Sisters of Battle Question

By NoxImperitor, in Dark Heresy Gamemasters

Posted at

Hello I am new to the forums so I do hope this is in the correct location.

I am currently writing out an investigation that my party will be going through at sometime. A little background information is needed on both the adventure and the party.

Party:

1. They are very combat oriented and don't normally think of investigating anything unless it is spoon fed to them from the start through me.

2. Everything CAN be solved by violence.

3. The party is made of Sister of Battle, Tech-Priest, Psyker, and a Guardsman, and an Assassin. There is a npc adept that I use to help them anywhere non-combat wise, but I don't want the npc to be the only way they advance.

Campaign:

1. An Adeptus Arbites precinct house was bombed and they are sent to investigate why it happened.

2. Through the investigation, they will have to confront a bishop about the Frateris Militia possibly being behind it. The Arbites will have been doing an investigation alongside the party, and so will burst in during the party's "interrogation" of the bishop. Through means I have yet not fully thought out, the Arbites and the Militia with the bishop will get into a scuffle and shots will be fired.

Now to the question: Would a Sister of Battle be obligated by Imperial Creed/Moral Duty/etc to help protect the Bishop from the Arbiters? Especially if he calls upon the faithful to protect him from the heathens.

The Arbites are not corrupted, just doing what they see as right to avenge the death of several officers.

I am trying to change the tone of the party to be less combat oriented, which I will admit I have been feeding from the first couple of sessions.

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Is the bishop corrupt, and if so does the Sister know about this? If both of these questions can be answered with "yes," the Sister is under no obligation to protect him -- the Sororitas may be the militant arm of the Ministorum, but they are loyal to the Emperor above any mere human. In fact, she would probably be happy to kill the heretic with her own two hands.

If the bishop is not corrupt (or if he hides his corruption very well), things get more complicated. While theoretically the Arbiters have the authority to put any Imperial citizen under arrest, a particularly devoted Sister would certainly defend a senior Ecclesiarch from anyone who tries to harm him. How does this Sister feel about the bishop in question, and how likely are the Arbiters to use lethal force against the bishop if he resists arrest?

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The Bishop is not corrupt, it would be the militia. As for the Sister...well, the player is very out going roleplay wise, he knows a decent amount of Warhammer 40k lore, but I am the grand library of a lot of the lore they go off of. They have not met before so as for disposition, I would guess normal loyalty to a higher ranking church member. I am hoping they will meet once or twice before this encounter, so their dispositions might be on par to friendly if I do it right.

As for the Arbiters, they would not use lethal force on him....however, beanbag shot to drop him, looking like a lethal shot to anyone not knowing the shot fired is a different matter.

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As I play DH, relations between Imperial organisations are determined by the power and influence of each. Arbites are indeed the police but while they can use enhanced police investigation & detainment procedures against regular imperial citizens, a bishop is way above their paygrade. A senior arbites officer (judge or higher) would have to ok that and he would make **** sure there was evidence to justify the arrest.

While not noted for their non-violent detainment techniques, they do have sophisticated means of capturing suspects, mostly shock/stun weapons and grapplehawks etc. Nothing so pedestrian as bean bags IMO.

As to the Sister of Battle, it could be played anyway. WH40K is not known for its internal consistency ;) .

My take on it would be that she has been detached and thus the bishop is not in her chain of command nor her responsibility. Its not as if she would otherwise follow the orders of any church official that simply walked by over her inquisitor, would she?

So why start following church orders now?

On the other hand, she is part of an organisation that provides militant protection to the church so she would feel some responsibility due to her background. That would likely translate into determining if the arbites have a proper warrant and if they do, then encouraging the bishop to adhere to imperial law. If they don't have a proper warrant, trying to intimidate the arbites in backing down might be feasible. But again, its not her assignment to protect this bishop. And its not as if she happens to be in a shrine suddenly under attack by chaos heretics. Then, she would be honour bound to act. But protecting a church official from imperial authorities.....? No.

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I reckon that sounds like an interesting choice that could go either way especially if the Bishop calls on her to protect him directly.

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Ooh, a topic to my liking.


The player of the Battle Sister is in a tough spot here, since in this case, the Orders Militant' mandates could sway her either way:


"The Adepta Sororitas also forms an internal policing force for the Ecclesiarchy. The Battle Sisters may be despatched to deal with a troublesome Cardinal or Confessor, either by their mere presence or by forcibly removing them from power. Cardinals also use the Battle Sisters to enforce tithe requirements on their diocese and to remind their followers of their duties to the Adeptus Ministorum."

- WD #211


This can be summed up as two conflicting directives:


Protect the Church, the clergy, and the faithful .. in this order. Battle Sisters are occasionally assigned to protect important holy sites, or provide personal protection for influential Ministorum clerics by escorting them through warzones or interfering with attempts to assassinate them. If need be, they also aid in enforcing the Ecclesiarchal tithe from the various Imperial dioceses.


"The Adepta Sororitas also provide the protectors of the Ecclesiarchy's priesthood, and they are tasked with providing them with any military support they may need. At the behest of such powerful figures, the Sisters of Battle are called upon to escort hierarchs through war zones, eliminate heretical leaders, or launch surgical strikes to recover long-lost artefacts from enemy hands."

- 6E Rulebook: The Sisters of Battle


Root out corruption where it festers . Since the Convocation of Nephilim following the dark days of the Age of Apostasy, the Orders Militant collaborate with the Inquisition's Ordo Hereticus in policing the Adeptus Ministorum, both serving its officials as well as controlling them - and relentlessly removing any who are discovered to betray the Imperial Creed for their own petty ambitions or, even worse, pay fealty to the Ruinous Powers.


"The types of operations embarked upon by the joint forces of the Ordo Hereticus and the Adepta Sororitas are often sensitive, and have at times amounted to little more than barely-sanctioned assassinations. The most common mission is a rapid, surgical strike against a religious group. Often, the target of the attack will be a member of the Ministorum, perhaps a Cardinal or Missionary whose teachings have strayed too far from the accepted orthodoxy, forcing his excommunication. Such an individual may have a sizeable following, and the Ordo will tehrefore expect stiff resistance to their attack. In such a situation it is imperative that the attack is carried out in secrecy; no witnesses are left alive to spread doubt, and no martyrs to the cause are allowed to inspire further rebellion."

- CS #49: Ordo Hereticus Strike Force


What the player character knows of the incident at hand will be important, though her personality should be considered as well. For example, going by WD #383, the Sisters from the Order of the Valorous Heart are particularly sceptical of the clergy's power, and so may tend towards easier suspicion than, say, a Sister from the somewhat more hot-headed Bloody Rose. Even though regulations and training doctrines between the Orders are uniform, their individual Founding Saints all inspire different qualities in their followers... Needless to say, the player may already have an opinion on their character regarding such details, but if not, the Order's background could provide some inspiration.


Ultimately, the way I see it, the chief decisive factor will be the encounter between the Bishop and the Arbites. Should the Marshal leading the troop present a viable argument, possibly even evidence, the Sister should most likely feel compelled to side with them. If, however, they just kick down the door and a firefight erupts before the character's opinion can be swayed this way, I would expect a Sister to side with the Bishop (regardless of whether or not this might go against official policies).

tl;dr: it depends on who is shooting first. And possibly whether the party will have managed to squeeze out a few answers from the suspect before gak is going down, i.e. whether suspicion has been cast on the Bishop or not.



(disclaimer: all of the above is based solely on GW's own fluff; contradictions to details in FFG's own material may or may not exist)

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The way I have it written out so far is that the party will arrive ahead of the Arbites while the Bishop is overseeing the yearly militia training. They will have a set amount of time to ask questions (basically 2 minutes right now) to get as many of their questions asked as they can. Then, Arbiters, with help from local enforcers, will surround the militia and hold them at gun point. Since it is a training day/week, each militia will have their own gun, so its basically an army of police vs an army of militia at this point. The Arbiters will try to persuade the Bishop to come with them, and the party will get X time to defuse the situation. If it is not resolved when the timer hits zero, somewhere, someone, will fire a shot that starts the failure.

High stress and high stakes just means biggest holes to fall down into.

Any suggestions for altering it? Or does it sound reasonable at this stage?

Also, the player does not really follow an order, it is more personal guides.

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Sounds very reasonable. Especially if the militia has been suitably aroused during their training and the local arbites are known for their callous, violent attitude....

Just make sure to describe the scene properly. Have the arbites act arrogantly. Have the militia shout defiance and turn into a mob thronging around the bishop instead of neat, ordered lines.

That way, a sudden shot as someone panicks or becomes belligerent does not come as a surprise to the players and as the scene hots up, they have ample opportunity to defuse the situation before the fatal shot occurs and all hell brakes loose.

I would play it as an extended test requiring a number of MoS, ideally from several skills so all players can contribute. Imperial Creed, Imperial Law, Intimidate, Charm, Logic are all good examples...

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Well, I think normally such a situation would be solved on a more political and high-up level intead of Arbites coming at gun-point to "avenge". Especially since the Arbits target (i.e. the Bishop) is of a rather high profile. At least as long as there is no imminent danger or risk of flight by the Bishop.

The novel Crossfire is a nice read in regard to "overlapping jurisdiction", especially between Arbites and Ministorum. IIRC the Ministorum has preference in regard to more "spiritual" transgressions (of their own) and the Arbites in regard to more mundane and "worldy" transgressions.

To summarize, I would expect an Arbites Marshall to contact the local Sororitas before trying to apprehend a member of the Ecclesiarchy and the Commissariat before apprehending an Imperial Guard or Navy officer etc.

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I love this scenario, and wish I was in it. It sounds absolutely glorious, but I agree with the previous posters that this could go either way, depending on what the Sororitas in question believes about the Bishop at the point of the encounter.

Depending on her experiences or position within the hierarchy of the Sororitas, she may not even dare act out of fear that she is making a mistake. But if she's basically a cannoness, she might be more likely to call her own shots. There's also the possibility that she realizes that as an Acolyte or Throne Agent, her mission is more important than any mistake she might make, and that she has a small degree of immunity in this case, whereas otherwise she might defer to the judgement of a superior, if at all possible.

My immediate personal call, however, is that unless she has concrete reason to believe that the Bishop is corrupt, or the top of a pyramid of lies and deceit, discrediting the robes he wear and tarnishing the Church with his very breaths, she would fight tooth-and-nail for the Bishop until he's proven (at least in her mind, if not by Conclave or Court) guilty. Believing that the Adeptus Arbites just killed not just one of the faithful, but a Bishop, amongst the holiest of the Ecclesiarchy, might send her into a near-uncontrollable rage.

Prepare that Frenzy Elite Advance.

[...]

To summarize, I would expect an Arbites Marshall to contact the local Sororitas before trying to apprehend a member of the Ecclesiarchy and the Commissariat before apprehending an Imperial Guard or Navy officer etc.


Based on what you said, and the excellent (amazing) post by Lynata , my conclusion would be the opposite in this case (not in the case of the Commissariat/IG/IN).

The Adeptus Arbites should (not making conclusions whether they would or not, as there are many views on this and many potential circumstances, ultimately coming down to individuals and their judgement (or lack thereof) definitely not contact the local (if there even is such a thing as a "local") Sororitas, simply because there is no way to tell if this wouldn't simply end up tipping the Bishop or the militia off, or trigger their (or their Cannoness') interpretations of their standing orders to protect the Church.

Especially since it seems that the Bishop hasn't actually done anything yet(?) and is innocent (as much as anyone commanding a militia that gets corrupted can be considered innocent when failing in their duties).

The act of showing up without warning or contacting others serves a purpose in law enforcement in the future just as it does today. Taking someone into custody without warning potentially throws criminals into disarray, and prevents them from tidying up their stories and tying up loose ends.

Now, showing up in the middle of the militia's combat drills is terrible timing on their part, and I'd argue that someone should probably be lashed for that particular screwup, not setting up proper surveillance on the target beforehand, etc, but even in this case there are reasonable explanations, such as the Enforcer Captain being a green rookie that misinterpreted the Judge's orders to arrest or apprehend the Bishop "immediately!", or them simply not expecting a refusal or violence to break out ("after all, we're just taking the esteemed Bishop in for routine questioning...").

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As an addendum regarding "Crossfire":
Yes, all of this also depends heavily on the sources the GM and their players are "used to" and hence have shaped their interpretation of the setting by.
Having read Crossfire, it certainly gives a nice idea on how to approach such themes, and might even be recommendable to provide inspiration. At the same time, the novel also contradicts Codex fluff on some few details, such as when it gives the impression that the Sororitas indeed have a convent on just about any world (and thus are even available to contact for such matters). As I tend to stick to GW's idea of the setting rather than any licensed material, I would thus expect the Arbites to be "on their own" most of the time, and thus having to decide in a pinch when to interfere, and when to wait several weeks before investigators from the Ministorum arrive. A rather tough decision that likely hinges a lot on how urgent the infraction seems!
However, it also needs to be pointed out that there is no such thing as a "singular truth" in 40k, at least not on this level of detail. GW is quite okay with conflicting information in the various sources, and no product overrides another - so one should certainly not dismiss Crossfire just because it deviates from the information presented in a Codex. Indeed, for the purpose of Dark Heresy, it may actually be the more compatible source, as the Blood of Martyrs supplement now seems to render DH's version of the Sororitas much, much closer to novels like Crossfire than Codex fluff.
The existence of the various contradictions are still something to keep in mind, though - and it may be best to get an idea of how familiar the various players in the group are with which sources of 40k, so that a common ground may be found that (hopefully) does not go against anyone's interpretation.
tl;dr: don't feel you have to conform to every detail just because it has been printed in some official product - this includes the Codex references in my first post. contradictions and differing interpretations are part of the game.
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The Adeptus Arbites should (not making conclusions whether they would or not, as there are many views on this and many potential circumstances, ultimately coming down to individuals and their judgement (or lack thereof) definitely not contact the local (if there even is such a thing as a "local") Sororitas, simply because there is no way to tell if this wouldn't simply end up tipping the Bishop or the militia off, or trigger their (or their Cannoness') interpretations of their standing orders to protect the Church.

Especially since it seems that the Bishop hasn't actually done anything yet(?) and is innocent (as much as anyone commanding a militia that gets corrupted can be considered innocent when failing in their duties).

The act of showing up without warning or contacting others serves a purpose in law enforcement in the future just as it does today. Taking someone into custody without warning potentially throws criminals into disarray, and prevents them from tidying up their stories and tying up loose ends.

Now, showing up in the middle of the militia's combat drills is terrible timing on their part, and I'd argue that someone should probably be lashed for that particular screwup, not setting up proper surveillance on the target beforehand, etc, but even in this case there are reasonable explanations, such as the Enforcer Captain being a green rookie that misinterpreted the Judge's orders to arrest or apprehend the Bishop "immediately!", or them simply not expecting a refusal or violence to break out ("after all, we're just taking the esteemed Bishop in for routine questioning...").

Yes, I like this! It really fits to the political game, the latent internecine rivalry, and the "sense of entitlement" between the different Imperial Adepta. I too like to think that an Arbites Marshal is concerned chiefly with order being preserved in his or her precinct, and if it bothers someone on the receiving end ... tough gak! ;)

paximperialis.jpg

Edited by Lynata
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even in this case there are reasonable explanations, such as the Enforcer Captain being a green rookie that misinterpreted the Judge's orders to arrest or apprehend the Bishop "immediately!", or them simply not expecting a refusal or violence to break out ("after all, we're just taking the esteemed Bishop in for routine questioning...").

"Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?"

As stated above, the Sororitas are supposed to protect the church, not necessarily individual priests. Usually , that's one and the same thing, but only usually .

They are, after all, there to confront him about their suspicions, and an overly large and overly active frateris militia is generally frowned upon. It is, after all, pushing the intent of the decree passive much like the sororitas are.

That said, they're not just going to sit by. Ethically, she's probably obligated to see he doesn't get randomly killed in a firefight, but not to start slotting arbites (who are, after all, also theoretically servants of the emperor) just on his say-so.

Ideally, they should try and intervene, stop the fight, restore a guns-pointed-every-which-way mexican stand-off, then try and figure out who's in the right.