I'm reluctant to post this question but...

Can you play Adrenaline Rush while stressed and if so does the other play get to change your dial?

I know this may end up being a timing conversation but

1) Please no personal attacks this time.

2) If you don't agree state your point and MOVE ON restating the same point 10 times doesn't convince anyone and only brings you closer to point 1.

Thank you for your help?

Both rules and card say "when revealing the maneuver dial", and since the rules also say that individual cards overrides the rules where they contradict, I would say that revealing a red maneuver and then activating (and discarding) Adrenaline Rush while stressed would result in moving the desired maneuver whithout interference from the opponent.

Cool, what page? and yes I'm looking too, haha

I think it will be clarified in the next FAQ.

Revealing a red maneuver while stressed: p17:

"If a ship already has a stress token assigned to it
and it reveals a red maneuver during the Activation
phase, the opposing player chooses any non-red
maneuver on that ship’s dial for the ship to execute."

Adrenaline Rush:

"When you reveal a red maneuver, you may discard this card to treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of the activation phase."

Rules contradictions p20, blue box:

"Some abilities on cards conflict with
the general rules. In case of a conflict,
card text overrides the general rules."

I find this to be a typical example of card text overriding the general rules, thus activating a red maneuver while stressed and then choosing to activate Adrenaline Rush would result in that ship performing the desired maneuver.

Also if two effects occur simultaneously you may choose the order you resolve them in, with the odd minor exception

Revealing a red maneuver while stressed: p17:

"If a ship already has a stress token assigned to it

and it reveals a red maneuver during the Activation

phase, the opposing player chooses any non-red

maneuver on that ship’s dial for the ship to execute."

Adrenaline Rush:

"When you reveal a red maneuver, you may discard this card to treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of the activation phase."

Rules contradictions p20, blue box:

"Some abilities on cards conflict with

the general rules. In case of a conflict,

card text overrides the general rules."

I find this to be a typical example of card text overriding the general rules, thus activating a red maneuver while stressed and then choosing to activate Adrenaline Rush would result in that ship performing the desired maneuver.

You know what get me, is this saves sooooo much trouble and several other issues/questions I've thought of solves itself right here. Duh!

We always remember the part about "If one card ability forbids an effect, while another ability allows it, the effect is forbidden." But forget about "Some abilities on cards conflict with the general rules. In case of a conflict, card text overrides the general rules."

So I could (hopefully) read this as not a timing issue at all. The "card text overrides the general rules." Relief,

Thanks

You're welcome!

Both effects - AR and the dial change - are triggered at the same time. AR doesn't actually do anything to counter or change the dial selection effect, so rule precedence doesn't come into play.

Put another way, even if it goes first, by the time AR changes the color of the maneuver, the dial change is already triggered and in the pipe. Nothing in the AR effect stops that from resolving.

Both effects - AR and the dial change - are triggered at the same time. AR doesn't actually do anything to counter or change the dial selection effect, so rule precedence doesn't come into play.Put another way, even if it goes first, by the time AR changes the color of the maneuver, the dial change is already triggered and in the pipe. Nothing in the AR effect stops that from resolving.

Think I'm probably bwing stupid but could you clarify.

Scenario: I'm stressed. I reveal a red but use adrenaline rush.

Do I perform a white but gain a stress?

Do I activate the illegal move clause meaning my opponent chooses my move and hence waste AR?

Yes to the second point would suggest AR only viable if not already stressed

Ah, that's the very question

Both effects - AR and the dial change - are triggered at the same time. AR doesn't actually do anything to counter or change the dial selection effect, so rule precedence doesn't come into play.Put another way, even if it goes first, by the time AR changes the color of the maneuver, the dial change is already triggered and in the pipe. Nothing in the AR effect stops that from resolving.

Think I'm probably bwing stupid but could you clarify.

Scenario: I'm stressed. I reveal a red but use adrenaline rush.
Do I perform a white but gain a stress?

Do I activate the illegal move clause meaning my opponent chooses my move and hence waste AR?

Yes to the second point would suggest AR only viable if not already stressed

Ah that's the very question,

tinnitus has suggested that you do not activate the illegal move clause

but Buhallin suggests that you do activate the illegal move clause.

I'm afraid we may need more clarification from FFG.

Will probably not be resolved without FFG input, but...

You are stressed. You declare a red.

Both AR and the "opponent picks dial" effects trigger.

Same timing, so you choose the order.

Do AR first, maneuver is now white.

Now you resolve the dial change. Even though the maneuver isn't red any more, the effect still resolves. X-wing doesn't have any clauses for checking requirements at resolution, so the fact that the maneuver is now white doesn't matter.

Can someone send this to whoever at ffg these things get sent to.

Ive read a lot of the endless discussions on here which seem to be differences in opinion/ interpretation and find they are often about rare occurences.

I feel this is quite a major one.

Thx

Will probably not be resolved without FFG input, but...You are stressed. You declare a red.Both AR and the "opponent picks dial" effects trigger.Same timing, so you choose the order.Do AR first, maneuver is now white.Now you resolve the dial change. Even though the maneuver isn't red any more, the effect still resolves. X-wing doesn't have any clauses for checking requirements at resolution, so the fact that the maneuver is now white doesn't matter.

hear and understand what your saying, guess i. just hope its not true, wishfull thinking.

I will wait.

We always remember the part about "If one card ability forbids an effect, while another ability allows it, the effect is forbidden." But forget about "Some abilities on cards conflict with the general rules. In case of a conflict, card text overrides the general rules."

Some of us don't.

Unfortunately, better phrasing could have made this more clear. If AR's text read "treat the maneuver as if you had revealed a white maneuver," or if the rules text read "if an opponent attempts a red maneuver while he has a stress token" (implying that the maneuver dial has already been revealed), then there'd be no doubt that your opponent can't tool around with your dial. As it is, I'm afraid that the "may" clause makes it clear that the maneuver is definitively red when you reveal it, only giving you the opportunity to change it afterwards. The opponent still gets a crack at your dial, because you've fulfilled the requirements that allow him to do so.

To put it another way, changing your maneuver to a white one does not retroactively replace the one that you actually revealed, which is all the rule on p. 17 cares about.

To put it another way, changing your maneuver to a white one does not retroactively replace the one that you actually revealed, which is all the rule on p. 17 cares about.

Posted this elsewhere so here it is too.

As a long time Magic player, I've learned the importance of very specific card text. Honestly, this looks pretty cut and dry to me. Both the card and the rules text occur when you reveal the maneuver dial, that much is obvious. Then you get to choose which effect occurs first, but it doesn't matter at that point. No matter how many times you change the maneuver, no matter what you change it to afterwards, you will always and forever afterwards have revealed a red maneuver. The word "revealed" is absolutely key here. That's all the rule cares about, so it's going to resolve.

Edited

retracted

Do the x-wing rules include any sort of 'stack' concept?

I think the argument may hinge on whether one exists or not and is possible one's interpretation of that depends on whether you are coming from a CCG or a boardgame viewpoint.

If there is a stack, then Adrenaline Rush whilst stressed is useless as the events resolve in some sort of order.

If there is no stack, the Adrenaline Rush text replaces the general rule wholesale and Adrenaline Rush has two uses - perform a hard maneuver and take an action or perform a hard manouver whilst stressed.

The fact that the general rules talk only about allowing and forbidding actions, and do not touch on the order in which those are activated leads me to believe there is no stack.

The rules aren't entirely clear here. I think I would go with the "if there is a conflict go with the card" crowd and let it happen without the opponent choosing a new maneuver, but there is a legit argument to be made either way. I just think Adrenaline Rush makes the most sense that way, but that's pure opinion and "feeling" in the absence of hard rules to follow.

There is no official stack, and there's definitely no conflict. I don't have the rules text handy, but if two effects occur simultaneously, the active player gets to choose which one to resolve first - so they do exist in some kind of simultaneous quasi-limbo. It's already been pointed out that, in this particular case, it really doesn't matter which one resolves first. The rules text will trigger either way, and it will check to see if a red maneuver was revealed. So if you resolve the card first, you can change the red maneuver to a white one. Then the rules text will resolve, because a red maneuver was revealed. What happened after the reveal is immaterial. Your opponent gets to choose your move. What's interesting is that if you elect to use the card second, you treat whatever your opponent chooses as white. For all of the good that will do you...

WonderWAAAGH:

The reason it is unclear is because lacking an official "stack" we don't know what actually "goes on the stack". Do the effects alone go on the stack, or does the entire action go on the stack including the "status check" that is performed as part of that action.

Do we set the stack like this:

Maneuver Dial is revealed.

1 - Adrenaline Rush. Check to see if the maneuver is red, if so make it white.

2 - Check to see if maneuver is red, if so opponent changes dial. Since the maneuver was white when we checked, nothing happens.

Or does it go on like this.

Maneuver Dial is revealed,

1 - Both Adrenaline Rush and General rule re: red maneuvers and stress are triggered. The EFFECTS of those states are both placed on the stack:

2 - Adrenaline rush effect is performed, maneuver is made white.

3 - General rule effect is performed, opponent rotates dial.

The question lies in what you define as resolving a particular action. Does the player get to choose what order "status checks" and their effects are resolved in, and do those "status checks" resolve as part of the action itself, or do they all resolve simultaneously and then have their "effects" go on the stack in whatever order the player wishes. In other words, can you interrupt a card halfway?

There is zero guidance provided in the rules for this, other than the nebulous conflict resolution verbiage. An excellent opportunity for an elegantly crafted FAQ to clear things up for all of us.

It's the second one, not the first. Look at what I said earlier, in post #16. The rules only check to see what was actually revealed, not what maneuver it becomes afterward. If the card read "treat the maneuver as if you had revealed a white maneuver," that would be different. But it doesn't, it only changes it to white at some point after the reveal.

Think of it this way: the rules text is equivalent to a clause on a Magic card that reads "play this spell only if you cast a green creature this turn." If you cast a green creature spell, but then changed the color of it afterwards with another effect, you would still be able to cast that other spell.