation phase.

By the FAQ, if this is the case. It's up to the player of the ship which order these 2 are carried out.

Right, he gets to choose if he wants to treat it as a white maneuver and then let his opponent fiddle with the dial, or let his opponent fiddle with the dial and then treat it as white. His opponent gets the dial either way.

Right, he gets to choose if he wants to treat it as a white maneuver and then let his opponent fiddle with the dial, or let his opponent fiddle with the dial and then treat it as white. His opponent gets the dial either way.

Nope. Your reading something into the rules that is just not there. Your reading that you check the dial value (if you have stress) ... then do the card ... then fiddle with the dial.... There is NOTHING in the rules that suggests that the timing splits this way. Even if it could be split, the check happens When you reveal the dial , you get the choice to change it to a white When you reveal the dial . SO it's still up to the player playing the fighter which order the check and the card play would resolve even if the fiddling with the dial was split off.

I'm not reading anything that isn't there. Both the rule and the card text are clear as day.

1) You reveal the dial. The dial is red.

2) Both the rule on page 17 and the Adrenaline Rush trigger - but do not resolve - simultaneously. This is the one and only "check" either of them need. The maneuver is still red at this point.

3) The active player has two simultaneous actions to resolve, in whatever order he chooses: letting his opponent change the dial, or treating it as white for the remainder of the turn. Adrenaline Rush says nothing about treating it as if it were white before the card resolves.

But the check is also something that happens in a timing stop, it must happen at some point. The way it's worded the point that the check is done is the same timing stop as the Adrenal Rush card uses. Why do you believe that the check gets to go first?

Are you arguing that you reveal a red maneuver is a different timing stop to it reveals a red maneuver , there is no timing document that says it is. As far as English is concerned it's the same phrase, just from a different viewer to the proceedings.

The check happens at the same time, but it really doesn't matter. It could happen afterwards and the result would be the same. The rule specifically states "if a ship has a stress token assigned to it and it reveals a red maneuver..." etc etc, not "if a ship has a stress token assigned to it and is currently showing a red maneuver." At that point and forever afterwards, a red maneuver will have been revealed. The distinction is huge, and incredibly clear.

The bottom line: if you reveal a red maneuver, you've revealed a red maneuver. Adrenaline Rush doesn't take that back, it just lets you treat it differently afterward. The rule on page 17 stands.

The check happens at the same time, but it really doesn't matter. It could happen afterwards and the result would be the same. The rule specifically states "if a ship has a stress token assigned to it and it reveals a red maneuver..." etc etc, not "if a ship has a stress token assigned to it and is currently showing a red maneuver." And that point and forever afterwards, a red maneuver will have been revealed. The distinction is huge, and incredibly clear.

But if the check happens second it won't be showing a red maneuver when the check happens as it will have been altered to a white till the end of the turn by the card .

I guess what your suggesting is it goes back in time an checks what the state was when the counter was first revealed. But I don't feel this is how this game works, from all evidence it treats things as bundles which happens at a point in time, with no memory of previous states. Which is why two items that happen in the same timing step can have different results depending on the order you resolve them.

In this kind of system you start the bundle, run it through to the end, move onto the next one. So the timing would break down like this

• The "When you reveal a red maneuver" segment of your turn starts.
• You have 2 events that happen in this segment, as the player of the ship chooses order.

• You resolve the card, changing the dial to a white maneuver

• You perform the check, it checks the current value of the dial which is white. So it doesn't trigger the rest of this event

• The "When you reveal a red maneuver" segment of your turn ends.

No and yes. There IS no second check. The rule on page 17 doesn't care at all what you change the maneuver to, or what you treat it as at that point in time. All it cares about is what was revealed in the first place, when both triggers occurred. Did you reveal a red maneuver? You must have, otherwise you can't use Adrenaline Rush. And if you revealed a red maneuver, your opponent gets to play with your dial.

Don't think of it as looking back in time. Look at it as sitting around and minding its own business after it sees that a red maneuver was revealed, waiting for the player to decide when it resolves. The resolution itself is a forgone conclusion.

• The "When you reveal a red maneuver" segment of your turn starts.
• You have 2 events that happen in this segment, as the player of the ship chooses order.
• You resolve the card, changing the dial to a white maneuver
• You perform the check, it checks the current value of the dial which is white. So it doesn't trigger the rest of this event
• The "When you reveal a red maneuver" segment of your turn ends.

No. No no no no no. For the love of god, please re-read page 17. There is absolutely nothing that hints at checking the current status of the dial, only what was actually revealed in the first place.

Right but the Card happens during the "When you reveal a Red Maneuver" phase, the phase doesn't end until the card is resolved, therefor during the "When you reveal a Red Maneuver" phase the counter is both red and white, it's indeterminant. Which is why you break it down into events and do each event in order.

• The "When you reveal a red maneuver" segment of your turn starts.
• You have 2 events that happen in this segment, as the player of the ship chooses order.
• You resolve the card, changing the dial to a white maneuver
• You perform the check, it checks the current value of the dial which is white. So it doesn't trigger the rest of this event
• The "When you reveal a red maneuver" segment of your turn ends.

No. No no no no no. For the love of god, please re-read page 17. There is absolutely nothing that hints at checking the current status of the dial, only what was actually revealed in the first place.

The issue is that the card happens simultaneously to the check.. they both happen in the same Timing Stop. You can't say that the check happens before the card goes into effect any more than you can say it happens after. They both happen when the counter is revealed. In situations like this the rules say that the player of the ship chooses which order two simultaneous events in the game take place.