As it may be out of the topic of the EH topic, I would like to invite you continuing the discussion here.

The open quote could be this one:

I am very surprised that many AH addicts enjoyed Elder Sign (which I personnaly found hyper-boring) but did not enjoy the MoM experience (which I did obviously). Reciprocally, and that is an interesting point, in the MoM community, many players did not enjoyed AH. Intriguing, really.

Open question : does the players background (either from rpg-narration games or from strategy-like games) may have something to do with it?

A a response to klaymen_sk

Interesting point of view that we barely read. Here are further thoughts on this.

What did you dislike in the narration system? That it is not open enough for investigators?

I think that MoM is more related to gamebook (like Arkham Investigation is) than truely to rpg, I believe.

What did you not like in the combat system?

I found them rather neat. I like the idea that all cards are unique in the game.

Although MoM is clearly not an rpg, I enjoy it as an hybrid. When we play rpg, we do not use rules, as they tend to be boring and take out what we love in rpg games: acting. Here, as it is an hybrid, rules don't bother us; we feel that the game is open enough so that we can act the scenes.

Anyway, I'd be happy to read more of your thoughts on this.

best

response to xuzuthor

Good point. Though, many games are cooperative and several are very cool to that regard. But AH is an immersive game, whereas ES is not (well at least it did not appeared to me as it).

warm regards

As someone that plays AH for the imaginative elements (I usually play by myself so my mind tends to wander while I play) I would love to have a more RPG-based element involved in the over all gameplay. It's why I like the Personal Stories. They add that little flavor to the characters and makes them more real.

The problem is, it's a board game, obviously. That means that, at the end of the day, it's going to be about how you twist mechanics. CoC and other pen and paper games can be played strictly by mechanics, but that's not their point entirely. It's meant to let you play either as a game, as actors and storytellers or a combination of the two.

Therein lies the issue here--MoM may in fact be a very bold attempt to create an RPG in boardgame form, but without the ability to create your own characters, to chose that you not only want to play a dilettante but a dilettante with an interest in automobiles that loves racing cars, rather than just 'The Dilettante' you're never going to have that immersion that true pen and paper provides. Sure, I could play as Jenny Barnes and have her act as Jenny might, but it is going to cause a huge collapse in gameplay. Descent is close from what I've heard, or playing any of the red-box starters from D&D since you can just flip genders. There's not really little pieces and the like that strictly limit you to being 'A female dilettante' or 'An old professor'.

Therein lies the issue here--MoM may in fact be a very bold attempt to create an RPG in boardgame form, but without the ability to create your own characters, to chose that you not only want to play a dilettante but a dilettante with an interest in automobiles that loves racing cars, rather than just 'The Dilettante' you're never going to have that immersion that true pen and paper provides. Sure, I could play as Jenny Barnes and have her act as Jenny might, but it is going to cause a huge collapse in gameplay. Descent is close from what I've heard, or playing any of the red-box starters from D&D since you can just flip genders. There's not really little pieces and the like that strictly limit you to being 'A female dilettante' or 'An old professor'.

I am not entireley clear on what you wrote but I suspect we share the same opinion.

Though, not being able to create your character is not a major obstcale to play an rpg (see LARP, for example, or any scenario where the characters are preset : that is no bother). I usually do not care much about creating a character when an rpg session is open.

I am not sure I get this point:

"[...] but it is going to cause a huge collapse in gameplay"

would you mind explaining differently ?

regards

I am not sure I get this point:

"[...] but it is going to cause a huge collapse in gameplay"

would you mind explaining differently ?

regards

No problem! XD

Think of it like this: Jenny, in her personal story, is shown to be very driven when it comes to finding her sister. So, naturally, someone roleplaying as close to her character would want to finish her personal story right away--narratively speaking, it makes sense, right? That's Jenny's driving motive for investigation.

Now, Jenny starts off with ten bucks, and everyone knows she's a shopper in terms of game mechanics. So, let's say that I wanted to play on Jenny's personality, rather than mechanics. Jenny would want to save her sister and beat the guys that did this in the first place. Thus, I would have to chose--do I continue to let Jenny play as she is designed to be played--the Shopper--or, do I play her as a heroine, guns blazing, and have her run after every cultist that pops up? She's not designed for that, it doesn't make sense to play her as that, but roleplaying makes me want to play her as that sort of person, rather than the gal that just gets supplies for everyone else.

Because I'm essentially not spending money, the one thing she is really good at, her usefulness suffers.

Thus, you're left with the dillema. Roleplay as you see fit, and see the party suffer for it because you're not playing the game-specified role, or ignore roleplay elements and have Jenny do what she was mechanically designed to do.

What did you dislike in the narration system? That it is not open enough for investigators?

I think that MoM is more related to gamebook (like Arkham Investigation is) than truely to rpg, I believe.

What did you not like in the combat system?

I found them rather neat. I like the idea that all cards are unique in the game.

Although MoM is clearly not an rpg, I enjoy it as an hybrid. When we play rpg, we do not use rules, as they tend to be boring and take out what we love in rpg games: acting. Here, as it is an hybrid, rules don't bother us; we feel that the game is open enough so that we can act the scenes.

The narration as a whole is limited. The players are limited by the boardgame mechanics ("You can do either this, this, or this. Nothing else."), the Keeper is limited by game components ("Would like to create a scenario in a desert or the Antarctic? In Istanbul? London? Well, you have some house tiles and some grass tiles, so deal with it."). I don't like GM fiat in RPGs and MoM shoves it down my throat, because I am limited by the scenario and not by my imagination.

In an RPG? The sky is the limit. Or the common sense.

The combat.....*shudder*

So you draw cards until you draw an attack with the weapon you have, that's all fine and dandy. But why on earth are there several ability rolls which are dealt randomly? For example a character with high strength and low agility (dexterity?) draws an attack with an agility roll, where he has a low chance to succeed. Why the hell would a sane person attack with a style he is not good at? It is like a guy with low Fight and a magical weapon attacked a magic immune monster in Arkham Horror.

If I want an interesting story, there are RPGs. If I want a boardgame, there are boardgames. So why play something that fails in both aspects? Too cumbersome for a boardgame, too limited for an RPG.

By the way you have asked about Elder Sign as well, and I like it because it doesn't pretend that it is something more than it actually is.

EDIT: sorry for the wall o' text.

Maybe, amikezor, you are asking the wrong question. This seems to be shaping up like a lot of conversations I have had about RPGs over the past few years. This may be a question of old school vs. new school.

The new school of RPG players expect that everything be written down in a book, that the GM is not allowed to change that book and the players want to Min-Max their characters to be massive killing machines that just plow through dungeons like a Mad Max character killing everything in sight.

The first indication I get is when someone says they don't like 'x' in AH and then do nothing to change it. I love AH because you can CHANGE anything. Nobody seems to want to acknowledge the players contributions to the game because whenever you say that a problem has been resolved I get asked 'what page in the rule book is that on?'. When I say it was solved by the fans it is immediately brushed aside.

The problem is the fans know more about the game at this point than the creators and I would almost rather play a fan generated item, be it a rule change or a whole expansion, than something more 'official'.

The true problem lies in the fact that games are made by humans who are not perfect and all have differing opinions about how a game should be made. This is why I liked RPGs because when you sat at the GM's table it was his or her game. Any major changes to the rules needed to be written out and explained to a player BEFORE they joined the group and then if you sat at that table you agreed to play by those rules. Good GM's always had more players than would fit at a table and bad ones had empty tables and generally changed or quit. Social Dawinism in action.

And I fall in the 'like ES and AH' camp (not into the LCG and MoM isn't built for solo but its problems run far deeper than that) but I'm dropping ES because the expansion just didn't do it for me and when I pull down a Lovcraft game to play it is always AH these days.

EH creates a situation that I believe is going to lead to a lot of in fighting and confusion and no game needs the 'D&D Effect'-never splinter the base.

This will begin with the following topic:

"Which should I buy - Arkham Horror or Eldritch Horror?"

And as they used to proclaim in the old videogame fighting games - "FIGHT!"

FWIW

Aye, apart from the obnoxious rules problems I covered in many different threads (and I don't want to cover once more here) the point is that the only thing that MoM did to me or the people I played with was the irresistible desire to start playing Call of Cthulhu RPG again. And we did it, and we had a blast. And there is nothing comparable to the thrill of those old adventures in any MoM scenarios.

Plus, as others said, some stuff is totally ridiculous, I had a four-hour scenario of MoM with Michael who kept on using his Tommy Gun as a club... really, I don't need a proxy for an RPG (especially not a proxy plagued with countless problems), I need a good RPG. And we have some

Wow, so much responses as I was one day off

I will try to respond to all of you guys. Thank you for posting your state of mind about this, this is very nice of you. I am quite happy to read opinions about this question.

@Dr Faust: yes, I do agree with you. AH has clearly more boargame mechanics elements into it. So it tends to drive the way of playing into some directions. However, you can enjoy a good game with Jenny, even without spending your time in the shops, I believe.

@kalymen_sk: As you have at few different points in your post, I will do my best to comment them one at a time.

* About the limit of a boardgame, when compared to an rpg. Yes, I totally agree with you. When no material is used beside words, your limits expands. Though LARPs (I do not mean the medieval ones, that do not fit my taste) have usually a very long persistence time in my mind even though they are strongly constrained by the real world. Interestingly, one main point of HPL is that the mythos lies beyond the realm of words. Imagine if we could play rpg without even using the language. That'd be an experience.

* About the combat. Well, if you look carefully at the combat cards, the abilities are not random. E.g., most of the ranged weapon cards use Marksmanship. The only ones that don't are because the situation did not end up as 'you are aiming at your opponent'. They represent the cases where the monster had a lucky roll in its attack and now you have to dodge, handle a close combat, etc. All in all, I found this card meachanics especially clever that leads to interesting narrative combat.

*About the ES, I am not sure the best ad for an entertainement product is 'it doesn't pretend that it is something more than it actually is'

* In general, hybrids are a major path to innovation. I may well be the case that MoM isn't at your taste (and I can confess, this is not my favorite game ever either), it has interesting innovations. Although it downsides the roleplaying side and the strategy side, it has always left a positive impact on most of the palyers I have played with. Most of my friends that don't like it, are the ones that lie on the strategic side. I am very happy to read someone that did not enjoy it for the opposite reason.

@suicidepuppet: Old school vs new school. I am totally on your side. I may be too old to knew that some rpg players are stuck to the book (really ?). As I mentionned earlier, I like to play rpg without the rules, mostly entirely geared to acting and improvisation. Did you try 'Fiasco', an rpg with no GM? (I found it very compelling). As far as AH or MoM is concerned, we take all liberty to change anything we do not like.

@Julia: Agree, playing an rpg is very enjoyable. I remember you did not enjoyed the MoM experience, for several reasons; most of which are strategy related, if I recall correctly. I totally respect this position, although I don't really stand by it. (I tried to be as nice I could; was it ok? )

Anyway, thank you guys for taking some your time to post your opinion here. Please keep posting if you fell like it.

Cheers

The new school of RPG players expect that everything be written down in a book, that the GM is not allowed to change that book and the players want to Min-Max their characters to be massive killing machines that just plow through dungeons like a Mad Max character killing everything in sight.

Dear God that sounds hideous!!!

Ironically, this isn't a new argument. When D&D first came out many, many moons ago, there were arguments in TSR's (which you can read in the Best of Dragon Magazine) along the lines of "if you change the rules of poker, you're not playing poker, and if you're change the rules of D&D, it's not D&D"

TSR dropped that line pretty quickly as it was obvious that no-one in their right mind would stick to the rulebook in a game where imagination was the most important commodity.

@Julia: Agree, playing an rpg is very enjoyable. I remember you did not enjoyed the MoM experience, for several reasons; most of which are strategy related, if I recall correctly. I totally respect this position, although I don't really stand by it. (I tried to be as nice I could; was it ok? )

Sure, no probs with this! Actually, I'm happy if the game makes other people happy! But I'd love, one day, to play a MoM game with you (just the two of us) so that we can actually talk about everything that happens in a game, and knowing why you like it and telling you why I don't like it!

(anyway, yes, some were strategy related, most were related to the way the game is structured: the biggest problem is that you're allowed to know what to do for winning a game even without finding clue n.1. So for instance a Scenario whose victory condition for the investigator is escaping the foyer could see investigators actually fleeing the foyer - I imagine to tell the police the story - without knowing why. And this is a complete turn-off. Not to mention the idea of monsters entering and exiting the same room and dealing every time sanity damage to investigators. MoM has an interesting engine, but it breaks too often and too easily, often making the scenario totally boring. Additionally, cards are cycled way too fast, so that the flavour text and the action description that are fun at the beginning, are not so welcome after 4 hours of gaming. The combat system is obnoxious, way to slow and offering improbable situations. Finally, if the synchro among the different parts is not perfect, the crystal pyramid of the game crumbles to dust. I was told most of the problems are fixed thanks to Call of the Wild: the problem now is that everyone in my gaming group including me is so totally pissed off by what happened before that months could pass before someone asks again for MoM)

Anyway, as said, I'm more than happy that a lot of people enjoy MoM. And I'm sure fan will brew home made scenarios to make the game even better! As for me, I prefer playing other games, and that's all

The new school of RPG players expect that everything be written down in a book, that the GM is not allowed to change that book and the players want to Min-Max their characters to be massive killing machines that just plow through dungeons like a Mad Max character killing everything in sight.

Dear God that sounds hideous!!!

Ironically, this isn't a new argument. When D&D first came out many, many moons ago, there were arguments in TSR's (which you can read in the Best of Dragon Magazine) along the lines of "if you change the rules of poker, you're not playing poker, and if you're change the rules of D&D, it's not D&D"

TSR dropped that line pretty quickly as it was obvious that no-one in their right mind would stick to the rulebook in a game where imagination was the most important commodity.

And I'm not kidding. That was a conversation with a 4th edition player that also added, when I suggested fixing something in the rules that he and his party disagreed with, that 'if I wanted to just make up rules I wouldn't have bought the book!' (his language was a tad harsher but you get the idea of where to drop the F-Bombs).

Ugh

Pre-chewed food for tiny birds...so sad...and it really is all about imagination and the lack of it in so many folks these days. The hardcore community doesn't even believe games like FIASCO are even RPGs.

My favorite flavor these days is the stripped down to one page version of the 3.5 SRD designed by Robin Stacey called Microlite 20. It is pure poetry and it's free. An unbelievable feat for a game system that ran into the hundreds of pages to be stripped to 1 page. You can add on anything you like (yes, all my favorite games are modular thus my liking AH) but you can use anything ever written for D&D with it and it works.

Mansions is a curious beast, isn't it? I really liked it the first time we played, so much so we played it again the next night, but since those forays, every other game we've played has been, for me, really flat. I always play the Keeper, presumably because I was always the GM when we used to play RPGs, but the role is just so much more constrained here. Even Call of the Wild has bored me. It seems to be a game that demands a lot from you, perhaps too much. I have enjoyed it in those first plays, and because of that I want to like it again, but it does fall down for me.

AH, of course, is just tremendous, and always such a hard act to follow. Despite the fact that I often feel it is too random and I am having too many seemingly unconnected encounters, it still manages to suck me in and keep coming back for more. I suppose it becomes something of a meta-challenge to make these unconnected encounters into a cohesive whole for the game, which fosters the storytelling urge within me. The biggest departure from Mansions, then, is that the scenario you play there has already been written, whereas you can re-write Arkham with every play. I am also a big fan of options in games. AH has plenty of these. I can play with as much as I like, and am actively encouraged to house-rule to improve my experience of the thing. Magnificent!

The LCG, of course, is just not in the same league. While it is wonderfully developed now, and such, I feel that it is just a combat card game with some wonderful art and Lovecraftian names thrown around. That's not to say I dislike it, of course, I merely have a completely different set of expectations when I get the cards out.

I really like Elder Sign though. I feel so much better-predisposed towards it, which is almost inexplicable really. I have had some truly immersive experiences with this game, to the extent that it doesn't actually matter that all I'm doing is throwing dice around. By itself, it is also a fun game. It does depend on how one derives their fun, of course, but there is often just too much going on in Arkham to really enjoy it at the table - for me, I usually decide if I've enjoyed a game once it has finished. With ES, I'm very conscious of the fact that I'm enjoying the game as it happens. Perhaps this is double-edged, though, as I'm also aware that I'm playing a game, while in AH I feel more involved in the experience and so could perhaps say that I'm right there on the streets? Hm.

Such are my rambling and disjointed thoughts!

Anyway, as said, I'm more than happy that a lot of people enjoy MoM. And I'm sure fan will brew home made scenarios to make the game even better! As for me, I prefer playing other games, and that's all

Great

I understand the points you raised above. And I agree official scenarios tend to be poorly designed. But some fan-made ones make the game magnificent (to us at least )

About Call of the Wild, I did not enjoy its scenarios very much. They are geared to replayable mechanics (maybe less broken but that a point I do not care much about) but the stories are gone. It is much closer to a cluedo game than to an immersive adventure. Though, most of MoM players enjoyed a lot that extension.

really, to me, nothing compare to some of the fan-mades (not all sadly). I can built a list of very good scenarios if anyone is interested.

cheers.

@spalanzi: Thank you for your post. I found your writings very sensitive (except that I don't personnaly feel any immersion while playing ES). For the others, I share your opinion.

To be honnest, I was first more fond of AH, but things change with time and I am now more excited about playing/designing cool scenarios for MoM (or maybe Arkham investigation). Days are sadly too short to do everything we would like. Maybe I simply played Arkham too many times, so I was ready to be sucked into the MoM experience.

warm regards

My favorite flavor these days is the stripped down to one page version of the 3.5 SRD designed by Robin Stacey called Microlite 20. It is pure poetry and it's free. An unbelievable feat for a game system that ran into the hundreds of pages to be stripped to 1 page. You can add on anything you like (yes, all my favorite games are modular thus my liking AH) but you can use anything ever written for D&D with it and it works.

I will check this one asap. It is not entirely heroic-fantasy, is it?

About Call of the Wild, I did not enjoy its scenarios very much. They are geared to replayable mechanics (maybe less broken but that a point I do not care much about) but the stories are gone. It is much closer to a cluedo game than to an immersive adventure. Though, most of MoM players enjoyed a lot that extension.

Yes, it seems a lot of people have been praising this box. The cynical part of me wonders if this is merely because of the widespread dislike of Forbidden Alchemy meaning many folks were relieved with how this was by comparison. Though there are many positive reviews that are pretty articulate on the subject on bgg, so bang goes my theory! I did actually like FA - the Herbert West scenario was a lot of fun, as I recall.

As a secondary theory, it is entirely possible that many people liked CotW because it was so liberating as regards the linear scenarios put out up to this point. This is precisely the reason that I didn't like it, however, even though there was much to enjoy. The aimless investigating just seemed a bit too haphazard to me.

Well, anyway...

really, to me, nothing compare to some of the fan-mades (not all sadly). I can built a list of very good scenarios if anyone is interested.

There is only one good , knowledge, and only one evil, ignorance (Socrates)

If you have time, I'd love to see a list of home brewed scenarios, with maybe one line of description saying why it is good or bad

My favorite flavor these days is the stripped down to one page version of the 3.5 SRD designed by Robin Stacey called Microlite 20. It is pure poetry and it's free. An unbelievable feat for a game system that ran into the hundreds of pages to be stripped to 1 page. You can add on anything you like (yes, all my favorite games are modular thus my liking AH) but you can use anything ever written for D&D with it and it works.

I will check this one asap. It is not entirely heroic-fantasy, is it?

It works with everything. There is a guy who compiles all the different variants that people have constructed along with the base construct as well.

It has grown huge in the last few years. Here is the most recent 2 volume collection:

Vol I: http://www.mediafire.com/file/sqhla8ekwaek3re/Microlite20-RPG-Collection-2012-Volume-I.pdf

Vol II: http://www.mediafire.com/file/u6fn6wc0vk6ii63/Microlite20-RPG-Collection-2012-Volume-II.pdf

And here's a look at what's inside:

Table of Contents

VOLUME I

1. Introduction

2. SECTION ONE

3. Microlite20 Purest Essence [p 9]

4. SECTION TWO

5. Microlite20 [p 28]

6. Microlite20 GM’s Guide [p 31]

7. Microlite20 Expert Rules [p 34]

8. Microlite20 Equipment List [p 37]

9. Microlite20 Fast Packs [p 40]

10. Everything About Skills [p 42]

11. Monster Building [p 47]

12. Campaigns [p 49]

13. Mass Combat [p 52]

14. Minor Variant Rules Collection [p 56]

15. Microlite20 Monster List [p 69]

16. Microlite20 Monster Quick Stats [p 72]

17. Microlite20 Arcane Spells [p 94]

18. Microlite20 Divine Spells [p 95]

19. Microlite20 Apocrypha [p 97]

20. Microlite20 Psionics [p 103]

21. M20 Psionics Rules [p 108]

22. M20 Age Level System [p 120]

23. Microlite20 Variant Rules [p 121]

24. Microlite20 Rune Magic [p 123]

25. Microlite20 Elemental Magic [p 126]

26. Microlite20 Vancian Magic [p 128]

27. Microlite20 Four by Five Magic [p 130]

28. Microlite20 Martial Arts [p 133]

29. Microlite20 Anthro Races [p 136]

30. Microlite20 Mutations [p 139]

31. Microlite20 Mecha [p 143]

32. Microlite20 Mecha Revised [147]

33. Microlite20 Spacecraft [p 154]

34. Wayfarer M20 Options [p 158]

35. Microlite20 Low Talents [p 163]

36. Microlite20 Variable d6 [p 165]

37. Fantasy Character Options [p 166]

38. Fantasy Races & Classes [p 198]

39. Microlite20 True Sorcery [p 208]

40. Microlite20 Tactical System [p 235]

41. SECTION THREE

42. Microlite20 House Rules [p 241]

43. MicroFantasy [p 245]

44. Alter Microlite20 [p 260]

45. Ultramicrolite20 Revised [p 264]

46. Ultramicrolite20 Revised II [p 265]

47. Nanolite20 [p 266]

48. Microlite20 Modern [p 269]

49. M20 Modern: Expert [p 273]

50. Microlite20 Modern-Day [p 277]

51. M20 Hard Core Rules [p 293]

52. Swords against Sorcery [p 300]

53. M20 Heroic [p 308]

54. Iron Heartbreakers [p 315]

55. Microlite11 [p 326]

56. WildWalker’s M20 4e [p 328]

57. Microlite20 Variant 4e [p 332]

58. Microlite 4E [p 337]

59. Micro Action Fantasy [p 339]

60. MULRAH [p 349]

61. Lite20 [p 358]

62. Mini20 [p 369]

63. Realms of Renown [p 393]

64. Microlite74: Basic [p 406]

65. Microlite74: Standard [p 426]

66. Microlite74: Extended [p 454]

67. Microlite74: Companion I [p 486]

68. Microlite77 [p 508]

69. Microlite20 OSS [p 513]

70. Advanced Microlite20 OSS [p 519]

71. Argo [p 526]

72. M20 Hyborian Age [p 535]

73. Microlite Conan [p 538]

74. Prehistoric Microlite20 [p 540]

75. Microlite20 Bronze Age [p 547]

76. Microlite Dark Sun [p 550]

77. Omerian Tales [p 556]

78. Beacon [p 593]

79. WarEngine RPG [p 635]

80. Yamato M20 [p 637]

81. Challenges & Champions [p 660]

82. Microlite20 Elf Lords [p 697]

83. Microlite20 Resident Evil [p 700]

84. Microlite20 Cthulthu [p 703]

85. Microlite20 Vampires [p 707]

86. Microlite20 2012 [p 711]

87. SpyLite [p 714]

88. Giant Bug Invasion [p 733]

89. Cyberpunk [p 738]

90. SuperLite [p 741]

91. Microlite20 Costumes [p 758]

92. Tumbleweed [p 775]

93. Gunsmoke & Goblins [p 780]

94. Owl Hoot Trail [p 785]

95. Microlite Storytelling [p807]

96. TileHack [p 808]

97. Dragoons [p 816]

98. ZombiePocalypse [p 844]

99. Relics & Ruins [p 847]

100. OmegaLite20 [p 853]

101. RABID [p 869]

102. Microlite20 Vermin [p 875]

103. Where No Man Has Gone Before [p 882]

104. Galactic Methuselah [p 932]

105. FrontierLite [p 935]

106. M20 Star Wars [p 937]

107. Microlite20 Star Wars [p 953]

108. Scions of a Primordial Planet [p 961]

109. Micro MechWarrior [p 968]

110. Stargate 1895 [p 976]

111. Blaster D20 Microlite [p 993]

112. Pendragon D20 Microlite [p 1009]

113. Diabolical D20 Microlite [p 1018]

114. PathfinderLite20 [p 1031]

115. SECTION FOUR

116. Character Sheets [p 1076]

VOLUME II

117. SECTION FIVE

118. Microlite20 Golden Edition [p 7]

119. DungeonFinder Player’s Guide [p 149]

120. DungeonFinder GM’s Guide [p 193]

121. DungeonFinder Book of Monsters [p 242]

122. Grimm Lite [p 284]

Anything you can imagine you can play. Mechs vs Cthulhu in the Weird West with Goblins? Check

(NOTE: They missed a typo.- Microlite20 Cthulthu [p 703] )

The LCG, of course, is just not in the same league. While it is wonderfully developed now, and such, I feel that it is just a combat card game with some wonderful art and Lovecraftian names thrown around. That's not to say I dislike it, of course, I merely have a completely different set of expectations when I get the cards out.

This is a really good thread, both in terms of opinions and resources, and I have very little to add to it, except that the above quote has me thinking about the factors that shape my expectations of a game. For example, I still haven't played Elder Sign, but based on the previews and videos I've seen, I imagine that the immersion would break very easily for me, and that my experience would suffer. But at the same time, immersion failures are part of what I absolutely love about the LCG. I defy any of you not to smile at the thought of a Clever Zoog driving a Getaway Car. The game succeeds beautifully, but on its own terms.

And maybe that's why MoM sparks such an ambivalent response...AH, visionary and baroque as it is, is either your kind of game or completely not your kind of game (and you can probably tell without even opening the box), whereas MoM has that "designed by a marketing committee" feeling of being almost the right game for a wider range of people, but just ends up leaving a lot of them frustrated.

(Not that I have anything about hybrids and other crossover-type games, mind you; when they work, they're fantastic, but there's definitely a trade-off between, say, gamist and narrativist elements, and some combinations will work better for a given set of design goals than others.)

I usually don't play with Zoogs, but that thought has made me grin quite a bit!

The point about Elder Sign is very valid. There are probably hundreds of examples that have cropped up (as I've suddenly been playing the game a lot lately), but one that I had in mind specifically when I wrote that over the page was Harvey Walters going against The Curator. I think ES could benefit greatly from more adventure cards that have some sort of character element to them, rather than being representations of a physical object, but that's an aside. I tend to think of the tasks on adventure cards as being akin to skill checks in a RPG, say, and rather than having to roll a 6 to succeed, or whatever, you just have to roll a match. So Harvey is matching wits against the Curator to see how much he knows, and I think it took four attempts (and the intervention of Dr Fern) to succeed, which wasn't so much "the dice hate me" as "Harvey just isn't a match for the mental sparring of The Curator!"

I'm not exactly explaining this very enticingly, but it is definitely, for me, more of an immersive and exciting game than a lot of people give it credit for. If you only expect to have fun, and enjoy the LCG, then I'd definitely recommend ES as well!

About Call of the Wild, I did not enjoy its scenarios very much. They are geared to replayable mechanics (maybe less broken but that a point I do not care much about) but the stories are gone. It is much closer to a cluedo game than to an immersive adventure. Though, most of MoM players enjoyed a lot that extension.

Yes, it seems a lot of people have been praising this box. The cynical part of me wonders if this is merely because of the widespread dislike of Forbidden Alchemy meaning many folks were relieved with how this was by comparison. Though there are many positive reviews that are pretty articulate on the subject on bgg, so bang goes my theory! I did actually like FA - the Herbert West scenario was a lot of fun, as I recall.

As a secondary theory, it is entirely possible that many people liked CotW because it was so liberating as regards the linear scenarios put out up to this point. This is precisely the reason that I didn't like it, however, even though there was much to enjoy. The aimless investigating just seemed a bit too haphazard to me.

Well, anyway...

Another reasons, is that the people who praised the most that expansion were involved in the play-testing. That

is annoying I guess.

By the way, having no linear clue chain is an old idea trhat was used in several fan-made scenarios (as were Allies and most of what is used in Call of the Wild actually :-) ). Though, some of the fan mades kept an excellent narration while

removing the linearity of the clue hunt.

really, to me, nothing compare to some of the fan-mades (not all sadly). I can built a list of very good scenarios if anyone is interested.

There is only one good , knowledge, and only one evil, ignorance (Socrates)

If you have time, I'd love to see a list of home brewed scenarios, with maybe one line of description saying why it is good or bad

I'd be happy to provide my subjective opinion. I will rank and comment all the ones I have 15 fan-mades I have played in the coming week.

cheers

My favorite flavor these days is the stripped down to one page version of the 3.5 SRD designed by Robin Stacey called Microlite 20. It is pure poetry and it's free. An unbelievable feat for a game system that ran into the hundreds of pages to be stripped to 1 page. You can add on anything you like (yes, all my favorite games are modular thus my liking AH) but you can use anything ever written for D&D with it and it works.

I will check this one asap. It is not entirely heroic-fantasy, is it?

It works with everything. There is a guy who compiles all the different variants that people have constructed along with the base construct as well.

It has grown huge in the last few years. Here is the most recent 2 volume collection:

Vol I: http://www.mediafire.com/file/sqhla8ekwaek3re/Microlite20-RPG-Collection-2012-Volume-I.pdf

Vol II: http://www.mediafire.com/file/u6fn6wc0vk6ii63/Microlite20-RPG-Collection-2012-Volume-II.pdf

And here's a look at what's inside:

[...]

Anything you can imagine you can play. Mechs vs Cthulhu in the Weird West with Goblins? Check

(NOTE: They missed a typo.- Microlite20 Cthulthu [p 703] )

Great. Will check asap.